2016 Democratic Thread

[ptatc]

Someone remind me how Rauner got elected?

He ran on the platform "I'm not them" Similar to Trump.

[ptatc]

Someone remind me how Madigan continues to rule the state? They passed a budget that was unconstitutional. Rauner is doing the right thing IMO by telling Madigan to go jump in a lake. Standing up to Madigan and his cronies is exactly what this state needs.

 

Sadly, the stupid people of this state will blame Rauner and Madigan will continue to hold all the power.

He raises property taxes then uses his law firm to to appeal the taxes and gets people a reduced tax rate. thus the people in his district vote for him.

 

It's simple. He doesn't care about the people only the power.

[ptatc]

That's true. I have to say I'm surprised at how disjointed the democrats still are. And honestly am a bit surprised at how difficult it was for them even to push that budget through. The madigan power mold does need to get broken up. He isn't holding the coalition together nearly enough (mainly because it's not an ideological coalition).

 

That said, I knew he wasn't going to be Scott Walker in the state and is not, he doesn't have the power to be. But I still think in the long run we are better off than if Quinn had gotten elected.

The only thing that will truly help politics in Illinois is term limits. Allow no one to accumulate the power he has.

[Balta1701]

The only thing that will truly help politics in Illinois is term limits. Allow no one to accumulate the power he has.

For reference - this model may not apply to Illinois for various reasons, but term limits for California did the exact opposite. They removed people who were gaining experience in dealing with issues and instead put every seat up to a primary every 2 cycles, such that the Democrat and Republican conferences basically became completely homogeneous and locked in behind the extreme sides on every vote/budget. Anyone who had any experience at compromising was removed rapidly. That made the state virtually ungovernable until the Democrats pulled off a Supermajority in the state Assembly and finally could pass a budget every year without having to negotiate at all.

[Balta1701]

The prop 8 idiots in California tried a similar argument because the judge in their case was gay. Only straight white men have the power of impartiality! That argument literally for laughed out of court though, and that's part of the reason I don't think trumps judge is going to suffer any adverse consequences from being the target of trumps explicit racism.

He tripled down on it on CNN this afternoon.

[Balta1701]

I don't know what to do with the phrase "Look at my African American over here" but I want to do something with it. Suggestions?

[caulfield12]

So everyone out to get Trump in the future...since 99% of Americans have "non pure" blood due to migration from another part of the world in their genealogy. "out to get Trump!"

 

And, of course, that other 1% is those pesky Native Americans who are also "out to screw over Trump" on casino deals "hiding behind their political correctness and still expecting handouts from the government because our ancestors made their life a wee bit difficult back in the day."

 

 

I really think everyone needs to watch that documentary "You've Been Trumped." 83% at rottentomatoes.com.

 

(This is where Greg will state everyone's avoiding reading all the anti-Hillary books and right wing "think tank" mockumentaries on the Clintons that make "COLLAPSE" look like an SNL skit.)

[greg775]

So everyone out to get Trump in the future...since 99% of Americans have "non pure" blood due to migration from another part of the world in their genealogy. "out to get Trump!"

 

And, of course, that other 1% is those pesky Native Americans who are also "out to screw over Trump" on casino deals "hiding behind their political correctness and still expecting handouts from the government because our ancestors made their life a wee bit difficult back in the day."

 

 

I really think everyone needs to watch that documentary "You've Been Trumped." 83% at rottentomatoes.com.

 

(This is where Greg will state everyone's avoiding reading all the anti-Hillary books and right wing "think tank" mockumentaries on the Clintons that make "COLLAPSE" look like an SNL skit.)

The bottom line is the media wants Hilary to win badly and is doing all in its power to make it happen and will continue to do so. Trump is an evil jerk, we all know that. Hillary is just as bad a person, actually probably worse. The choices are stupifying. They are beyond belief. We are voting between Donald Trump and Hillary CLinton?? Thank goodness presidents have very little actual power.

[Quin]

The bottom line is the media wants Hilary to win badly and is doing all in its power to make it happen and will continue to do so. Drumpf is an evil jerk, we all know that. Hillary is just as bad a person, actually probably worse. The choices are stupifying. They are beyond belief. We are voting between Donald Drumpf and Hillary CLinton?? Thank goodness presidents have very little actual power.

 

Nah

[ptatc]

For reference - this model may not apply to Illinois for various reasons, but term limits for California did the exact opposite. They removed people who were gaining experience in dealing with issues and instead put every seat up to a primary every 2 cycles, such that the Democrat and Republican conferences basically became completely homogeneous and locked in behind the extreme sides on every vote/budget. Anyone who had any experience at compromising was removed rapidly. That made the state virtually ungovernable until the Democrats pulled off a Supermajority in the state Assembly and finally could pass a budget every year without having to negotiate at all.

This could be true, however it would still keep anyone person from having the power that Madigan has amassed over the years. I would rather have the group wield the power not the individual.

[StrangeSox]

[LittleHurt05]

The bottom line is the media wants Hilary to win badly and is doing all in its power to make it happen and will continue to do so. Trump is an evil jerk, we all know that. Hillary is just as bad a person, actually probably worse. The choices are stupifying. They are beyond belief. We are voting between Donald Trump and Hillary CLinton?? Thank goodness presidents have very little actual power.

 

I am a lifelong Republican and Clinton family hater. There is zero chance that Hillary is a worse person than Trump. ZERO. ZILCH.

[greg775]

I am a lifelong Republican and Clinton family hater. There is zero chance that Hillary is a worse person than Trump. ZERO. ZILCH.

