2016 Democratic Thread

[Reddy]

Ho hum. Bernie wins again. Wyoming to Bernie.

I think it's despicable that thanks to political media coverage, this is turning into a racial thing and that's ultimately going to bury Bernie in upcoming east coast primaries/caucuses. Why in the hell is Hillary considered so great by African Americans compared to Bernie?? For gosh sakes, Bill just took on the entire Black Lives Matter movement forcibly. If that had been one of Bernie's relatives ... boom, he'd have been buried more by the media. You tell me why the media like Geraldo laugh at Bernie's chances in New York and other Eastern states because allegedly he is so bad for African American voters?? With this turning into a racial thing ... Bernie truly has no chance.

 

(As proof, the CNN article I read on Wyoming said "it follows Bernie's pattern of winning only rural WHITE states." WTF. I wish Bernie would present his case better to African Americans because it's not like Hillary will be that much better for African Americans than Bernie!! Chisoxfan? Weigh in on this?

 

It has nothing to do with the media. It has to do with the fact that Bernie doesn't appeal much to minorities and women thanks to his condescension and Bernie Bro supporters... And "turning into a racial thing?" He's had this problem since the beginning. It ain't new.

 

I'm actually surprised his margin of victory in Wyoming was so small. I take that as a good sign for Hillary going forward - not that she needs it since she's got NY/PA/MD/NJ locked up.

[greg775]

Because Bernie is terrible at talking about anything except Wall Street.

 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/201...the-bern-213707

I read the article you sent me. It's sad that all those stories Hillary tells have sufficiently satisfied African Americans when the actual truth is she is everything to every group, just like the SNL depiction of her. "I'll be whatever you want me to be. Bernie needs to name an African American female for his VEEP now to ward off this perception he has no clue regarding race. Bill was so forceful to the Black Lives Matter demonstrators and it hasn't hurt Hillary at all. If the tension continues, she's going to have to order Bill to stay home til the Eastern primaries/caucuses are over. She obviously doesn't need his help in upcoming states where Bernie is considered evil.

[greg775]

I take that as a good sign for Hillary going forward - not that she needs it since she's got NY/PA/MD/NJ locked up.

Yes, unless Bill keeps appearing publicly and fighting with the protestors. As long as he goes away for a while, she's definitely got it made. I love Bill's spirit, but he's not helping his spouse any. She's a runaway winner in states with a good number of African-American voters.

Edited April 10, 2016 by greg775

[Quin]

I read the article you sent me. It's sad that all those stories Hillary tells have sufficiently satisfied African Americans when the actual truth is she is everything to every group, just like the SNL depiction of her. "I'll be whatever you want me to be. Bernie needs to name an African American female for his VEEP now to ward off this perception he has no clue regarding race. Bill was so forceful to the Black Lives Matter demonstrators and it hasn't hurt Hillary at all. If the tension continues, she's going to have to order Bill to stay home til the Eastern primaries/caucuses are over. She obviously doesn't need his help in upcoming states where Bernie is considered evil.

 

Bill was definitely not in the right, but you do understand that Black Lives Matters protesters aren't representative of all black people, right?

[Rex Kickass]

Ho hum. Bernie wins again. Wyoming to Bernie.

I think it's despicable that thanks to political media coverage, this is turning into a racial thing and that's ultimately going to bury Bernie in upcoming east coast primaries/caucuses. Why in the hell is Hillary considered so great by African Americans compared to Bernie?? For gosh sakes, Bill just took on the entire Black Lives Matter movement forcibly. If that had been one of Bernie's relatives ... boom, he'd have been buried more by the media. You tell me why the media like Geraldo laugh at Bernie's chances in New York and other Eastern states because allegedly he is so bad for African American voters?? With this turning into a racial thing ... Bernie truly has no chance.

 

(As proof, the CNN article I read on Wyoming said "it follows Bernie's pattern of winning only rural WHITE states." WTF. I wish Bernie would present his case better to African Americans because it's not like Hillary will be that much better for African Americans than Bernie!! Chisoxfan? Weigh in on this?

 

What's surprising about this state is how well Hillary did in Wyoming, a state that she ceded to Bernie and didn't really spend any money in. She still got 45% and 7 of the 14 delegates.

[greg775]

What's surprising about this state is how well Hillary did in Wyoming, a state that she ceded to Bernie and didn't really spend any money in. She still got 45% and 7 of the 14 delegates.

Your post reads like the media's coverage of Wyoming and the roll Bernie's been on. It's like "Bernie wins again" should be the headline and instead it's "Hillary continues to storm toward nomination" Saturday Night Live is the only organization that gets "it." They have the whole situation down pat.

