2016 Democratic Thread

[greg775]

Thanks, I think? lol

 

Greg,

 

We have both been on this board a long time, and I probably have read a good majority of your posts. I actually think that you are probably and honest and decent person. The problem is that you seem to want to be misinformed. When you are presented with legitimate facts and arguments, you just dont seem to want to actually recognize them. I am not sure why you want to be misinformed, but I do really think that you want what is best for America, not necessarily what is best for yourself, and that is admirable.

 

That being said, I am going to give this a try and we shall see where we get.

 

No one is giving Hillary a pass, no one. But the problem is that in our current system there are 2 legitimate choices for President (I voted for Kronos) but anyways, Hillary won the Democratic primary. I personally did not vote in the Primary, I really wasnt a fan of Hillary or Bernie. If you would have put my feet to the fire and made me vote, I likely would have for Hillary. Not because she is some saint, but because when given the choice of mediocre and terrible, you always vote mediocre. Since this is a sports board, Ill compare it to baseball. If you have 2 batters to pick from and 1 hits .050 and 1 hits .150 I am going to pick the one who hits .150. Not because I think that they are great, but because they are better than the other choice.

 

As to the Bill Clinton stuff. Its nonsense, serious nonsense. I may not be the oldest person in the world, but I can not remember 1 time where the potential first lady and her life were paraded as a part of a campaign. I dont know if Michelle slept with a 100 guys, all I know about Laura Bush is that she was a librarian. Hillary is not Bill, and there is no credible evidence that Hillary even knew what was going on. Further more, the part that really is crazy, is that Trump DEFENDED Clinton. Saying that none of those accusers were credible. Now years later when it suits him, all of a sudden Trump believes them? Its purely self motivated, he could care less about those women. He is just deflecting and to not recognize that at this point is willful ignorance.

 

As to your last paragraph. The country cant rally around a single person until the country gets its (and I hate saying this but I cant think of a better word) soul back. Its cliche, but its time we remember who we are. This is the land of the free, this is the country that was built on:

 

 

 

And what so many Americans have forgotten, is that we were all once the "Mexican" the "Black" the "Jew" the "Italian" who someone else didnt want to come here, because they wanted to selfishly keep this country for themselves. And on the backs of all of these unwanted people we created the greatest country that has ever existed. The country that defeated the Nazis, the country who forgave the Marshall loans. The country who has sacrificed as much, if not more, than any one else in the hope that everyone can enjoy the freedom that so many Americans take for granted.

 

So excuse me if I get offended by Trump and anyone who wants to blame the "others" because my family was once the people that were not welcome. My people were the ones who left Russia, who left Italy, who left Ireland. They were Catholics, they were Jews, they were Protestants, and they all left hoping that they would find a place where they could be free to live their lives and not worry that one day their business would be closed or they would be killed for just being different.

 

Lets look at Hillary in the worst possible light. She made bad decisions. Anyone who cant admit that theyve made a bad decision is a liar. But at least Hillary isnt trying to strip away what makes this country great. Maybe that means I have to support a less than ideal candidate, but I am only here because someone that I never met defended my families right to come to this country. And I will not let that kindness be forgotten.

 

Its not always necessary to rally around something great. Sometimes its good enough to rally against something terrible. Trump is something terrible. The road to xenophobic fascism is paved by the people who let it happen. Promises of a better economy, more jobs, a better life. These are all promises that have been made on the backs of "others" before. This isnt for me, this is for all of the Americans who sacrificed for me over the last 200+ years. This is for the person who argued against keeping out immigrants when it wasnt socially acceptable, for the person who stood against slavery, for the person who argued that women should vote. And on a personal level, this is for my great Uncle (a man I never knew), who was a first generation Italian immigrant, who died on D-Day, fighting for our freedom.

 

You want something to rally around, rally around that. Because we dont need some "leader" or "President" to rally around, all we need is our ideals, our goodness. We need to rally around ourselves. Because America is great, not because of our wealth, but because of the idea that we can all be who we want to be. That we shouldnt have to fear that being who we are is going to result in something bad happening. And if that isnt good enough, then you really werent an American to begin with.

 

Well, that's a good post. I do like these lines the best ... "The country cant rally around a single person until the country gets its (and I hate saying this but I cant think of a better word) soul back. Its cliche, but its time we remember who we are. This is the land of the free, this is the country that was built on"

 

You make many good points obviously. I guess my "problem" is I have found it difficult to choose the .150 hitter over the .050 hitter. My brain has more been to attack the .150 hitter because I like her as much as I liked Rios. But you do make good points.

You said: "Its not always necessary to rally around something great. Sometimes its good enough to rally against something terrible. Trump is something terrible."

Those are three good sentences to ponder. My problem is I tend to think of Hillary as terrible as well, albeit not as bad as Trump. I like your post .I just have difficulty in that I want to diss and trash both candidates and have not been able to grasp your admirable concept that "sometimes it's good enough to rally against something terrible." I believe it's partly because I know there's no way in hell voters will elect Trump. I don't consider his being elected a real possibility, hence again, it is easy for me to focus on Hillary who I consider evil.

