2016 Democratic Thread

[StrangeSox]

Only white people can be racist and biased as judges, juries, and police? This is the entire problem with this line of thinking. If only the same race can judge a race fairly, how is Trump wrong?

It's just a basic statistical fact of what happens more frequently when all white juries try minorities or whites accused of crimes against minorities. It's something that is well recognized by social scientists and judges and Lawyers.

 

Racism doesn't solve racism, but neither does wilful ignorance. Recognizing racial power structures and how they don't work equally for both sides is a necessary step to addressing racism. Pretending it doesn't exist only perpetuates the issue.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Only white people can be racist and biased as judges, juries, and police? This is the entire problem with this line of thinking. If only the same race can judge a race fairly, how is Trump wrong?

 

I haven't heard anyone promote either of those positions - that only white people can be biased, or that people can only judge their own race fairly.

 

But anyway, Trump isn't even claiming that the judge is racist against white people. He's claiming the judge is prejudiced against Trump specifically because of the judge's race (ethnicity actually), and the fact that Trump has made anti-Mexican comments.

 

"Hey, this guy can't judge me fairly. I've been s***ting all over his heritage!"

 

Next he'll get a female judge and claim she has a conflict of interest because he s***s on women. Then he'll get a Muslim judge and claim he has a conflict of interest because he s***s on Muslims. And so on.

[Jerksticks]

I'm not a trump supporter at all, but hillary and the entire media need to get off this racist crap. The guy is bringing issues to the forefront that career politicians haven't the balls to speak of. And I get both sides of it but this taking words too literally needs to stop. For example:

 

The Syrian Refugee thing. Like all Trump's saying is the idea of thousands of refugees coming here scares the s*** out of people. Sure the way he said it grabbed headlines, but cmon, does anybody HONESTLY think Trump hates Muslim people? Of course not- you'd be naive to think he supports the inhumane. The American people are scared of terrorism and they deserve more than a wide-open door. They need to know that government is "on the muthaf***a", so to speak. Somebody needs to bring it up.

 

The Mexican rapist thing. All he's saying is the f***ing cartels are scaring the s*** out of our border residents, and people cross over all day wihout much stopping them. White's and Hispanics down there are scared to death that murderers, rapists, whatever run free in towns like Laredo etc. But the media spins it that ALL Mexicans are rapists blah blah. STFU. While only a small percentage of our population, border people are scared to death. What's wrong with shoring it up down there...or at least talking about it without political redtape soaking the issue. Immigration and the border has made zero progress in decades. Same s*** every day.

 

I'm not voting for Trump but I'm glad he's changing the culture of politics a little bit. He's the first candidate I can remember that doesn't seem like a puppet. Hillary is a total puppet. And now she needs to get in the ring snd fight. Can't wait for the debates to start. We'll see how presidential she is in the face of raw power coming at her.

[Quin]

I'm not a trump supporter at all, but hillary and the entire media need to get off this racist crap. The guy is bringing issues to the forefront that career politicians haven't the balls to speak of. And I get both sides of it but this taking words too literally needs to stop. For example:

 

The Syrian Refugee thing. Like all Drumpf's saying is the idea of thousands of refugees coming here scares the s*** out of people. Sure the way he said it grabbed headlines, but cmon, does anybody HONESTLY think Drumpf hates Muslim people? Of course not- you'd be naive to think he supports the inhumane. The American people are scared of terrorism and they deserve more than a wide-open door. They need to know that government is "on the muthaf***a", so to speak. Somebody needs to bring it up.

 

The Mexican rapist thing. All he's saying is the f***ing cartels are scaring the s*** out of our border residents, and people cross over all day wihout much stopping them. White's and Hispanics down there are scared to death that murderers, rapists, whatever run free in towns like Laredo etc. But the media spins it that ALL Mexicans are rapists blah blah. STFU. While only a small percentage of our population, border people are scared to death. What's wrong with shoring it up down there...or at least talking about it without political redtape soaking the issue. Immigration and the border has made zero progress in decades. Same s*** every day.

 

I'm not voting for Drumpf but I'm glad he's changing the culture of politics a little bit. He's the first candidate I can remember that doesn't seem like a puppet. Hillary is a total puppet. And now she needs to get in the ring snd fight. Can't wait for the debates to start. We'll see how presidential she is in the face of raw power coming at her.

 

I have no doubt she'll murder him in debates. She has incredibly thick skin, he's got incredibly thin skin.

 

He won't have Jeb! to push over either. He's locked in the room with her, not the other way around.

 

[southsider2k5]

It's just a basic statistical fact of what happens more frequently when all white juries try minorities or whites accused of crimes against minorities. It's something that is well recognized by social scientists and judges and Lawyers.

 

Racism doesn't solve racism, but neither does wilful ignorance. Recognizing racial power structures and how they don't work equally for both sides is a necessary step to addressing racism. Pretending it doesn't exist only perpetuates the issue.

