2016 Democratic Thread

[Jenksismyhero]

you're only reiterating that you don't even understand the mechanism at play here.

 

Oh f*** off. You're pointing to how authoritarian regimes operate (a vocal leader that criticizes people and has some fervent supporters that will act accordingly) and then, without support, you jump to the conclusion that Trump is showing signs of doing that. All while ignoring the evidence to the contrary.

 

Your point is the equivalent of, "hey, Trump's a vocal leader....Hitler was a vocal leader.....i'm not sayin' i'm just sayin'! Trump is become Hitler and you can't prove he won't be!"

Edited December 8, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero

[StrangeSox]

Oh f*** off. You're pointing to how authoritarian regimes operate (a vocal leader that criticizes people and has some fervent supporters that will act accordingly) and then, without support, you jump to the conclusion that Trump is showing signs of doing that. All while ignoring the evidence to the contrary.

 

Your point is the equivalent of, "hey, Trump's a vocal leader....Hitler was a vocal leader.....i'm not sayin' i'm just sayin'! Trump is become Hitler and you can't prove he won't be!"

 

No, it's really not.

 

Trump has shown signs of doing it. The evidence is the event in question, in which someone criticized him for lying, he responded by personally attacking an individual citizen, and that citizen is now receiving death threats. It's not about future-tense at this point, it's already happened. Do you think a union leader at the next business he decides to individually call out is more or less likely to speak up against Trump publicly now?

 

Your response has been to say that Trump didn't explicitly call for violence or silencing his opponents, which wholly misses the point of how this chilling effect works. Don't tell me to f*** off for pointing out that you're deliberately ignoring that as it's been explained to you multiple times. And it's not me who's jumped to the Hitler comparisons, it's something you're doing so you can just waive away the argument without actually bothering to address it.

 

Trump ran as an authoritarian. That's where his rhetoric and his campaign messaging was firmly grounded. He is now acting like an authoritarian. I expect that to only get worse when he takes office. I think it's dangerous to ignore the pretty standard playbook he's following and to make excuses for it. There's no need to rush to "OMG HITLER," but there's also no need to bury your head in the sand.

[Jenksismyhero]

No, it's really not.

 

Trump has shown signs of doing it. The evidence is the event in question, in which someone criticized him for lying, he responded by personally attacking an individual citizen, and that citizen is now receiving death threats. It's not about future-tense at this point, it's already happened. Do you think a union leader at the next business he decides to individually call out is more or less likely to speak up against Trump publicly now?

 

Your response has been to say that Trump didn't explicitly call for violence or silencing his opponents, which wholly misses the point of how this chilling effect works. Don't tell me to f*** off for pointing out that you're deliberately ignoring that as it's been explained to you multiple times. And it's not me who's jumped to the Hitler comparisons, it's something you're doing so you can just waive away the argument without actually bothering to address it.

 

Trump ran as an authoritarian. That's where his rhetoric and his campaign messaging was firmly grounded. He is now acting like an authoritarian. I expect that to only get worse when he takes office. I think it's dangerous to ignore the pretty standard playbook he's following and to make excuses for it. There's no need to rush to "OMG HITLER," but there's also no need to bury your head in the sand.

 

The same union leader spoke out again today, publicly. http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/i-stand-beh...eader-says.html

 

So no, I'd say your fear/concern about the chilling effect of a reality star narcissist who has been responding to his critics on Twitter for years is utterly and completely unfounded.

 

My Hitler comparison goes the to same extreme as your unrealistic fear about Trump and what he intends to do with his power as President. It's not burying my head in the sand. It's not ignoring the problems with Trump doing what he does as the public face of our country. But we also shouldn't jump to the extremes as you and others are doing since November 9th.

 

[StrangeSox]

The same union leader spoke out again today, publicly. http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/i-stand-beh...eader-says.html

 

So no, I'd say your fear/concern about the chilling effect of a reality star narcissist Republican President of the United States of America with a relatively new loyal cult following who has been responding to his critics on Twitter for years is utterly and completely unfounded.

