2016 Democratic Thread

[Balta1701]

I don't think this is totally accurate. Trump benefited from a lot of split votes.

 

There is a large contingent of Trump supporters than I would not like in the party, that's true. But I don't think it's what the party "is," just like I don't think Clinton is what the democratic party "is."

I'm totally ok with you calling the Democratic party a fairly centrist party with an overly aggressive foreign policy that tends to beat out the anti-wall street and anti-militaristic factions.

 

That doesn't represent every Republican obviously...but it's enough of a plurality that it easily won their primaries, forced the otherwise "respectable" candidates to declare that they were afraid of 5 year old refugees, and the party cannot win elections without it. That's what I mean by saying this is who that party is - it's a large enough fraction that the rest of the party was easily stomped by it.

[lostfan]

The GOP has always been aware of those people and it's always made them uncomfortable, they've just been able to keep them at arm's length for the most part with their usual combination of controlling media coverage and big-money fundraising. The impulse for GOP primary voters has always been to want "the most conservative" candidate (whatever the f*** that means) because contenders like McCain and Romney lose by being not conservative enough," not because Obama actually beat both of them. The professional Republicans know that's bulls***, so they prefer someone like Bush or Rubio. Trump was immune to both fundraising being denied and the ability to get media coverage, so they broke through. It's going to be hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube, because his fans (at least for now) are loyal to HIM, not the party. That's why Paul Ryan is twisting in the wind and Cruz is flirting with career suicide. Trump doesn't really need Ryan, but Ryan needs him.

[RockRaines]

I don't think this is totally accurate. Trump benefited from a lot of split votes.

 

There is a large contingent of Trump supporters than I would not like in the party, that's true. But I don't think it's what the party "is," just like I don't think Clinton is what the democratic party "is."

The party can be pretty diverse but both have their fringe groups and the racist religious zealots are for sure part of the base that is for Trump. Many of the republicans I know do not like that part of the party at all, but its still there.

[lostfan]

Adding to my other post: People (Republicans too) keep saying Reince Priebus is a weak leader, and maybe he is, but what's he supposed to do? Trump won the primaries fair and square, and convincingly so. He can't just disavow his party's nominee as the party chairman, the voters will go into open revolt and it would destroy the party.

[StrangeSox]

Adding to my other post: People (Republicans too) keep saying Reince Priebus is a weak leader, and maybe he is, but what's he supposed to do? Trump won the primaries fair and square, and convincingly so. He can't just disavow his party's nominee as the party chairman, the voters will go into open revolt and it would destroy the party.

 

He could have told him he wasn't running from day 1, but that carried its own risks.

Edited October 11, 2016 by StrangeSox

[NorthSideSox72]

The GOP has always been aware of those people and it's always made them uncomfortable, they've just been able to keep them at arm's length for the most part with their usual combination of controlling media coverage and big-money fundraising. The impulse for GOP primary voters has always been to want "the most conservative" candidate (whatever the f*** that means) because contenders like McCain and Romney lose by being not conservative enough," not because Obama actually beat both of them. The professional Republicans know that's bulls***, so they prefer someone like Bush or Rubio. Trump was immune to both fundraising being denied and the ability to get media coverage, so they broke through. It's going to be hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube, because his fans (at least for now) are loyal to HIM, not the party. That's why Paul Ryan is twisting in the wind and Cruz is flirting with career suicide. Trump doesn't really need Ryan, but Ryan needs him.

This nails it.

 

[southsider2k5]

Adding to my other post: People (Republicans too) keep saying Reince Priebus is a weak leader, and maybe he is, but what's he supposed to do? Trump won the primaries fair and square, and convincingly so. He can't just disavow his party's nominee as the party chairman, the voters will go into open revolt and it would destroy the party.

 

This is the one thing the Republicans do right. They aren't afraid to demand more of their party and candidates, even if it means losses on the short term. And honestly, if it means the end of this version of the GOP, it opens up a big middle for a new party to waltz into.