[Reddy]

Your post reads like the media's coverage of Wyoming and the roll Bernie's been on. It's like "Bernie wins again" should be the headline and instead it's "Hillary continues to storm toward nomination" Saturday Night Live is the only organization that gets "it." They have the whole situation down pat.

 

They tied in pledged delegates (7) and Hillary already had 4 superdelegates, so she leaves Wyoming increasing her lead by 4 delegates.

 

Why should the media headline be "Bernie Wins Again" again?

[caulfield12]

Winning the likes of Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota and Colorado isn't just dominating lily white rural states.

 

The irony here is that states like Ohio, PA, WV, Indiana, KY...that's where she clobbered Obama 8 years ago. Now she's losing almost all of them to Sanders.

 

The only realistic way for Sanders to make this a race again would be to win NY. Otherwise, it's just white noise with all the focus on the GOP and the fascinating political machinations going on behind the scenes over there...are they pretending to support Cruz vs. Trump, only to turn to the likes of Kasich/Ryan, etc.?

[greg775]

SNL gets it about Hllary. There's so much truth and bite to Kate McKinnon's portrayal. Hillary the elitist/entitled lady. But for some reason we want her as president.

 

[Reddy]

SNL gets it about Hllary. There's so much truth and bite to Kate McKinnon's portrayal. Hillary the elitist/entitled lady. But for some reason we want her as president.

 

 

Because many of us aren't sexist. (and SNL is comedy. Thought that might be important to mention)

Edited April 10, 2016 by Reddy

[Buehrle>Wood]

Don't agree with greg a lot, but ridiculous to pull the sexist card there.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Buehrle>Wood

[Reddy]

Don't agree with greg a lot, but ridiculous to pull the sexist card there.

 

It's probably not intentional sexism, but the entire persona that is Hillary Clinton has been born out of institutional sexism and misogyny in the media. Everything she does is scrutinized to an absurd extent.

 

Could she have crazy wild hair, wag her fingers around, and bellow the way Bernie does without getting crucified?

 

No, I'm not saying greg is sexist. I'm saying he's buying into the media-created persona that is built out of sexism. And those who are more inclined to believe that stuff, are probably more inclined to also hold (perhaps unintentionally or unmaliciously) sexist beliefs themselves.

 

ETA: I'm pretty sure I recall greg commenting on her voice/"cackle"/etc in the past.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Reddy

[Reddy]

Just so I don't get flamed too badly - this 538 article gets into a lot of it

[greg775]

It's probably not intentional sexism, but the entire persona that is Hillary Clinton has been born out of institutional sexism and misogyny in the media. Everything she does is scrutinized to an absurd extent.

 

Could she have crazy wild hair, wag her fingers around, and bellow the way Bernie does without getting crucified?

 

No, I'm not saying greg is sexist. I'm saying he's buying into the media-created persona that is built out of sexism. And those who are more inclined to believe that stuff, are probably more inclined to also hold (perhaps unintentionally or unmaliciously) sexist beliefs themselves.

 

ETA: I'm pretty sure I recall greg commenting on her voice/"cackle"/etc in the past.

 

I can't speak for others, but I despise her not because I'm sexist or it's a sexist thing. I feel there's been so much smoke around her in her adult life regarding breaking the law. I feel like she's elitist (paid all that money for her speeches), she's bizarre (saying she was poor that one time) and again, the smoke suggests she is one, ill-mannered, "mean" person if you will. I don't see any articles disputing the secret service agents who said she is rude, etc. If she was Mother Theresa I think we'd hear about it. Yes I despise her screaming at me on TV through the screen but I could give a flip if she is man, woman or alien. I can accept a woman president; I just despise Hillary. I've said I love Bill Clinton; I just think Hillary is evil if that is the right word. And I love the fact SNL gets it and has her parodied perfectly.

She's entitled to be president by gosh. And for the life of me I don't understand why we're gonna vote her in.

 

Today's Q: Can I get my hopes up at all now that Cruz has emerged? Can he beat her? I realize Trump had no chance cause of the woman and African American vote, what bout Cruz? Any hope?

[Quin]

I can't speak for others, but I despise her not because I'm sexist or it's a sexist thing. I feel there's been so much smoke around her in her adult life regarding breaking the law. I feel like she's elitist (paid all that money for her speeches), she's bizarre (saying she was poor that one time) and again, the smoke suggests she is one, ill-mannered, "mean" person if you will. I don't see any articles disputing the secret service agents who said she is rude, etc. If she was Mother Theresa I think we'd hear about it. Yes I despise her screaming at me on TV through the screen but I could give a flip if she is man, woman or alien. I can accept a woman president; I just despise Hillary. I've said I love Bill Clinton; I just think Hillary is evil if that is the right word. And I love the fact SNL gets it and has her parodied perfectly.

