2016 Democratic Thread

[RockRaines]

Throw aside your hate for him for a second. He's been very anti-NAFTA and anti-TPP through out it all. That's been the loudest part of his campaign outside of the wall. Whether anything could be done about them remains to be seen, but theoretically the uneducated and lower income people should be the ones benefitting from it.

I disagree. His economic and trade policies would hurt the lower income bracket even more by hurting existing jobs and exports. He also is anti-TPP but his only opposition to that trade policy is that he can "Negotiate better deals." Its an empty promise and only morons would accept "negotiation" as an actual policy. He also isnt for increasing minimum wage which should be the #1 ask for most of his base. Oh, he also supports giant tax cuts for the wealthy and having Wal-Street pros run the economy. If I am in the lower income bracket and I have been forced to live in a trailer that I rent, I wouldnt be all that keen on literally everything he supports in his economic "plan."

 

The "creation of jobs" that these supporters are REALLY in favor of is somehow exporting millions of immigrants and passing their jobs onto American workers who currently are unemployed. IMO if you look at a cross section of trump supporters, many of the people who are not working arent included in the unemployed statistics because they arent actually actively looking.

Edited March 14, 2016 by RockRaines

[bmags]

What is the behavior that you're (ss2k5 and bmags) concerned would become acceptable?

 

Essentially the normalization of shutting down campaign rallies as protest.

[illinilaw08]

Sure, but in terms of the country and policies that affect everyday Americans, there's not much he can do. Remember, you're the one telling me the President can't act unilaterally without Congress or even the SC stepping in.

 

The guy's a terrible person and an even worse candidate, but I'm just not terrified of him royally screwing things up. I just don't think that's possible in our system.

 

GW Bush and Iraq pretty horribly screwed up the budget and probably created a massive power vacuum in the Middle East. The Second Iraq War has had some majorly bad long term consequences. Yes, it was approved by Congress but based on some pretty skewed intelligence.

 

The President can have some very, very adverse consequences on foreign policy...

[southsider2k5]

Essentially the normalization of shutting down campaign rallies as protest.

 

Yes. If this is acceptable, it is just as easy for another group to shutdown a Hillary event with the simple justification of "They did it to Trump". Remember they don't have to be right, and they don't have to have a common sense justification to now take this as an acceptable form of political action.

[NorthSideSox72]

Yes. If this is acceptable, it is just as easy for another group to shutdown a Hillary event with the simple justification of "They did it to Trump". Remember they don't have to be right, and they don't have to have a common sense justification to now take this as an acceptable form of political action.

Other than the sporadic instances of violence (there were very few of those, fortunately), it would be just as legal.

 

For me personally, I feel it is justified with Trump because of just how dangerous he is. It's not about policy. I wouldn't find it useful or justified if it was against literally any other candidate. But that's my personal view, not a legal one.

 

You make a good point on precedent, though. It could start happening more often. There is good and bad in that. I'd like to see people get more involved, to a point.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Other than the sporadic instances of violence (there were very few of those, fortunately), it would be just as legal.

 

For me personally, I feel it is justified with Trump because of just how dangerous he is. It's not about policy. I wouldn't find it useful or justified if it was against literally any other candidate. But that's my personal view, not a legal one.

 

You make a good point on precedent, though. It could start happening more often. There is good and bad in that. I'd like to see people get more involved, to a point.

 

A large chunk of the country feels that both Obama and Hillary are "dangerous" to the country. Danger has become a very subjective and loaded word in modern politics.

 

The last thing I want to see happen is for the shutting down of the public political campaign process to the masses for the "protection" of the candidates, and the general public to be even more detached from the political process then they already are, with candidates being kept solely behind closed doors.

[greg775]

Just read the FBI director will likely resign in protest if Obama and/or the justice department refuse to allow charges to be filed against Hillary.

To the people who think Trump will be a dictator ... isn't the Democratic party taking on that role, laughing inside as they know damn well Obama won't allow Hillary to stand trial nor will the justice department. Hopefully the FBI director will at least resign in protest.

Here's the link. I'm ready for the response of Hillary supporters ... the national review should never have stories linked ... you can't believe the national review ... what the hell kind of website is that anyway??