[StrangeSox]

How successful, if at all, does anyone think Trump/Breitbart/Alt-right will be at splitting the GOP and doing lasting damage?

 

 

Unrelated funny letter about VOTE FRAUD

 

I do wonder how much intimidation we'll see at the polls on election day, though. Trump's already given lots of "wink wink nudge nudge" not-so-subtle speeches about it.

Edited October 11, 2016 by StrangeSox

[CrimsonWeltall]

How successful, if at all, does anyone think Trump/Breitbart/Alt-right will be at splitting the GOP and doing lasting damage?

 

Almost no success at splitting the GOP.

 

Significant "success" at doing damage with women, minorities, independents for ~10 years.

[StrangeSox]

Related, new polling for the DCCC finds that GOP lawmakers are really in a damned if you do, damned if you don't spot regarding Trump. Generic congressional ballot is D+7 right now. If the specific candidate in questions supports trump, it's D+12. If they denounce Trump, it's....D+12. Independent/swing voters/soft support won't like it if you support Trump, Republican base won't like it if you dump him.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-l...m=.a15ba0b691b2

[greg775]

I can't believe some of the comments on here from Democrats on this thread. Do you staunch Democrats ever look in the mirror and realize Republicans are fellow Americans? Some people act like Republicans are the scum of the earth. We are all in this together. My feeling is the enemies are not members of a certain party but the 1 percenters and the business leaders who dump on the little guy every day of every week (middle class) to give those one percenters cars, boats, mansions, vacation mansions. Trump and Hillary are both 1 percenters. The middle class gets hit with declining health benefits, more cost for health benefits, low paying jobs, RIDICULOUS costs for college. We need somebody who cares about the middle class. Hillary and Trump? You are fooling yourselves if you think either one of them care about the middle class.

Edited October 11, 2016 by greg775

[StrangeSox]

no war but class war, comrade

[lostfan]

I can't believe some of the comments on here from Democrats on this thread. Do you staunch Democrats ever look in the mirror and realize Republicans are fellow Americans? Some people act like Republicans are the scum of the earth. We are all in this together. My feeling is the enemies are not members of a certain party but the 1 percenters and the business leaders who dump on the little guy every day of every week (middle class) to give those one percenters cars, boats, mansions, vacation mansions. Trump and Hillary are both 1 percenters. The middle class gets hit with declining health benefits, more cost for health benefits, low paying jobs, RIDICULOUS costs for college. We need somebody who cares about the middle class. Hillary and Trump? You are fooling yourselves if you think either one of them care about the middle class.

You don't know what it's like being a black person reading comments from Trump supporters, do you? Like you have no idea. It's actually terrifying.

[StrangeSox]

This is at the end of the latest extremely Breitbart Trump ad attacking Clinton's health

 

 

I have a feeling things are going to get much, much worse over the next 27 days.

[RockRaines]

You don't know what it's like being a black person reading comments from Trump supporters, do you? Like you have no idea. It's actually terrifying.

They are on CNN blaming rap music for the downfall of "American Values." no joke.

[lostfan]

They are on CNN blaming rap music for the downfall of "American Values." no joke.

Yeah, that one's about standard.

[CrimsonWeltall]

They are on CNN blaming rap music for the downfall of "American Values." no joke.

 

Donald Trump listens to so much rap. You wouldn't even believe it.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Some people act like Republicans are the scum of the earth.

 

No, people act like a PORTION of Republicans are scummy, and unfortunately, that portion is currently dominating that party.

 

{Conservatives (Republicans [Trump supporters {Deplorables} ] ) }

 

We'd all like to see the Republican party nominate someone with intelligence and integrity, even if we don't share all the same political ideals.

[lostfan]

I don't really get into this whole "calling someone what they are is as bad as them being whatever it is they are" game.

 

A significant number of Trump supporters are garbage people who the political process (and the whole country, really) would be much better off without.

[southsider2k5]

I don't really get into this whole "calling someone what they are is as bad as them being whatever it is they are" game.

 

A significant number of Trump supporters are garbage people who the political process (and the whole country, really) would be much better off without.