 

My Hitler comparison goes the to same extreme as your unrealistic fear about Trump and what he intends to do with his power as President. It's not burying my head in the sand. It's not ignoring the problems with Trump doing what he does as the public face of our country. But we also shouldn't jump to the extremes as you and others are doing since November 9th.

 

yo you missed an important piece here!

 

This man has already been targeted and is already known, so the risk of continuing to speak out is minimal compared to someone new. I think it's pretty baffling that you're assuming there is absolutely zero chilling effect from having the (soon) President of the United States call you out personally on twitter for daring to criticize him and then having his legion of followers harass you and send you death threats and threats about your children. Would you feel equally comfortable calling out Obama using your own name as you would Trump, given the way he's responded and knowing that it means your whole life might be doxxed including calls and threats to your house, your employer, your family? This is a well-documented phenomenon with a long history and there's not much of a basis to blithely assume it won't also happen with respect to Trump. That doesn't mean that the next step is death squads a la Duterte (whom Trump has praised), but it does mean it's a step on the road to authoritarianism. Being vigilante against that isn't jumping to an extreme.

 

Trump has pined for the days when you could beat up protesters and get away with it. He's had a long history of using lawsuits to silence critics and unfavorable coverage. He's expressed a desire to "open up" libel laws to make that even easier. He's called for the revocation of the citizenship of people who protest him by burning flags. He's praised dictators and their tactics multiple times. He's called for "deportation squads," and some of his advisors are favorably referencing Japanese internment camps as policy guidelines. He's called for banning an entire religion from coming into the country. He repeatedly called for the jailing of his political opponent and has even questioned the legitimacy of the election that he won. He's not necessarily the next Mussolini, but right now, the scales are tipped pretty heavily towards "authoritarian."

 

Don't hold Trump to a lower standard just because he's so obviously unfit for office. That's how he came to hold the most powerful single position on the planet. Don't make excuses for his behavior, don't pretend like his actions are normal and say stuff like "what he can't respond to criticism?" when you know damn well that this behavior is entirely unacceptable. Imagine the absolute meltdowns if Obama had done something even remotely similar to this. Not being taken seriously while still wielding very real power is another important tool in the kit, and we shouldn't help him to use it.

Edited December 8, 2016 by StrangeSox

[bmags]

What happens if Twitter folds? I've been wondering that recently.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

The world improves, even if only a little.

[bmags]

I love Twitter though. BUt seriously, he has shown an interest in no other medium aside from TV. Would be really strange what affect it would have.

 

Like, if international incidents are happening from Trump @ing people...does Twitter say "naw thanks" and get out of the way?

[StrangeSox]

what a horrifying and dumb time we live in

 

seriously though I'm sure someone will buy twitter's IP, google is always looking for ways to blow money. worst case, Trump nationalizes it!

Edited December 8, 2016 by StrangeSox

[bmags]

Nationalizing was a definite thing I was imagining.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Nationalizing was a definite thing I was imagining.

 

Much like MySpace Tom being everyone's friend on MySpace, everyone's twitter account will follow Trump. And having a twitter account will be mandatory, and you can't unfollow him.

[southsider2k5]

If you like your twitter, you can keep your twitter.

[caulfield12]

http://www.avclub.com/article/right-wing-c...dc-pizza-246891

 

Just this last week, you have the Pizzagate alt-right conspiracy gun nut situation. That did result in the son of a Trump nominee getting the boot, but it could have turned out much worse if not for quick intervention.

 

I do think we're not far away from the point where an Alec Baldwin or Tina Fey or even the woman who came out very directly in an "in your face" way (for wasting time on Twitter) against Trump on Twitter is attacked (her name was made public very quickly).

 

And then you have the reverse side, people seeking fame/attention/notoriety from attacking Trump online and drawing his return fire. Both are not positive developments, obviously.

 

You're still having these headline-grabbing stories every week...this time, the NYC hijab attack by a group of drunken idiots.

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/08/opinions/fre...itis/index.html

On Trump's effect on free speech...Boeing losing $1 billion in market value due to tweets on Air Force One contract is yet another example

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by caulfield12

[bmags]

SEC needs to monitor Trump family positions on any company he comments on that moves the market.

[Balta1701]

SEC needs to monitor Trump family positions on any company he comments on that moves the market.