I just want justice to be served. If Hillary is off the hook, at least let the others out of prison who have been convicted of security-related breach crimes. Let them out as well!! If we truly don't care that people breach our security then let's truly not care and please let everybody out of jail convicted of such crimes.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4303...-resign-protest

Edited March 15, 2016 by greg775

[Steve9347]

Just read the FBI director will likely resign in protest if Obama and/or the justice department refuse to allow charges to be filed against Hillary.

To the people who think Trump will be a dictator ... isn't the Democratic party taking on that role, laughing inside as they know damn well Obama won't allow Hillary to stand trial nor will the justice department. Hopefully the FBI director will at least resign in protest.

Here's the link. I'm ready for the response of Hillary supporters ... the national review should never have stories linked ... you can't believe the national review ... what the hell kind of website is that anyway??

I just want justice to be served. If Hillary is off the hook, at least let the others out of prison who have been convicted of security-related breach crimes. Let them out as well!! If we truly don't care that people breach our security then let's truly not care and please let everybody out of jail convicted of such crimes.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4303...-resign-protest

National Review is a conservative publication filled with lies. I suggest finding a more balanced source for your news.

[NorthSideSox72]

A large chunk of the country feels that both Obama and Hillary are "dangerous" to the country. Danger has become a very subjective and loaded word in modern politics.

 

The last thing I want to see happen is for the shutting down of the public political campaign process to the masses for the "protection" of the candidates, and the general public to be even more detached from the political process then they already are, with candidates being kept solely behind closed doors.

 

Well first, the subjectivity is certainly an issue, you are correct. Except no other candidate in either party in my voting lifetime has been telling people at their rallies to be violent against protestors - just Trump. If people can't see he's an exception, then those people are the problem. It's not a Dem or GOP thing, no one is acting this way towards Cruz or Sanders.

 

Also, I honestly don't think protests like that one happening more often is necessarily a bad thing. As long as the fights can be minimized or not there at all, I think it is healthy.

 

[RockRaines]

Oh Greg, come on now.

[southsider2k5]

Well first, the subjectivity is certainly an issue, you are correct. Except no other candidate in either party in my voting lifetime has been telling people at their rallies to be violent against protestors - just Trump. If people can't see he's an exception, then those people are the problem. It's not a Dem or GOP thing, no one is acting this way towards Cruz or Sanders.

 

Also, I honestly don't think protests like that one happening more often is necessarily a bad thing. As long as the fights can be minimized or not there at all, I think it is healthy.

 

That is just it. They don't. And they have shown they are perfectly willing to cause problems, plus a group just showed them that this is an acceptable, and even praised political behavior. I can't wait until these people shut down Hillary rallies to prove what a coward she is, since she is the next anti-Christ and all.

 

The problem is you are thinking rationally. You can't think rationally here.

[pettie4sox]

That is just it. They don't. And they have shown they are perfectly willing to cause problems, plus a group just showed them that this is an acceptable, and even praised political behavior. I can't wait until these people shut down Hillary rallies to prove what a coward she is, since she is the next anti-Christ and all.

 

The problem is you are thinking rationally. You can't think rationally here.

 

100% agree. A majority of the people you run into in your day to day life are not very rational. I'm being really nice with my word choice here.

[southsider2k5]

100% agree. A majority of the people you run into in your day to day life are not very rational. I'm being really nice with my word choice here.

 

As usual, George Carlin said it best. The bolded is one of my all time favorite quotes.

 

“Goddam there's a lot of stupid bastards walking around.

 

Carry a little pad and pencil with you. You'll wind up with thirty or forty names by the end of the day.

 

Look at it this way: Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.

 

And it doesn't take you very long to spot one of them does it? Take you about eight seconds.

 

You'll be listening to some guy...you say..."this guy is f***ing stupid!"”

[NorthSideSox72]

As usual, George Carlin said it best. The bolded is one of my all time favorite quotes.

 

“Goddam there's a lot of stupid bastards walking around.

 

Carry a little pad and pencil with you. You'll wind up with thirty or forty names by the end of the day.

 

Look at it this way: Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.

 

And it doesn't take you very long to spot one of them does it? Take you about eight seconds.

 

You'll be listening to some guy...you say..."this guy is f***ing stupid!"”

 

I think an even better description in this case, is about the groupthink aspect around Trump, more than individual stupidity. I'll give you a movie quote...

 

"A person is smart. People are stupid, dangerous animals."

 

The Trump movement is a perfect illustration of this. I am sure some of the people you'd find in his rallies will in fact be individually, truly, stupid. But I also know people who are otherwise not complete idiots that have been sucked into this idea that Trump "tells it like it is", which is hilarious in that he tells it less like it is than any other politician.