I guess I will conclude by saying I hope you are right about Hillary as you seem to suggest she's actually not that bad.

 

I will conclude by saying I never thought a presidential election could be THIS out of control in terms of so little caring about the issues (at least in the media). Right now, the past week and up to election day it is and will continue to be all about finding and quoting women who Trump attacked. The Stern interviews have been out there so long ... it's been known he was head of the beauty pageant for so long ... why didn't this stuff get exposed during Republican primary season when the Republicans might have actually nominated somebody presentable like Kasich?

Edited October 14, 2016 by greg775

[RockRaines]

I love how people aren't aware documents can be edited.

[Soxbadger]

Well, that's a good post. I do like these lines the best ... "The country cant rally around a single person until the country gets its (and I hate saying this but I cant think of a better word) soul back. Its cliche, but its time we remember who we are. This is the land of the free, this is the country that was built on"

 

You make many good points obviously. I guess my "problem" is I have found it difficult to choose the .150 hitter over the .050 hitter. My brain has more been to attack the .150 hitter because I like her as much as I liked Rios. But you do make good points.

You said: "Its not always necessary to rally around something great. Sometimes its good enough to rally against something terrible. Trump is something terrible."

Those are three good sentences to ponder. My problem is I tend to think of Hillary as terrible as well, albeit not as bad as Trump. I like your post .I just have difficulty in that I want to diss and trash both candidates and have not been able to grasp your admirable concept that "sometimes it's good enough to rally against something terrible." I believe it's partly because I know there's no way in hell voters will elect Trump. I don't consider his being elected a real possibility, hence again, it is easy for me to focus on Hillary who I consider evil.

I guess I will conclude by saying I hope you are right about Hillary as you seem to suggest she's actually not that bad.

 

I will conclude by saying I never thought a presidential election could be THIS out of control in terms of so little caring about the issues (at least in the media). Right now, the past week and up to election day it is and will continue to be all about finding and quoting women who Trump attacked. The Stern interviews have been out there so long ... it's been known he was head of the beauty pageant for so long ... why didn't this stuff get exposed during Republican primary season when the Republicans might have actually nominated somebody presentable like Kasich?

 

Greg,

 

I appreciate your honest reply. While I do believe Trump winning is unlikely, there have been "unlikely" events that have occurred in history that have resulted in terrible things. Many of those events occurred because people sat on the sidelines and didnt ever believe "it could get that bad." Who knows what will happen with Hillary, but I believe it likely will be the status quo. Which in reality, is all we need. There is something fundamentally broken in Congress, where "compromise" has become a bad thing. Our country is being taken over by the extreme, because they have the loudest voices, they are the ones that show up no matter. So we end up pandering to them, in a sick cycle where the minority extreme dictates the course for everyone. Every issue isnt some sort of end all war, but thats what they make it. Instead of starting with "What can we agree on?" they start with "we will never give in." They would rather destroy everything than come up with a solution that may require a small sacrifice by both sides.

 

As to how did the Republican's let it get there? Because they didnt think Trump really could do it. So some sat on the sidelines, some of them voted for Trump out of protest and maybe even some voted for Trump in an attempt to cripple the Republican's chances in the general election. But again, instead of the Republican candidates sacrificing themselves, they all went for their own glory. That is, until it was too late. Because what they never predicted was that the minority extreme, would show up. And while the rest of the Republican field split all of their votes among an insane amount of candidates, the extreme all went for Trump.

 

So here we are. And I am not going to tell anyone how to vote. The greatness and terribleness of a democracy/republic is that we are all entitled to vote for whoever we want for whatever reason we want. All I can say is that not standing up to evil, is evil. For thousands of years humans have been trampled and destroyed so that we could have the privilege of living in this nation and it is extremely offensive that people of this country parade around signs saying "Make America great again." Because the underlying implication is that somehow America was better when not everyone was equal, when there were Americans struggling to have the same rights just because of their race, gender, religion, orientation. To me there is nothing great to go back to.

 

All we can do is try and create a country where the lowest of the low have a chance to become the highest of the high. That may mean that we have to give up something, that we have to pay taxes that are "unfair", that some people may "game" the system. But so what, nothing is ever truly "even" or really "fair." But at least we live in a country where I am not going to worry that I will wake up tonight with a black hood coming down over my face, because I dared to disagree, because I am not one of the "majority." And there is no price that can be put on that.

[Quin]

I can't be the only one getting popcorn ready for a hypothetical New York Times vs. Trump case, am I?

 

Coverage would get higher ratings than the entire run of The Apprentice.

[Steve9347]

The global Mod breaking the rules of the forum...shocking.

