2016 Democratic Thread

[Soxbadger]

Personally, no, but I have two female friends who have, got told they were pregnant (when they weren't) and told they needed to have an abortion ASAP before anybody found out they were pregnant because that would ruin their lives.

 

That seems implausible. From personal experience I know that they go over all options (including adoption).

 

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/pre...w-what/adoption

 

There is a reason why hearsay testimony is inadmissible in a court, its because its unreliable. Just look at the facts that were told to you 1) they were told they were pregnant and 2) they were told they needed an abortion asap. Abortions are not performed ASAP, abortions are almost always performed after the 5th week of pregnancy. At that point a false positive (as opposed to a false negative) is extremely unlikely because a false positive requires hcg level to be above a certain level. False negatives are common, false positives are extremely rare (i think its something like 1%).

 

So the chances that you have 2 friends who both had false positives and were both told incorrect medical information is almost nil. It seems more that these 2 individuals have an agenda and have decided to sensationalize their experience.

[cabiness42]

I definitely believe that that actually happened. Twice.

 

You don't believe left-wing organizations ever do anything wrong so I'm not really concerned about what you believe.

[StrangeSox]

Regale us with some more definitely not completely made-up stories about the horrors of Planned Parenthood separate friends of yours experienced and shared with you.

[cabiness42]

That seems implausible. From personal experience I know that they go over all options (including adoption).

 

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/pre...w-what/adoption

 

There is a reason why hearsay testimony is inadmissible in a court, its because its unreliable. Just look at the facts that were told to you 1) they were told they were pregnant and 2) they were told they needed an abortion asap. Abortions are not performed ASAP, abortions are almost always performed after the 5th week of pregnancy. At that point a false positive (as opposed to a false negative) is extremely unlikely because a false positive requires hcg level to be above a certain level. False negatives are common, false positives are extremely rare (i think its something like 1%).

 

So the chances that you have 2 friends who both had false positives and were both told incorrect medical information is almost nil. It seems more that these 2 individuals have an agenda and have decided to sensationalize their experience.

 

First one had no agenda, actually thought she was pregnant and scared s***less. Second one had an agenda based on the first one's story. If you're selling a fake abortion, it doesn't really matter if it's ASAP and/or after the 5th week, does it?

 

Not plausible to you, because you know a ton of things about pregnancy and abortion that a 20-year old woman who's just been 4 days late for her period for the first time in her life probably doesn't know.

[cabiness42]

Regale us with some more definitely not completely made-up stories about the horrors of Planned Parenthood separate friends of yours experienced and shared with you.

 

Like I said before, I really don't give a f*** what you do or don't believe. It changes my day in no way.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Personally, no, but I have two female friends who have, got told they were pregnant (when they weren't) and told they needed to have an abortion ASAP before anybody found out they were pregnant because that would ruin their lives.

 

This sounds like some serious fraud/malpractice. I hope authorities were contacted.

[cabiness42]

This sounds like some serious fraud/malpractice. I hope authorities were contacted.

 

I don't think any criminal charges got filed. I'm guessing there was some sort of settlement though, because at some point both started refusing to discuss the matter at all to anybody.

[Soxbadger]

First one had no agenda, actually thought she was pregnant and scared s***less. Second one had an agenda based on the first one's story. If you're selling a fake abortion, it doesn't really matter if it's ASAP and/or after the 5th week, does it?

 

Not plausible to you, because you know a ton of things about pregnancy and abortion that a 20-year old woman who's just been 4 days late for her period for the first time in her life probably doesn't know.

 

I know that people lie. And I know that you wouldnt get a false positive after 4 days of missing your period. You are supposed to wait 7 days minimum, because you would always get a negative under 7 days. So again, what is more likely.

 

http://contraception.about.com/od/contrace...p/bloodtest.htm

 

Blood Test Results:

 

Blood tests performed at a doctor’s office tend to have a 98 to 99 percent accuracy rate.

 

These tests can be conducted seven days after you ovulate[ (which is about a week before your period is due) and still provide accurate results. As with urine pregnancy tests, it is possible to end up with false results (both negative and positive) from a blood pregnancy test.

 

False negative results (test is negative, but you are actually pregnant) usually occur if the test was performed too early. This is because there may not be enough hCG in the blood to detect a pregnancy.

