2016 Democratic Thread

[StrangeSox]

Kasich is not a nice guy:

 

http://twitter.com/bgittleson/status/72100...5747713/photo/1

[Buehrle>Wood]

Kasich is not a nice guy:

 

http://twitter.com/bgittleson/status/72100...5747713/photo/1

Aw shucks

[bmags]

Kasich is not a nice guy:

 

http://twitter.com/bgittleson/status/72100...5747713/photo/1

 

Important correction./green

Edited April 15, 2016 by bmags

[StrangeSox]

Uc Davis has spent $175k to try to scrub the OWS pepper spray incident from the Internet

 

 

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education...le71659992.html

[greg775]

Another good opening on SNL this weekend. They've got Hillary down pat I tell ya. That skit two weeks ago on her trying to get in the subway was priceless also the background people. It was obvious they filmed it without shutting the subway down which is cool how New York is too busy to cooperate with a mere national TV show.

[cabiness42]

Kasich is not a nice guy:

 

http://twitter.com/bgittleson/status/72100...5747713/photo/1

 

It was a dumb answer, but which of the following is he supposed to say instead?

 

1) Unconstitutionally castrate any males who look like they might be sexual predators

2) Unconstitutionally change the legal standard for conviction from "beyond reasonable doubt" to "he seems guilty" for sex crimes

3) Increase the deficit by $30 trillion in order to have a federal agent following every woman to keep her safe

 

That's the problem with Americans. We think politicians are supposed to do everything for us instead of taking care of ourselves. If a sexual assault occurs, the government can prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, but that contributes far less to "a feeling of safety" than using common sense.

 

When my daughter becomes a teenager, I'm sure as hell not going to tell her, "do whatever you want and rely on the government to keep you safe." Kasich has teenage daughters, and I'm guessing he doesn't tell his daughters that either.

Edited April 18, 2016 by HickoryHuskers

[pettie4sox]

Politicians can't do much to help someone feel safe from sexual assault. Law enforcement is a reactionary service, so there is no help there either. I think people do need to use wise judgement when they enter a compromised position. The world is full of evil people where people can't let their guard down.

 

It is what it is.

[StrangeSox]

It was a dumb answer, but which of the following is he supposed to say instead?

 

1) Unconstitutionally castrate any males who look like they might be sexual predators

2) Unconstitutionally change the legal standard for conviction from "beyond reasonable doubt" to "he seems guilty" for sex crimes

3) Increase the deficit by $30 trillion in order to have a federal agent following every woman to keep her safe

 

That's the problem with Americans. We think politicians are supposed to do everything for us instead of taking care of ourselves. If a sexual assault occurs, the government can prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, but that contributes far less to "a feeling of safety" than using common sense.

 

When my daughter becomes a teenager, I'm sure as hell not going to tell her, "do whatever you want and rely on the government to keep you safe." Kasich has teenage daughters, and I'm guessing he doesn't tell his daughters that either.

 

The problem is the victim-blaming, not that he didn't have a solid answer for what the President would do regarding sexual assault.

[cabiness42]

The problem is the victim-blaming, not that he didn't have a solid answer for what the President would do regarding sexual assault.

 

It's not victim-blaming, it's giving advice to people on how to best avoid becoming victims. I will tell my daughter 1000 times not to get herself into those situations, but if she does, I'm going to insist on full prosecution of the offender and not tell my daughter, "See, I told you."

[bmags]

It's not victim-blaming, it's giving advice to people on how to best avoid becoming victims. I will tell my daughter 1000 times not to get herself into those situations, but if she does, I'm going to insist on full prosecution of the offender and not tell my daughter, "See, I told you."

 

But the latter continues to happen in police offices, prosecution offices and juries. Feel free to tell your kids not to walk home alone late at night. Go out with friends to parties.

 

That isn't really helpful from a politician though. Would he instead offer to ban alcohol for men, since it seems to cause so much more crime among them?

[cabiness42]

But the latter continues to happen in police offices, prosecution offices and juries. Feel free to tell your kids not to walk home alone late at night. Go out with friends to parties.

 

That isn't really helpful from a politician though. Would he instead offer to ban alcohol for men, since it seems to cause so much more crime among them?

 

Which has nothing to do with what Kasich said. Just because other people are victim-blaming doesn't mean Kasich is. Saying it to a specific victim is very different than answering a general hypothetical question.

[StrangeSox]

Telling women not to go to parties where there will be alcohol is textbook victim blaming.

[bmags]

Which has nothing to do with what Kasich said. Just because other people are victim-blaming doesn't mean Kasich is. Saying it to a specific victim is very different than answering a general hypothetical question.

 

He's a member of the gov't being asked what he would do to keep women safe from sexual assault.

 

The US fed government has a number of levers they've used to try and reduce local crimes, but for sexual assault their lever is to tell women to stay at home. Got it.

 

He's just a dad, talking to his daughter!

[cabiness42]

Telling women not to go to parties where there will be alcohol is textbook victim blaming.

 

Telling women not to go to parties where there will be alcohol is NOT victim blaming.

 

Telling women they shouldn't have gone to a party where there was alcohol is victim blaming.

 

I was a math major, maybe a liberal arts major can come along and elaborate on the difference.

Edited April 18, 2016 by HickoryHuskers

[StrangeSox]

Telling women not to go to parties where there will be alcohol is NOT victim blaming.