I saw incredible comedian Barry Trimmins' show tonight, the guy who will have a special on Louis CK, and he says Hillary is despicable. Also Trump. He really railed on Hillary, however, and also said he wouldn't vote for a Republican EVER for president if somebody held a gun to his head. He said yes you can hate both.

[southsider2k5]

 

Here is the problem with this. The politics of race just blew up in the faces of the left wing. For generations now there have been those who have assigned traits to entire races, such as that people who aren't of a minority race can't possibly understand them, nor can they fairly judge them because they aren't one of them. Now you have one of the greatest political manipulators who has come along and picked up that exact logic to conclude that if whites can't judge minorities fairly, how can it work in reverse? This situation is exactly why the generations of claims about races not being able to fairly judge other races is so insulting. Now that exactly this has used by an idiot like Trump people can see through the thinly veiled racism behind this broad concept that insults entire races of people. Hopefully people learn from this and quit using it in every day life.

[StrangeSox]

That's a pretty ridiculous take.

 

Eta do you really not see a difference between claiming a judge with Mexican heritage can't judge you impartially because of your garbage immigration views and the idea that lived experiences give different perspectives? U can boil that down to a pithy "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" and that's not even close to what the orange baby con man is saying.

Edited June 5, 2016 by StrangeSox

[southsider2k5]

That's a pretty ridiculous take.

 

Eta do you really not see a difference between claiming a judge with Mexican heritage can't judge you impartially because of your garbage immigration views and the idea that lived experiences give different perspectives? U can boil that down to a pithy "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" and that's not even close to what the orange baby con man is saying.

 

I see both of them as 100% racist ideals, and one feeds off of the other.

[StrangeSox]

Can you actually explain how "being black gives you a different perspective on race" is racist and how it's similar to trumps explicit racism?

 

Does "black like me" represent a racist ideal, and if so, can you say what that ideal is?

Edited June 5, 2016 by StrangeSox

[southsider2k5]

Can you actually explain how "being black gives you a different perspective on race" is racist and how it's similar to trumps explicit racism?

 

Does "black like me" represent a racist ideal, and if so, can you say what that ideal is?

 

The idea that a white jury can't fairly judge a black male is exactly what Trump is saying about a Mexican judge being fair to white people. Both are ridiculous.

[StrangeSox]

That comparison only works if you ignore the differences in racial power and social structures.

 

Basically agree to disagree, but from an actual leftist it liberal perspective, what you're saying doesn't add up and so it looks pretty silly to to try to blame trumps explicit anti minority /pro white supremacy rhetoric on an ideology that focuses on racial power structures in the first place.

Edited June 5, 2016 by StrangeSox

[southsider2k5]

That comparison only works if you ignore the differences in racial power and social structures.

 

Basically agree to disagree, but from an actual leftist it liberal perspective, what you're saying doesn't add up and so it looks pretty silly to to try to blame trumps explicit anti minority /pro white supremacy rhetoric on an ideology that focuses on racial power structures in the first place.

 

Of course it is excused from a leftist perspective. That is how Trump easily can take it and make it his own. Doesn't make either any less racist of an idea.

[StrangeSox]

Oh ok. This is more about your incessant need to prove that is actually liberals' fault for everything bad.

[StrangeSox]

I mean honestly you're trying to say that trumps racism is something that arose out of fairly modern liberal views on race rather than something that's been the bedrock of this country's white supremacist history. It's just ridiculous.

[caulfield12]

So the disproportionate incarceration rates for African-American and Hispanic males...or the ridiculous probability of a black person killing a white being person being 6-8X times more likely to receive the death penalty than a white killing a black person, you can just overlook all that institutional prejudice/bias/racism not only from predominantly white juries (in the South) but also a slew of judges and police departments?

 

And the antithesis of that is Trump?

Hmmm...

 

 

I do find one thing quite odd, though. There is a double standard about the way lots of politicians and entertainers/comedians treat Asian people (for example, the Oscars jokes or Trump vilifying Chinese leaders everyday). Is this because Asians are perceived to now being equal or more successful than whites in terms of educational attainment or social status in the US (and also due to success of the Asian Tigers and rise of China)? Easier targets? Nobody to step up and defend them because "Asians are meek and humble and won't fight back" other than Jeremy Lin, because he represents ALL Asian/Chinese people in the US and went to Harvard?

Edited June 5, 2016 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Oh ok. This is more about your incessant need to prove that is actually liberals' fault for everything bad.

 

More like the naivety that racism solves racism, instead of causing more racism.

[southsider2k5]

So the disproportionate incarceration rates for African-American and Hispanic males...or the ridiculous probability of a black person killing a white being person being 6-8X times more likely to receive the death penalty than a white killing a black person, you can just overlook all that institutional prejudice/bias/racism not only from predominantly white juries (in the South) but also a slew of judges and police departments?

And the antithesis of that is Trump?

Hmmm...

 

 

I do find one thing quite odd, though. There is a double standard about the way lots of politicians and entertainers/comedians treat Asian people (for example, the Oscars jokes or Trump vilifying Chinese leaders everyday). Is this because Asians are perceived to now being equal or more successful than whites in terms of educational attainment or social status in the US (and also due to success of the Asian Tigers and rise of China)? Easier targets? Nobody to step up and defend them because "Asians are meek and humble and won't fight back" other than Jeremy Lin, because he represents ALL Asian/Chinese people in the US and went to Harvard?

 

Only white people can be racist and biased as judges, juries, and police? This is the entire problem with this line of thinking. If only the same race can judge a race fairly, how is Trump wrong?