I wish we didn't have that pesky, "no gifs" rule. Time to ban quinarvy.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Steve9347

[StrangeSox]

Trump is going to blame Mexican billionaire Carlos slim for the allegations coming out against him.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamSerwer/statu...893312791711744

[Steve9347]

Trump is going to blame Mexican billionaire Carlos slim for the allegations coming out against him.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamSerwer/statu...893312791711744

Man, Trump has really activated a lot of tin foil hats among the masses by wearing his own so loudly and proudly.

[Kyyle23]

Ken Bone did a Reddit AMA. He probably should not have done that

[brett05]

how is that meme breaking rules of the forum?

1 and 3 in the acknowledge thread

[brett05]

Um... you haven't given me anything to deny.

 

Do you think the Democrats are miscounting votes? Do you think the Democrats are having people vote multiple times? If the answer to that is no, then they aren't "rigging" the election. If the answer is yes, then where is your evidence.

 

The simple reality is that Trump is committing more gaffes than any candidate in my lifetime. Every day a new scandal comes out that would be the biggest scandal against a candidate in any prior election during that time. That's why every poll shows Trump down. He is absolutely unfit to hold the highest office in this country.

 

But go ahead - keep your head in the sand on this stuff...

I stated what has ben rigged. You keep denying it as I have said is your right.

[Steve9347]

I stated what has ben rigged. You keep denying it as I have said is your right.

I don't believe anyone rigged humans to go vote for whom they wanted to win. You can't rig that.

[Kyyle23]

1 and 3 in the acknowledge thread

 

posting a meme that means "i looked at your post, and closed my computer after shaking my head" isnt insulting you or pushing your buttons. Complaint denied, back to rigging claims

[NorthSideSox72]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix...x-talk-scandal/

So, those lines from Limbaugh are more offensive to me than most of the (also awful) Trump lines being discussed. That is just really disturbing.

 

[brett05]

posting a meme that means "i looked at your post, and closed my computer after shaking my head" isnt insulting you or pushing your buttons. Complaint denied, back to rigging claims

It was the second or third time, yes it was egging. But it's your site and you'll enforce your rules however you want.

[Kyyle23]

It was the second or third time, yes it was egging. But it's your site and you'll enforce your rules however you want.

 

Yes, we definitely rig the rules here too

[lostfan]

I don't actively moderate this forum anymore but that post didn't violate any rules. I don't like to over-moderate, so that one falls in the "don't post here if you're thin-skinned" category.

[Brian]

I've never seen a poster egg others on so much than complain when he thinks others do it him. It's quite humorous.

[StrangeSox]

So, those lines from Limbaugh are more offensive to me than most of the (also awful) Trump lines being discussed. That is just really disturbing.

I think they go hand in hand, but Limbaugh laying out his lack of understanding or even rejection of consent- based ethics to borrow a phrase from crimson just highlights the underlying problem so well.

 

Mike pence has been on the morning shows defending Trump and claiming that Trump has proof that the accusations against him are lies.

Edited October 14, 2016 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

Southwest is flying to Havana soon, and now Obama has lifted the van on bringing Cuban rum and cigars back.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/USATODAY/status/...915021775306752

[lostfan]

Limbaugh was so, SO close to being right. Of course non-consensual sex is rape! What's confusing about this?

 

So 5 people are in a consensual gang-bang? Ok, so? What business is this of yours?

[StrangeSox]

 

Imagine if Romney, McCain, or Obama had had a scandal like this. Just this one single scandal about lying about their donations to a 9/11 charity. They'd have been buried. With Trump, this will barely be a blip on the radar. And he's still going to get 35%+ of the vote.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/786916274441977856

 

ABC picking up the story too.

[StrangeSox]

Limbaugh was so, SO close to being right. Of course non-consensual sex is rape! What's confusing about this?

 

So 5 people are in a consensual gang-bang? Ok, so? What business is this of yours?

 

Not exactly shocking that the moral majority turns out to be morally bankrupt tbh

 

[CrimsonWeltall]

Not exactly shocking that the moral majority turns out to be morally bankrupt tbh

 

They have morals; they're just morals that are awful for women, gay people, etc.

 

Homosexuality => impure

Pre-marital sex => impure

Threesome => impure

Sexual assault of women => not very nice, but it's not full-fledged rape damaging the woman's purity

Marital rape => not very nice, bug at least it's sex in marriage so no purity violation

[bigruss]

The most surprising thing I've read all year, nay my whole life, is that Glenn Beck is openly in favor of BLM and actually trying to change people's minds.

[lostfan]

The most surprising thing I've read all year, nay my whole life, is that Glenn Beck is openly in favor of BLM and actually trying to change people's minds.

When Glenn Beck worked for CNN, he was a reasonable, thoughtful guy I thought, I actually liked him even if I disagreed with most of what he said. Then Obama won the election in a huge tidal wave and Dems had a House majority and a supermajority in the Senate (even if only functional for a few weeks and mostly a mirage), and he went over to Fox and made a s***load of money selling fear and paranoia. It eventually got to be too much even for Fox but his media company still lived. Most of that s*** he does is just an act.