 

This whole confrontational process (on both sides) has just degraded the entire electoral process. Instead of an intelligent presentation of ideas and ideals, it has degraded into name calling and who can create the most effective meme's. The personal attacks portion of the process has led to the deepening of division in this country and the lack of trust in the other side. Instead of ideas, we get labels. It is historically embarrassing.

 

I am reminded of where we have come since the Gettysburg address. In its time the Address was scandalous for its shortness, many political speeches were hours long events, complete with depth of thought, and sourcing of materials. Today we have gotten to the point where if the text can't fit on a picture, it isn't noticed.

 

Typically I hate the whole good ol' days crap, but this is one way that we really have degraded ourselves. Despite having a world of information instantly at our fingertips, people get their news through memes and headlines. f*** people, wake up.

[lostfan]

This whole confrontational process (on both sides) has just degraded the entire electoral process. Instead of an intelligent presentation of ideas and ideals, it has degraded into name calling and who can create the most effective meme's. The personal attacks portion of the process has led to the deepening of division in this country and the lack of trust in the other side. Instead of ideas, we get labels. It is historically embarrassing.

 

I am reminded of where we have come since the Gettysburg address. In its time the Address was scandalous for its shortness, many political speeches were hours long events, complete with depth of thought, and sourcing of materials. Today we have gotten to the point where if the text can't fit on a picture, it isn't noticed.

 

Typically I hate the whole good ol' days crap, but this is one way that we really have degraded ourselves. Despite having a world of information instantly at our fingertips, people get their news through memes and headlines. f*** people, wake up.

I wrote this on Facebook back in the summer.

 

Thomas Jefferson: everyone, I will write a document outlining the principles for why we are breaking from the Crown, and then we will enumerate these rights-

John Adams: wait, before you get that far you should know that in 240 years no one will actually read these documents.

Jefferson: what? Why? Will we fail with literacy and education?

Adams: Actually no, they are far more literate than us and have access to information at levels unfathomable to us. It's because they only digest information via photographs with short phrases on them.

Benjamin Franklin: he's right. They share these pictures somehow on magical devices constructed from aluminum and glass that fit in their pockets.

Adams: the phrases may or may not even be true. In fact most of them don't really have a point, they just mock politicians they don't like.

Jefferson: f*** it, nevermind, what's the point of this? Let's all just go home. King George can just have our tax money, this isn't worth it.

[StrangeSox]

Carthago delenda est!

 

Pithy political phrases have been with us as long as we've had politics.

[southsider2k5]

I wrote this on Facebook back in the summer.

 

Thomas Jefferson: everyone, I will write a document outlining the principles for why we are breaking from the Crown, and then we will enumerate these rights-

John Adams: wait, before you get that far you should know that in 240 years no one will actually read these documents.

Jefferson: what? Why? Will we fail with literacy and education?

Adams: Actually no, they are far more literate than us and have access to information at levels unfathomable to us. It's because they only digest information via photographs with short phrases on them.

Benjamin Franklin: he's right. They share these pictures somehow on magical devices constructed from aluminum and glass that fit in their pockets.

Adams: the phrases may or may not even be true. In fact most of them don't really have a point, they just mock politicians they don't like.

Jefferson: f*** it, nevermind, what's the point of this? Let's all just go home. King George can just have our tax money, this isn't worth it.

 

Yeah, it reminds of the outrage over protest.

 

"Hey King George, do you mind if we protest by dressing up as Indians and throwing tea from the worlds biggest corporation into Boston Harbor costing both you and them a lot of money?

 

Oh, that is offensive?

 

Nevermind."

[southsider2k5]

Carthago delenda est!

 

Pithy political phrases have been with us as long as we've had politics.

 

The difference is that they have become a substitute for actual intelligent information.

[bmags]

John Quincy Adams spread around that Andrew Jackson had a whore for a mother. The dialogue around the Gettysburg address came after A PORTION OF THE COUNTRY DECLARED WAR AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT TO OWN SLAVES. So yeah I'll take modern incivility with a grain of salt.