 

If you honestly believe this, how do those things not work in reverse? That is the problem with this entire line of thought... it really isn't linear.

[bmags]

I have no doubt she'll murder him in debates. She has incredibly thick skin, he's got incredibly thin skin.

 

He won't have Jeb! to push over either. He's locked in the room with her, not the other way around.

 

I don't think it's possible to destroy Trump in a debate, similarly to Palin. When the standards are so low, any moment of coherence from Trump and everyone thinks "oh my god, he's winning!". He has an incredibly effective "politicians are corrupt and shills" line which he can deflect and get back to easily.

 

 

[CrimsonWeltall]

If you honestly believe this, how do those things not work in reverse? That is the problem with this entire line of thought... it really isn't linear.

 

Maybe they would in theory, but demographics prevent it. How likely is it that a white defendant is going to get a jury of 12 racial minorities?

[caulfield12]

Do you honestly believe that Donald Trump actually believes all those things he's saying?

 

The problem is that there is that "true believer" group...whether it's 15-25% or whatever of the US population, who will take his words seriously and feel that he will represent their interests.

 

One issue is institutional racism...the cases that are VERY VERY hard to prove because the whole system lines up to protect itself and whistleblowers are still strongly discouraged in our culture. It's very subtle and under the surface and seemingly innocuous statements that are "speaking in code."

 

The other is whether there actually can be such a thing as reverse racism....especially if the "victim" (in this case Trump) is the one that provoked a bias in others by his incendiary comments.

 

Can all the residents of Mexico realistically be expected to be fair and unbiased in their opinions on Trump? Would they vote for him to prove they're perfectly capable of being objective intellectually and not racist, as quite a few independent voters supposedly did for Kennedy in 1960 (to prove they weren't anti-Catholic, for Gore-Lieberman in 2000 (not anti-Jewish), Mondale/Ferraro in the 1984 (not anti-female or feminist) or Obama in 2008 (not racist/anti-black).

 

 

[pettie4sox]

Maybe they would in theory, but demographics prevent it. How likely is it that a white defendant is going to get a jury of 12 racial minorities?

 

LMAO you might have better odds of winning the mega millions.

[southsider2k5]

Maybe they would in theory, but demographics prevent it. How likely is it that a white defendant is going to get a jury of 12 racial minorities?

 

And in reality, Trump is dealing with a minority judge, which means you are assigning some level of reality to what he is saying.

[bmags]

Juries aren't judges. Judges are legally trained and presumably able to look at bodies of evidence and apply prior standing and logic to create a judgment. They have their ideologies but those would apply to the CASE not the defendant.

 

The consitution says "jury of our peers". Clearly they believed prejudice existed.

[Big Hurtin]

I don't think it's possible to destroy Trump in a debate, similarly to Palin. When the standards are so low, any moment of coherence from Trump and everyone thinks "oh my god, he's winning!". He has an incredibly effective "politicians are corrupt and shills" line which he can deflect and get back to easily.

I'm interested in seeing him in a more neutral environment, where every insult isn't met with an applause break.

[bmags]

I'm interested in seeing him in a more neutral environment, where every insult isn't met with an applause break.

 

That's true.

[CrimsonWeltall]

And in reality, Trump is dealing with a minority judge, which means you are assigning some level of reality to what he is saying.

 

No, I'm not. One cannot apply aggregate statistics for a group to every individual within that group.

 

And as I mentioned before, Trump isn't claiming that the judge is biased against white people. He's claiming that the judge is biased against him specifically (Trump) due to Trump's anti-Mexican stances.

[Jenksismyhero]

I have no doubt she'll murder him in debates. She has incredibly thick skin, he's got incredibly thin skin.

 

He won't have Jeb! to push over either. He's locked in the room with her, not the other way around.

 

On the other hand, she's going to come off as the career politician and he's going to come off as Six Pack Joe. Both will come off exactly as their supporters want them to.

[Jerksticks]

On the other hand, she's going to come off as the career politician and he's going to come off as Six Pack Joe. Both will come off exactly as their supporters want them to.

But who's going to sway the middle more? This election is interesting because huge chunks of each party don't like their candidates. I just have a hard time thinking Hillary wins the middle and leaners. She's not exciting, she doesn't really stand for anything new, and just generally doesn't seem to care about America as much as becoming the first female president. That's just my personal take, but it's a take that's shared by probably millions upon millions of Americans.

 

f***, I'm sitting this election out ??

[Soxbadger]

Here is the problem with this. The politics of race just blew up in the faces of the left wing. For generations now there have been those who have assigned traits to entire races, such as that people who aren't of a minority race can't possibly understand them, nor can they fairly judge them because they aren't one of them. Now you have one of the greatest political manipulators who has come along and picked up that exact logic to conclude that if whites can't judge minorities fairly, how can it work in reverse? This situation is exactly why the generations of claims about races not being able to fairly judge other races is so insulting. Now that exactly this has used by an idiot like Trump people can see through the thinly veiled racism behind this broad concept that insults entire races of people. Hopefully people learn from this and quit using it in every day life.