 

False positive results (test is positive, but you are not pregnant) may appear if you are taking a medication that contains hCG.

 

I believe science over people. People tend to lie. Not trying to be a jerk, but Im pretty positive that If I pressed these 2 girls, the evidence would support that there is no possible way they had the exact same experience. The part that gives it away is the false positive.

 

 

 

[Soxbadger]

This sounds like some serious fraud/malpractice. I hope authorities were contacted.

 

 

I don't think any criminal charges got filed. I'm guessing there was some sort of settlement though, because at some point both started refusing to discuss the matter at all to anybody.

 

Malpractice requires damage. What was their damage? It would be like saying I was told I had cancer, I went to get chemo and they found out I didnt. How is that actionable? The answer is, its not.

 

The reason they stopped talking about it is because they made it up.

 

The simplest answer is generally the right answer. I think that's occam's razer.

[cabiness42]

I know that people lie. And I know that you wouldnt get a false positive after 4 days of missing your period. You are supposed to wait 7 days minimum, because you would always get a negative under 7 days. So again, what is more likely.

 

http://contraception.about.com/od/contrace...p/bloodtest.htm

 

 

 

I believe science over people. People tend to lie. Not trying to be a jerk, but Im pretty positive that If I pressed these 2 girls, the evidence would support that there is no possible way they had the exact same experience. The part that gives it away is the false positive.

 

Yet you are assuming that these two girls are lying and yet somehow it's impossible that PP employees would lie.

 

These girls, at least the first one, wouldn't necessarily have known ANY of the facts you've just presented. I also don't get where you're going with the "false positive" bit. I don't think they were even given real tests. Either that or just lied to about the test results.

[cabiness42]

Malpractice requires damage. What was their damage? It would be like saying I was told I had cancer, I went to get chemo and they found out I didnt. How is that actionable? The answer is, its not.

 

The reason they stopped talking about it is because they made it up.

 

The simplest answer is generally the right answer. I think that's occam's razer.

 

Making their stories public, and being able to put names and facts to them, is actionable. An action that would be worth a sum of money for PP to avoid. Perfect example being that I have to present their stories without proof which leaves plenty of room for doubt.

[StrangeSox]

See, that's definitely the least plausible part. There's a PP clinic that routinely lies to women about false-positive pregnancy tests and attempts to pressure them into getting an abortion NOW? And somehow the best anti-PP activists can do are those terribly edited and misleading videos that don't actually show any wrongdoing when this sort of stuff is out there?

[CrimsonWeltall]

See, that's definitely the least plausible part. There's a PP clinic that routinely lies to women about false-positive pregnancy tests and attempts to pressure them into getting an abortion NOW? And somehow the best anti-PP activists can do are those terribly edited and misleading videos that don't actually show any wrongdoing when this sort of stuff is out there?

 

They just throw hush-money at the highly principled pro-life women and it gets covered up!

[cabiness42]

See, that's definitely the least plausible part. There's a PP clinic that routinely lies to women about false-positive pregnancy tests and attempts to pressure them into getting an abortion NOW? And somehow the best anti-PP activists can do are those terribly edited and misleading videos that don't actually show any wrongdoing when this sort of stuff is out there?

 

This was 16 years ago before camera phones were common. Not sure if they would dare try the same thing today.

[StrangeSox]

Hidden cameras, audio recorders, investigative journalism and strong opposition to PP all existed in the year 2000.

[Soxbadger]

Yet you are assuming that these two girls are lying and yet somehow it's impossible that PP employees would lie.

 

These girls, at least the first one, wouldn't necessarily have known ANY of the facts you've just presented. I also don't get where you're going with the "false positive" bit. I don't think they were even given real tests. Either that or just lied to about the test results.

 

I am not assuming anything. I am basing my opinion on the facts that you have presented to me. Now I guess its possible that you are lying, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you were just merely parroting what 2 other people told you.

 

The reason I brought up "false positive" is that your original post said they were told they were pregnant. That means they were given a blood test and told that the blood test was positive. After they were told it was positive, they were then told they needed to get an abortion asap. You said that this happened 4 days after she missed her period. You said that this same thing happened to 2 different people.