Why, so that they can gather data about how effective their comments are at moving the market and better prepare their investments for his next comment to maximize their return on investment?

[southsider2k5]

SEC needs to monitor Trump family positions on any company he comments on that moves the market.

 

The sad fact is that there is so much insider trading done in the house and senate, except then they call it things like "lobbying".

[bmags]

The sad fact is that there is so much insider trading done in the house and senate, except then they call it things like "lobbying".

 

That's true but they are acting on regulation knowledge and other info they should not act on, a president can move markets himself. If his family/associates know what companies he's going to threaten with tweets they could make a fortune. See Boeing.

 

Either way you could tackle both.

[caulfield12]

http://nypost.com/2016/12/08/victor-cruz-b...cist-vandalism/

 

In other news, PEOTUS Donald J. Trump will next go to war with the NY Giants/Victor Cruz.

 

Bet a house on it. He'll probably suggest it was an "inside job" perpetrated by minorities to make him look like the bad guy.

 

 

 

It's one of the headline stories at ESPN.com as well, but can't seem to get that site to work right now.

[caulfield12]

The sad fact is that there is so much insider trading done in the house and senate, except then they call it things like "lobbying".

 

Just imagine how much money you would have made if you put all your money into big banks, the defense industry, private prison/detention center contractors and Amazon on November 7th...

 

Amazon's yet another interesting example, because the tech companies tend to be more "liberal/Democrat" (especially the West Coast-based ones) and the Amazon Go logistics automation program promises to wipe out thousands of jobs in various industries. Starting with cashiers, but eventually spilling over into other areas of job responsibility. Not only that, but most tech companies are on record as wanting to continue the influx of tech workers on H1B visas from places like China and India.

 

So is that good or bad in Trump's mind? Amazon might be the most successful company in the US, if not the world, right now. Shouldn't that be celebrated/touted?

 

What about Google/Uber/Apple autonomous/self-driving cars that will replace drivers? Banned for displacing more workers?

 

 

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/media/trum...e-ep/index.html

 

Trump is going to attempt to stay on as EXEC Producer of Celebrity Apprentice. SIGH.

 

That agreement, first reported by Variety and confirmed by sources at NBC and the Trump campaign, means the president will have an interest in a show aired by a media company that also reports on his presidency -- a major conflict of interest for the network.

 

"The Apprentice," which Trump hosted for 14 seasons, was created by Mark Burnett and is owned and produced by MGM. The 15th season, hosted by former California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, will air on NBC starting January 2.

 

NBC Entertainment, NBC News and MGM all did not immediately respond to requests for comment regarding the decision to keep Trump as an executive producer.

 

It is unclear how much Trump will be paid per episode.

 

And I guess we're just supposed to take his spokesperson's claims that he has sold all of his individual stocks (but not necessarily any hedge funds) at face value?

 

And who needs that stupid Daily National Security Briefing stuff...I'll just let those great/brilliant/amazing generals that I'm bringing on board sort all of that foreign policy stuff out. Except for the times when I start WW III with China over twitter.

Edited December 9, 2016 by caulfield12

[Jenksismyhero]

Just imagine how much money you would have made if you put all your money into big banks, the defense industry, private prison/detention center contractors and Amazon on November 7th...

 

Amazon's yet another interesting example, because the tech companies tend to be more "liberal/Democrat" (especially the West Coast-based ones) and the Amazon Go logistics automation program promises to wipe out thousands of jobs in various industries. Starting with cashiers, but eventually spilling over into other areas of job responsibility. Not only that, but most tech companies are on record as wanting to continue the influx of tech workers on H1B visas from places like China and India.

 

So is that good or bad in Trump's mind? Amazon might be the most successful company in the US, if not the world, right now. Shouldn't that be celebrated/touted?

 

What about Google/Uber/Apple autonomous/self-driving cars that will replace drivers? Banned for displacing more workers?

 

 

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/media/trum...e-ep/index.html

 

Trump is going to attempt to stay on as EXEC Producer of Celebrity Apprentice. SIGH.