She's entitled to be president by gosh. And for the life of me I don't understand why we're gonna vote her in.

 

Today's Q: Can I get my hopes up at all now that Cruz has emerged? Can he beat her? I realize Drumpf had no chance cause of the woman and African American vote, what bout Cruz? Any hope?

 

Well, Cruz is legitimately evil, so I hope not.

[southsider2k5]

It's probably not intentional sexism, but the entire persona that is Hillary Clinton has been born out of institutional sexism and misogyny in the media. Everything she does is scrutinized to an absurd extent.

 

Could she have crazy wild hair, wag her fingers around, and bellow the way Bernie does without getting crucified?

 

No, I'm not saying greg is sexist. I'm saying he's buying into the media-created persona that is built out of sexism. And those who are more inclined to believe that stuff, are probably more inclined to also hold (perhaps unintentionally or unmaliciously) sexist beliefs themselves.

 

ETA: I'm pretty sure I recall greg commenting on her voice/"cackle"/etc in the past.

 

And despite the hot mess that has become the Republican party, this is why I could never be a Democrat. Hillary isn't falling apart due to her candidacy, her "mistakes" and policy changes, or anything else that is her fault... nope, it is sexism.

[Reddy]

And despite the hot mess that has become the Republican party, this is why I could never be a Democrat. Hillary isn't falling apart due to her candidacy, her "mistakes" and policy changes, or anything else that is her fault... nope, it is sexism.

 

Can't it be both?

[bmags]

And despite the hot mess that has become the Republican party, this is why I could never be a Democrat. Hillary isn't falling apart due to her candidacy, her "mistakes" and policy changes, or anything else that is her fault... nope, it is sexism.

 

Well, I don't necessarily know what Hillary is falling apart means,

 

But considering Greg's actual comments so often due with her "entitlement", how she only cares about being president, her shrieking is annoying, etc,

 

That someones critical opinons of a woman in power may be colored by sexist attitudes without them actually being a sexist person should be clear.

 

I don't believe that everyone who dislikes Hillary clinton does so out of sexism. But there is a lot of baseline comments thrown out that are. And a lot of that has to do with her coming on the scene in the 90s where it was even more open to making very sexist comments and paint every action by her as "manipulative' "devious", etc, something that would not apply to a man. Peoples impressions of Clinton were drilled down 30 years ago, and the idea "that we know her" based off the information in that time period deserves to be called out.

 

If you want to see a candidate so maniacally driven by naked ambition to be powerful, you'd be staring at Ted Cruz. But how often are you hearing the same adjectives toward him?

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Well, I don't necessarily know what Hillary is falling apart means,

 

But considering Greg's actual comments so often due with her "entitlement", how she only cares about being president, her shrieking is annoying, etc,

 

That someones critical opinons of a woman in power may be colored by sexist attitudes without them actually being a sexist person should be clear.

 

I don't believe that everyone who dislikes Hillary clinton does so out of sexism. But there is a lot of baseline comments thrown out that are. And a lot of that has to do with her coming on the scene in the 90s where it was even more open to making very sexist comments and paint every action by her as "manipulative' "devious", etc, something that would not apply to a man. Peoples impressions of Clinton were drilled down 30 years ago, and the idea "that we know her" based off the information in that time period deserves to be called out.

 

If you want to see a candidate so maniacally driven by naked ambition to be powerful, you'd be staring at Ted Cruz. But how often are you hearing the same adjectives toward him?

 

I hear things like this all of the time pointed towards Donald Trump. Even his hair is talked about all of the time. Cruz is routinely painted as a maniac. Bill Clinton has always been painted as the master manipulator and deceiver, and that is well earned.

 

While I won't deny that sexism is a factor for some people, and greg sure likes to put those kind of things forward, for most of us, that isn't the case.

[bmags]

One thing, back to SS and Chisoxfn?'s argument. I was thinking about it a lot this weekend. That Chicago could so rapidly shoot up to 80s/90s levels without any seeming catalyst is quite scary to me in that Drum to this point essentially has the only explanation. Why did crime explode in US for 25 years? We still have no idea.

 

But - can't help but think about Tribune article in november about how Chicago could be skewing their lead test numbers by not testing in areas with recently replaced water mains (to which there have been many in last 5 years).

 

If it is lead, then, that's reassuring we can reverse it. If it isn't, then the United States still doesn't have answers on how to reduce crime.

[cabiness42]

If you want to see a candidate so maniacally driven by naked ambition to be powerful, you'd be staring at Ted Cruz. But how often are you hearing the same adjectives toward him?

 

I think this applies to three of the five candidates.