 

(this isnt really directed at you SS2k, just wanted to start somewhere.)

 

 

I think the best answer is that this is the exact reason Trump isnt qualified to be President. I happen to work in a field where I hear this type of nonsense all the time. It wasnt fair because X was Y and I am not Y. The people who I speak to about this are generally not people who I would consider qualified to run as President of a preschool class, let alone President of the United States.

 

 

But, I think the most damning part of this is that instead of actually trying to follow the rules and win his case, he is whining to the media. That is all Trump does, whine whine whine whine. There are rules in court, you can do things like file a motion to substitute a judge. In IL you can substitute a judge by right, meaning that you can always change it to start. You can also file a motion for cause. But it appears Trump did or has done none of that. Instead he is whining and grandstanding.

 

If people think that Trump is going to beat the Putin's of the world by whining to the media, they are foolish.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Soxbadger

[CrimsonWeltall]

But it appears Trump did or has done none of that. Instead he is whining and grandstanding.

 

Of course he's not doing that. Do you think Trump's lawyers would be willing to file a motion to dismiss the judge because he's Mexican? I don't think the Bar would look too favorably on that.

 

Whining is his only option, and it's effective. When he loses the case (which seems pretty obvious - those unsealed records are completely damning), all his followers will believe the result is bogus, and those damn Mexicans are victimizing people again.

[Heads22]

AP reports Hillary has enough delegates.

[StrangeSox]

If you honestly believe this, how do those things not work in reverse? That is the problem with this entire line of thought... it really isn't linear.

Structural racism isn't a two way street. The prejudices and assumptions minorities face aren't the same as a white person is going to face. That's why it doesn't work in reverse. That's easy the Supreme Court will throw out a case when it's shown that the prosecution worked to get an all white jury for a minority defendant - they are well aware of these realities.

 

So it's not linear, and trumps racism doesn't actually flow logically from a recognition of structural racism.

[caulfield12]

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/c...ticle-1.2663333

 

Maybe she is the answer for Donald Trump's domestic policy advisor???

[caulfield12]

Trump simply is a bomb-thrower and the winner of a reality show (running for president) not even he and his advisors planned to win until 2/3rd's of the way through.

 

That said, I can't imagine him setting America back any more than 8 years of GW Bush did.

[greg775]

AP reports Hillary has enough delegates.

Will they still have the California primary if she's got the nomination? If they do have it ... now Hillary has ANOTHER built in laughing point if Bernie wins yet another primary. She'll just laugh and say, "I am the nominee, so in effect, I won today." And she'll brush Bernie off her lapel like the innocent gnat he proved to be.

 

It's also sad cause these reports might keep people home and again harm Bernie's chances. This is such bulls***. It's all fixed. The Democrat higher-ups wanted Hillary, they got Hillary. If I was a Bernie supporter no way in hell I'd support Hillary after this fix-job. it's ridiculous. They made it so tough on Bernie. whatever happened to the Democratic process in the f***ing Democratic party?

Edited June 7, 2016 by greg775

[pettie4sox]

Will they still have the California primary if she's got the nomination? If they do have it ... now Hillary has ANOTHER built in laughing point if Bernie wins yet another primary. She'll just laugh and say, "I am the nominee, so in effect, I won today." And she'll brush Bernie off her lapel like the innocent gnat he proved to be.

 

It's also sad cause these reports might keep people home and again harm Bernie's chances. This is such bulls***. It's all fixed. The Democrat higher-ups wanted Hillary, they got Hillary. If I was a Bernie supporter no way in hell I'd support Hillary after this fix-job. it's ridiculous. They made it so tough on Bernie. whatever happened to the Democratic process in the f***ing Democratic party?

 

Howard Stern says Hillary is good. So why does it matter, greg?

[Quin]

Will they still have the California primary if she's got the nomination? If they do have it ... now Hillary has ANOTHER built in laughing point if Bernie wins yet another primary. She'll just laugh and say, "I am the nominee, so in effect, I won today." And she'll brush Bernie off her lapel like the innocent gnat he proved to be.

 

It's also sad cause these reports might keep people home and again harm Bernie's chances. This is such bulls***. It's all fixed. The Democrat higher-ups wanted Hillary, they got Hillary. If I was a Bernie supporter no way in hell I'd support Hillary after this fix-job. it's ridiculous. They made it so tough on Bernie. whatever happened to the Democratic process in the f***ing Democratic party?

 

There was no fix, but now King Bernie the Sanctimonious wants a coronation at the DNC instead f the democratically elected nominee.