 

[StrangeSox]

"tell it like it is" is thinly veiled code for saying bunch of bigoted things

[southsider2k5]

"tell it like it is" is thinly veiled code for saying bunch of bigoted things

 

Not really. I think Bernie Sanders, "tells it like it is". I wouldn't call him a bigot.

[NorthSideSox72]

Not really. I think Bernie Sanders, "tells it like it is". I wouldn't call him a bigot.

I think SS more meant, people who constantly say that about themselves are sometimes masking bigotry or general jerkiness. Bernie's supporters don't say that, nor does he, because he is what he is. With Trump, he and his supporters want to say "because I think I should be allowed to be bigoted", but can't, so they say "tell it like it is".

 

And of course, no one says "tells it like it is" about Clinton because everyone else would laugh.

 

[chw42]

"tell it like it is" is thinly veiled code for saying bunch of bigoted things

 

I think "we need to stop being so politically correct" is what he uses for that.

[Harry Chappas]

As usual, George Carlin said it best. The bolded is one of my all time favorite quotes.

 

“Goddam there's a lot of stupid bastards walking around.

 

Carry a little pad and pencil with you. You'll wind up with thirty or forty names by the end of the day.

 

Look at it this way: Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.

 

And it doesn't take you very long to spot one of them does it? Take you about eight seconds.

 

You'll be listening to some guy...you say..."this guy is f***ing stupid!"”

 

Maybe I am just getting old (I am 45 years old) but I amazed at how many times I find myself wondering how stupid people really are. I do not mean stupid in that they are uneducated but stupid in that they have a shortsighted idea of how the world works.

 

This campaign season is the prime example. I was trying to explain to my wife that there is no way Trump wins the general election. I hate Hillary Clinton but she will win in a landslide against Trump. Trump is the personification of the stupidity of the American people at this point in time. I still believe his run for presidency is simply an attempt to tear apart the Republican party and it is working like a charm. He is pandering to the least common denominator and doing it masterfully. The odd part about it is that he is not part of the religious right yet that sect seems to no longer be an issue.

 

Anyone that is voting for Trump in a primary is wasting their vote. I stated yesterday that Kahlish is the only viable Republican and he was overshadowed by the crap that has been run out there for the last few months by the republican party.

 

If the Republicans had any candidate worth anything, I think they beat Hillary in November.....Trump/Hillary will make Reagan v Mondale look like a race.

 

IMHO

 

 

 

[clyons]

Maybe I am just getting old (I am 45 years old) but I amazed at how many times I find myself wondering how stupid people really are. I do not mean stupid in that they are uneducated but stupid in that they have a shortsighted idea of how the world works.

 

This campaign season is the prime example. I was trying to explain to my wife that there is no way Trump wins the general election. I hate Hillary Clinton but she will win in a landslide against Trump. Trump is the personification of the stupidity of the American people at this point in time. I still believe his run for presidency is simply an attempt to tear apart the Republican party and it is working like a charm. He is pandering to the least common denominator and doing it masterfully. The odd part about it is that he is not part of the religious right yet that sect seems to no longer be an issue.

 

Anyone that is voting for Trump in a primary is wasting their vote. I stated yesterday that Kahlish is the only viable Republican and he was overshadowed by the crap that has been run out there for the last few months by the republican party.

 

If the Republicans had any candidate worth anything, I think they beat Hillary in November.....Trump/Hillary will make Reagan v Mondale look like a race.

 

IMHO

 

Three months ago I'd have totally agreed with this. Now, I think it might be naïve.

[RockRaines]

Three months ago I'd have totally agreed with this. Now, I think it might be naïve.

I dont think there is any way that Trump can ride the white trash vote to the white house. Hillary has the dems, the minorities and the youth vote.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I dont think there is any way that Trump can ride the white trash vote to the white house. Hillary has the dems, the minorities and the youth vote.

 

Young people like Bernie, not Hillary.

[RockRaines]

Young people like Bernie, not Hillary.

Yes but if its Hillary vs Trump, the young will vote for Hillary. She's trending MUCH better with people under 30 than Trump, especially minorities.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Young people don't vote.

[Jose Abreu]

Young people (my age group), some of which can in fact vote, LOVE Bernie. Me, not so much. If it came down to Clinton vs. Trump, they'd reluctantly vote Hillary.