[bmags]

I hear things like this all of the time pointed towards Donald Trump. Even his hair is talked about all of the time. Cruz is routinely painted as a maniac. Bill Clinton has always been painted as the master manipulator and deceiver, and that is well earned.

 

While I won't deny that sexism is a factor for some people, and greg sure likes to put those kind of things forward, for most of us, that isn't the case.

 

I hear you, but you often had same response when any diagnosis of race baiting and racism in the GOP voter base existed, until this year has basically had the proud 30% show themselves in. And it's fair to bring up that sexist attitudes are a factor in peoples perception of Clinton without it applying to all or you - though I am pointedly saying that sexist attitudes reflect gregs main thrust of Hillary distrust.

 

For Cruz to get the "maniac" label, he had to single handedly try to organize pushing the United States into a default and recession. Hillary gets the same treatment for basically just not being likeable.

 

I can psychoanalyze the clintons all day, but at least a part of their worst behaviors have been a response to the absolute bats*** insane response the GOP had to losing the presidency after holding it for 24 years.

 

[bmags]

I think this applies to three of the five candidates.

 

Well, I disagree. At any level, you would expect desire for power to be a trait for someone who believes they can run the most powerful country in the world.

 

But even for Trump, I don't believe it's desire for power, it's desire for attention. Look at all of his businesses. They haven't been ventures that bring the greatest returns. No matter where he has been it has been something where he can have the most visibility. Presidency provides guaranteed coverage.

[southsider2k5]

I hear you, but you often had same response when any diagnosis of race baiting and racism in the GOP voter base existed, until this year has basically had the proud 30% show themselves in. And it's fair to bring up that sexist attitudes are a factor in peoples perception of Clinton without it applying to all or you - though I am pointedly saying that sexist attitudes reflect gregs main thrust of Hillary distrust.

 

For Cruz to get the "maniac" label, he had to single handedly try to organize pushing the United States into a default and recession. Hillary gets the same treatment for basically just not being likeable.

 

I can psychoanalyze the clintons all day, but at least a part of their worst behaviors have been a response to the absolute bats*** insane response the GOP had to losing the presidency after holding it for 24 years.

 

That is where I disagree with you fully. She isn't getting "the same treatment". During this election cycle, the media has feasted on Donald Trump FAR more than any other candidate. This includes both right and left wing media. Hillary's treatment has no where near approached this level of detail and persistency. I would even say Cruz has gotten a much larger amount of negative attention. I have no doubt in this election cycle, BY FAR the Republican candidates have received a MUCH larger share of negative attention.

 

As for the attention that Clinton has gotten, she is the leading candidate of the Democrats. She deserves an inordinate amount of scrutiny as her party's leader. That only makes sense. If Sanders continues his climb back into this race, that attention will swing towards him more and more. From the negative standpoint, those things have mainly come from the right wing media, and not the media as a whole.

 

Finally the things that Clinton HAS gotten attention for have been well deserved. One theme has come up over and over again no matter what the issue has been. With the litany of both admitted and denied policy and decision making mistakes that Hillary Clinton has made, how are people supposed to believe that she will make the right decision in a moment of importance as President? This is an absolutely fair question when confronted with her record as a whole. Whether it is an attempt to hide corespondence from people on a private server, the "mistake" of the Iraq war, repeating that mistake in Libya, gay marriage, free trade, immigration, etc. This theme has largely been ignored by the press at large in favor of the minutia of the latest stupid thing that Donald Trump said.

 

If she weren't such a legitimately flawed candidate, a hugely flawed candidate like Bernie Sanders wouldn't be sticking around and gaining ground.

[bmags]

Yes, those are legitimate questions of Hillary. They are also not what people are referring to when talking about sexist attitudes toward Clinton.

 

This reminds me of a circular gamergate argument where I'm just going to hear" NO, it's about ethics in gamer journalism".

 

You are free to criticize Hillary Clinton's politics, which Bernie Sanders has done, and successfully.

 

But, if you make sexist critiques against Hillary Clinton, it is allowed to be pointed out. And if the response is "What? You can't criticize Hillary Clinton without being a sexist?", I just don't think that's a good faith argument.

 

Greg's comment had the themes I am sick of seeing. They are toxic not because it affects Hillary Clinton, but because that stuff affects all women, and can be called out.

 

If Greg said "I just don't trust Hillary's judgment because of the Iraq War and Email Servers", and reddy responded "Because you are sexist", then I'd be happy to engage you on this.

 

Hillary Clinton gets many deserved criticism (see entire Sanders left-critique), but there is that extra baggage that exists, and does influence and move a portion of the electorate. There is also a group of the electorate that has legit concerns about her, and also sexist critiques. I'll continue to call both out.