 

Telling women they shouldn't have gone to a party where there was alcohol is victim blaming.

 

I was a math major, maybe a liberal arts major can come along and elaborate on the difference.

Whether you say it before or after, it's a crap argument that puts the blame for sexual assault on women, similar to "well, you shouldn't dress/dance that way" Why not tell the men that they shouldn't go to parties with alcohol?

 

edit: if you're making this a hyper-literal argument about the fact that she's not yet a victim if you tell her before she goes to a party/drinks/dances/dresses a certain way, you're missing the forest from the trees. It's still putting the responsibility on women and absolving the sexual assaulters.

Edited April 18, 2016 by StrangeSox

[cabiness42]

He's a member of the gov't being asked what he would do to keep women safe from sexual assault.

 

The US fed government has a number of levers they've used to try and reduce local crimes, but for sexual assault their lever is to tell women to stay at home. Got it.

 

He's just a dad, talking to his daughter!

 

Levers like security cameras and increased patrols can help with stuff like robbery, sure, but sexual assault usually occurs in a room where there is just one (sometimes a few) man and one woman. Do we need to put security cameras in every private room everywhere? Police officers following every woman around to protect them? The nature of the crime doesn't lend itself to any other prevention method aside from education.

 

I guess he could have advocated for longer prison sentences for sex offenders, but then he's a racist for wanting more incarceration of black people (doesn't even matter what the race statistics are on sexual assault, it will get spun that way).

[cabiness42]

Whether you say it before or after, it's a crap argument that puts the blame for sexual assault on women, similar to "well, you shouldn't dress/dance that way" Why not tell the men that they shouldn't go to parties with alcohol?

 

edit: if you're making this a hyper-literal argument about the fact that she's not yet a victim if you tell her before she goes to a party/drinks/dances/dresses a certain way, you're missing the forest from the trees. It's still putting the responsibility on women and absolving the sexual assaulters.

 

No, it's not an either or. You can put responsibility on women without absolving the criminal.

 

If I leave town for a week and leave my garage door open with a suitcase containing $100,000 in it, and it gets stolen, the criminal isn't any less liable than if he broke into my house and cracked my safe to get the money, but everybody would say I'm an idiot for doing what I did.

 

I'm not advocating calling sexual assault victims idiots in any circumstances, but before they become victims it's beneficial to teach them the most common situations where assaults occur and encourage them to avoid those situations.

 

Oh, and if any man has a history of not being able to control himself around alcohol, I'd most definitely advise him not to go to parties with alcohol due to the increased vulnerability of not only being a perpetrator but also a victim of a crime.

Edited April 18, 2016 by HickoryHuskers

[CrimsonWeltall]

Whether you say it before or after, it's a crap argument that puts the blame for sexual assault on women

 

It doesn't put blame on them at all. It just points out an action that can be taken to help avoid being victimized. Is any advice geared towards crime-avoidance a case of victim-blaming?

[StrangeSox]

It doesn't put blame on them at all. It just points out an action that can be taken to help avoid being victimized. Is any advice geared towards crime-avoidance a case of victim-blaming?

When the advice comes in the form of telling an entire gender not to participate in common social activities rather than focusing on the perpetrators and their behavior, it is victim-blaming.

[CrimsonWeltall]

When the advice comes in the form of telling an entire gender not to participate in common social activities rather than focusing on the perpetrators and their behavior, it is victim-blaming.

 

I thought it was pretty clear that the real message was "don't get totally wasted", not simply avoiding parties where alcohol is present.

[cabiness42]

When the advice comes in the form of telling an entire gender not to participate in common social activities rather than focusing on the perpetrators and their behavior, it is victim-blaming.

 

So what you're saying is that women are too stupid to take a general statement made by Kasich and apply it practically to their own lives?

[bmags]

No, he's saying that women are smart enough to read that statement by Kasich and see the pervasive attitude that women that participate in social events are by the nature of being there "asking for it".

[CrimsonWeltall]

No, he's saying that women are smart enough to read that statement by Kasich and see the pervasive attitude that women that participate in social events are by the nature of being there "asking for it".

 

You really believe that John Kasich thinks any women that goes to parties with alcohol are "asking for" rape?

 

That's ignoring the obvious (and charitable) subtext in favor of one that produces maximum outrage.

[illinilaw08]

I thought it was pretty clear that the real message was "don't get totally wasted", not simply avoiding parties where alcohol is present.

 

The exact quote is "Well, I would give you, I'd also like to give one bit of advice. Don't go to parties where there's a lot of alcohol. Ok? Don't do that."

 

I'm not sure that I see where it's clear the message is "don't get totally wasted." But rather "don't put yourself around drunk boys."

 

I could defend Kasich by saying that he was giving what he considered to be common sense advice to a student who was particularly concerned about her own safety (and I don't think that would be inappropriate). I could decry his statement by saying he doesn't get to the root cause of the sexual assault problem on college campuses other than to tell women not to go to parties with lots of alcohol, following a decades old stance of victim blaming victims of rape (if she hadn't gone to that alcohol party, she wouldn't have gotten raped).

 

Hopefully Kasich cleans up his message on this point...

 

 

[cabiness42]

No, he's saying that women are smart enough to read that statement by Kasich and see the pervasive attitude that women that participate in social events are by the nature of being there "asking for it".

 

No, YOU are projecting that attitude onto Kasich and inciting others to be outraged by it. He didn't say what he didn't say.