 

It's just unclear what the motive for the PP people to lie. In my experience even the most adamant supporters of baby killing arent out there actively trying to convince other people to kill babies, they are just saying "I want the right to do it." Conversely people who are anti-baby killing are the ones who are trying to tell other people what they can or can not do.

 

So after examining the facts, I believe that it is more likely that those 2 girls created a fictitious event. For what reason? I dont know, I can definitely speculate though.

 

(edit)

 

In terms of the actionable statement. I am not sure what you are saying. Medical Mal requires certain elements to be met. One of them is damages. There is no liability if there is no damage.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Soxbadger

[cabiness42]

I am not assuming anything. I am basing my opinion on the facts that you have presented to me. Now I guess its possible that you are lying, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you were just merely parroting what 2 other people told you.

 

The reason I brought up "false positive" is that your original post said they were told they were pregnant. That means they were given a blood test and told that the blood test was positive. After they were told it was positive, they were then told they needed to get an abortion asap. You said that this happened 4 days after she missed her period. You said that this same thing happened to 2 different people.

 

It's just unclear what the motive for the PP people to lie. In my experience even the most adamant supporters of baby killing arent out there actively trying to convince other people to kill babies, they are just saying "I want the right to do it." Conversely people who are anti-baby killing are the ones who are trying to tell other people what they can or can not do.

 

So after examining the facts, I believe that it is more likely that those 2 girls created a fictitious event. For what reason? I dont know, I can definitely speculate though.

 

Just to be clear, the "4 days after missed period" was only the first girl. She was very naive about a bunch of things and really thought she was pregnant. The second woman knew she wasn't pregnant.

 

Their motive to lie is pretty much everybody's #1 motive to lie: $$$. I'd imagine there's a nice profit on an abortion if you can charge somebody for one and not actually have to do one.

[Soxbadger]

Just to be clear, the "4 days after missed period" was only the first girl. She was very naive about a bunch of things and really thought she was pregnant. The second woman knew she wasn't pregnant.

 

Their motive to lie is pretty much everybody's #1 motive to lie: $$$. I'd imagine there's a nice profit on an abortion if you can charge somebody for one and not actually have to do one.

 

So now you are saying that PP and their doctors are fraudulently stating that people need abortions when they really dont?

 

Come on man. Look at your statement, what is more likely:

 

1) A girl who is scared/worried creates a lie because she is scared/worried, maybe thinks she can make money off of it;

 

2) A company is just flat out lying, creating fraudulent test result, so that they can do unnecessary procedures, so that they can make money, which if they are caught would end the Dr's career.

 

 

And so now Im somewhat confused. If the second person knew she wasnt pregnant, why was she going to PP to get a blood pregnancy test?

 

 

 

[CrimsonWeltall]

And so now Im somewhat confused. If the second person knew she wasnt pregnant, why was she going to PP to get a blood pregnancy test?

 

It sounded like she did it to confirm the first woman's story by having it happen to her so she could out PP as evil liars...but she hushed with a settlement too?

[cabiness42]

So now you are saying that PP and their doctors are fraudulently stating that people need abortions when they really dont?

 

Come on man. Look at your statement, what is more likely:

 

1) A girl who is scared/worried creates a lie because she is scared/worried, maybe thinks she can make money off of it;

 

2) A company is just flat out lying, creating fraudulent test result, so that they can do unnecessary procedures, so that they can make money, which if they are caught would end the Dr's career.

 

 

And so now Im somewhat confused. If the second person knew she wasnt pregnant, why was she going to PP to get a blood pregnancy test?

 

I knew the first girl very well. There's no way she was lying about it. In fact, at the time she told me about it, she still thought she was pregnant. It took two OTC pregnancy tests and a visit to a non-PP clinic to convince her that she wasn't. The second girl I didn't know very well. Can't speak to her motives.

[Big Hurtin]

They're all terrifying in their own ways. Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Hillary, Bernie. The least terrifying is Kasich but I'm not really thrilled with him either.

 

This guy?

 

 

[Balta1701]

<!--quoteo(post=3306576:date=Feb 23, 2016 -> 01:19 PM:name=HickoryHuskers)-->

<!--quotec-->They're all terrifying in their own ways. Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Hillary, Bernie. The least terrifying is Kasich but I'm not really thrilled with him either.

 

This guy?

To be fair, this one is a bit of a quote mine.