 

That agreement, first reported by Variety and confirmed by sources at NBC and the Trump campaign, means the president will have an interest in a show aired by a media company that also reports on his presidency -- a major conflict of interest for the network.

 

"The Apprentice," which Trump hosted for 14 seasons, was created by Mark Burnett and is owned and produced by MGM. The 15th season, hosted by former California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, will air on NBC starting January 2.

 

NBC Entertainment, NBC News and MGM all did not immediately respond to requests for comment regarding the decision to keep Trump as an executive producer.

 

It is unclear how much Trump will be paid per episode.

 

And I guess we're just supposed to take his spokesperson's claims that he has sold all of his individual stocks (but not necessarily any hedge funds) at face value?

 

And who needs that stupid Daily National Security Briefing stuff...I'll just let those great/brilliant/amazing generals that I'm bringing on board sort all of that foreign policy stuff out. Except for the times when I start WW III with China over twitter.

 

Wait, so because he may or may not get a royalty check for a reality tv show that has never been political, there's now a conflict of interest between him and NBC/MSNBC news? Couldn't you have said the same thing the last 2 years? Has there been any indication that NBC/MSNBC has taken it easy on him?

Edited December 9, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero

[StrangeSox]

Wait, so because he may or may not get a royalty check for a reality tv show that has never been political, there's now a conflict of interest between him and NBC/MSNBC news? Couldn't you have said the same thing the last 2 years? Has there been any indication that NBC/MSNBC has taken it easy on him?

 

At least the Morning Joe show has been a pretty big cheerleader for him.

 

But it's not about his dumb garbage TV show itself being political, it's about business deal ties and how that could influence decisions. If he's still executive producer and the Celebrity Apprentice is a good profit-maker for NBC, Trump can threaten to pull the program from the network explicitly or implicitly if they don't give him coverage they like. You don't seem to understand how much things changed when he went from an absurd joke of a candidate to President-Elect and soon President of the United States. He's the most powerful person in the country now.

[Balta1701]

Wait, so because he may or may not get a royalty check for a reality tv show that has never been political, there's now a conflict of interest between him and NBC/MSNBC news? Couldn't you have said the same thing the last 2 years? Has there been any indication that NBC/MSNBC has taken it easy on him?

Well, they had the grabbing tape and didn't run it for so long that someone leaked it to the post, that one is at least confirmed. There were rumors of other tapes being in the hands of Apprentice producers that would have been equally bad had they leaked, but those are just rumors so I can't hang much on that.

[Jenksismyhero]

At least the Morning Joe show has been a pretty big cheerleader for him.

 

But it's not about his dumb garbage TV show itself being political, it's about business deal ties and how that could influence decisions. If he's still executive producer and the Celebrity Apprentice is a good profit-maker for NBC, Trump can threaten to pull the program from the network explicitly or implicitly if they don't give him coverage they like. You don't seem to understand how much things changed when he went from an absurd joke of a candidate to President-Elect and soon President of the United States. He's the most powerful person in the country now.

 

So the one ex-republican congressman on MSNBC is pro-republican. What about Matthews? What about Maddow? They're probably the most critical and liberal out there and yet he's kept his show on the network because it makes him money.

 

Just like the argument yesterday, if you strain hard enough you can see the conflict. But I don't think it's a legitimate one. But carry-on your freak out about how Trump is now going to control the media through his executively produced television show ties.

[lostfan]

What exactly will it take for people to not make excuses for Trump? Like if someone saw a direct deposit receipt from a donor that said "Quid Pro Quo for Political Actions" on it, is that sufficient?

[Jenksismyhero]

Well, they had the grabbing tape and didn't run it for so long that someone leaked it to the post, that one is at least confirmed. There were rumors of other tapes being in the hands of Apprentice producers that would have been equally bad had they leaked, but those are just rumors so I can't hang much on that.

 

Wasn't the delay due to requests to legal about a possible lawsuit? I don't remember hearing anyone say it was because they feared Trump would pull the Apprentice.

[StrangeSox]

But carry-on your freak out about how Trump is now going to control the media through his executively produced television show ties.

 

 

you do this same dumb thing in every argument. stop it. it's not clever, it's not effective, it's just annoying and dumb.