[Soxbadger]

I knew the first girl very well. There's no way she was lying about it. In fact, at the time she told me about it, she still thought she was pregnant. It took two OTC pregnancy tests and a visit to a non-PP clinic to convince her that she wasn't. The second girl I didn't know very well. Can't speak to her motives.

 

To me this seems to suggest that she may have been under a lot of stress, and in situations like that it is possible that people do not accurately remember the events that took place.

 

I have never met anyone who wants more abortions or who wants other people to get abortions, I have only met people who want the option available. It is entirely possible that it occurred, I just believe it is extremely unlikely. But even for the sake of argument, if i was to 100% believe it happened, I would still believe that it was an isolated individual. PP discusses a variety of options that include adoptions and keeping the child.

[Balta1701]

Isn't it time we stop pretending that Planned Parenthood is the only organization in the country that provides health services to women?

 

 

Get the f*** out of here with your facts...this is a political forum, we run on words like "rhetoric" and "divisive".

Ok, someone wants facts? (knuckles crack).

The public defunding of Planned Parenthood in Texas may have led to a decrease in highly effective forms of contraceptive services and an increase in Medicaid-paid childbirths among women who previously used injectable contraception, according to a peer-reviewed study by University of Texas at Austin researchers.

 

The study, published in The New England Journal of Medicine on Feb. 3, used administrative records to assess rates of the provision of contraceptives, as well as deliveries (childbirth) covered by Medicaid from 2011 through 2014 — before and after Texas excluded Planned Parenthood affiliates from a publicly funded women’s health program.

 

The researchers found that since the exclusion, 35 percent fewer claims were made for long-acting, reversible contraceptives, such as implants and intrauterine devices; and 31 percent fewer claims were made for injectable contraceptives, such as Depo-Provera. In contrast, no significant changes were found in the provision of short-acting hormonal contraceptives, such as contraceptive pills, patches and rings.

 

“Providers who are mission-driven and have the requisite experience and knowledge are critical in providing the most effective methods of contraception — IUDs, implants and injectables,” said Joseph Potter, director of the Texas Policy Evaluation Project and professor in the university’s Population Research Center. “From a demographic perspective, this is important because these methods dramatically decrease unintended pregnancy. We also have accumulating evidence of an unmet demand for these methods in Texas.”

 

The study also noted a 27 percent increase in the rate of deliveries paid for by Medicaid among women who received injectable contraceptives prior to funding being barred for Planned Parenthood.

 

“This study isolates the effect of the exclusion not only on the delivery of services, but also on subsequent deliveries paid by Medicaid,” said lead author Amanda Stevenson, a Ph.D. candidate in sociology. "We examined differences between counties that had Planned Parenthood affiliates versus those that did not to determine how the public was affected once affiliates could no longer use public funds to provide contraceptive services."

 

In 2013, the Women’s Health Program — which was 90 percent federally funded as a Medicaid waiver program — was replaced by the wholly state-funded Texas Women’s Health Program. Both programs provided services to female, legal Texas residents ages 18 to 44 who had incomes at or below 185 percent of the federal poverty level.

 

“The U.S. continues to have higher rates of unintended pregnancies than most rich nations, and we know that U.S. and Texas women face barriers as they try to access preventative services,” Stevenson said. “It’s a public health issue that Texas women struggle to achieve their reproductive goals.”

 

Stevenson and Potter co-authored the study, “Effect of removal of Planned Parenthood from Texas women’s health program,” with Imelda Flores-Vazquez and Richard Allgeyer from the Texas Health and Human Services Commission, and attorney Pete Schenkkan of Graves, Dougherty, Hearon and Moody, with funding provided by the Susan T. Buffett Foundation.

So, based on your desire for facts, I'm going to assume you now are a strong supporter of continued funding as you agree its presence as a major provider is an effective use of taxpayer funds, right? Otherwise, you're the one replying "get the f*** out of here with your facts". Well, you and the state of Texas. Texas responded to the publication of this report by firing the person who did the work.

[StrangeSox]

To me this seems to suggest that she may have been under a lot of stress, and in situations like that it is possible that people do not accurately remember the events that took place.

 

Not directly related to anything in this thread, but I watched this episode of NOVA last night:

 

Memory Hackers

 

The way our memory seems to work is pretty fascinating.