2016 Democratic Thread

[bmags]

Well I'm anxious to hear the incredible platforms we'll be seeing from the Green Party and Libertarian parties. Seems crazy they are so unpopular with such great platforms.

[StrangeSox]

Compared to the rest of this election cycle, meh.

Hillary's policy proposals are all fairly standard Democratic positions.

 

I can concede that the Libertarian Party's craziness is comparable to Trump's (in amount of crazy, not specific policies), though. Wanting to completely abolish all federal regulations, public education, and public health (Medicare) while also wanting competing (non-fiat, of course!) currencies is bonkers.

[StrangeSox]

The whole deal with every f***ing problem yourself policy?

from the 3rd party thread

 

A reminder that the Libertarian Party's official stance is against essentially all regulations including environmental, safety and health and that they oppose the public accommodations requirements of the Civil Rights Act. They oppose the government issuing debt aka US Treasury Bonds; want to abolish the income tax; want to abolish all social safety net programs such as social security, medicare and medicaid; and they oppose a standard legal tender issued by a central bank, instead favoring competing currencies offered by different banks (this has been tried to disastrous results in the past). They would abolish public education. This is all straight from their official party platform. I would not agree that they are a reasonable party and instead argue that they have a very radical ideology, with the ultimate goal to essentially reset the government to what is was in the late 19th century.

 

edit: of course, a vote for a party doesn't mean you embrace their entire platform, but they're not the "cut taxes a bit and legalize pot, who cares about conservative social issues" party.

 

 

If you want to mainline some of the good (terrible) stuff that's the core of libertarian philosophy, poke around places like lew rockwell and mises institute. Hope you like hearing about things like why child labor laws are actually bad, confederate apologia, arguments for why slavery wasn't so terrible/taxes slavery and thus the cruelest thing ever, etc.

[southsider2k5]

Hillary's policy proposals are all fairly standard Democratic positions.

 

I can concede that the Libertarian Party's craziness is comparable to Trump's (in amount of crazy, not specific policies), though. Wanting to completely abolish all federal regulations, public education, and public health (Medicare) while also wanting competing (non-fiat, of course!) currencies is bonkers.

 

The difference is I hear Bernie's platform as a special amount of crazy.

[StrangeSox]

The difference is I hear Bernie's platform as a special amount of crazy.

It's more or less boilerplate New Deal Democrat stuff; it doesn't come close to approaching the crazy of "nukes for everyone! ban muslims! build a wall!" or "reset the federal government to 1885". But good news! Bernie Sanders is not going to be the Democratic candidate, so your concerns are abated.

[pettie4sox]

from the 3rd party thread

 

 

 

 

If you want to mainline some of the good (terrible) stuff that's the core of libertarian philosophy, poke around places like lew rockwell and mises institute. Hope you like hearing about things like why child labor laws are actually bad, confederate apologia, arguments for why slavery wasn't so terrible/taxes slavery and thus the cruelest thing ever, etc.

 

That sounds quite archaic and reckless.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

It's more or less boilerplate New Deal Democrat stuff; it doesn't come close to approaching the crazy of "nukes for everyone! ban muslims! build a wall!" or "reset the federal government to 1885". But good news! Bernie Sanders is not going to be the Democratic candidate, so your concerns are abated.

 

It isn't for you. It is for me.

 

Also there is zero chance of me every voting for Hillary Clinton. None.

[StrangeSox]

That sounds quite archaic and reckless.

Welcome to libertarianism!

 

As bmags said, there's a reason* 3rd parties in this country only get a small percentage of voters. They may look nice as a protest vote, but dig into their ideology and it goes crazy fast. Like the "5 minute rule" with Ron Paul--listen to him talk for five minutes, and he might sound reasonable. As soon as he hits that five minute mark, the pants go on the head.

 

*structural reasons too based on the way our government is set up and how elections are won forcing two major coalition parties rather than more fractured parties who form coalitions within government after elections e.g. British parliament.

[bmags]

It isn't for you. It is for me.

 

Also there is zero chance of me every voting for Hillary Clinton. None.

 

I'm fine with you not voting for Clinton if you at least acknowledge that the "crazy" you administer to the Democrats in their nomination for president is not the other side of the coin to the Republicans nominating Trump.

[StrangeSox]

 

Follow

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump

I really like the Koch Brothers (members of my P.B. Club), but I don't want their money or anything else from them. Cannot influence Trump!

7:00 PM - 29 Jul 2015 · Manhattan, NY, United States

1,543 1,543 Retweets 3,088 3,088 likes

 

Follow

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump

I wish good luck to all of the Republican candidates that traveled to California to beg for money etc. from the Koch Brothers. Puppets?

9:00 AM - 2 Aug 2015

6,685 6,685 Retweets 9,690 9,690 likes

 

Follow

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump

Little Marco Rubio, the lightweight no show Senator from Florida, is set to be the "puppet" of the special interest Koch brothers. WATCH!

10:07 AM - 28 Feb 2016

3,805 3,805 Retweets 10,033 10,033 likes

 

 

Koch's team to meet Trump's camp

[StrangeSox]

Some battleground polls from PPP:

 

We find a close race in Pennsylvania- Hillary Clinton 41, Donald Trump 40, Gary Johnson 6, Jill Stein 3:

 

Why PA is so close- GOP more unified around Trump (79/8) than Dems are around Clinton (75/15). Same in FL yesterday:

 

however

 

If Clinton eventually won over even half of Sanders supporters in PA who say they aren't for her right now, her lead would go from 1 pt to 7

[southsider2k5]

I'm fine with you not voting for Clinton if you at least acknowledge that the "crazy" you administer to the Democrats in their nomination for president is not the other side of the coin to the Republicans nominating Trump.

 

The socialist planks are a different kind of crazy, but a crazy just the same, at least in my eyes.

[StrangeSox]

A health care access system that's on par with every other industrialized nation on the planet and a plan for expanding free school to include college (something that worked well for California for decades and works for other countries as well!) is not on par with calls to essentially abolish the federal government, to build the largest wall in the world to keep out immigrants, or a blanket ban on visas for a particular religion.

[Texsox]

BTW, I prefer to think of free college more in terms of expanding public education from 13 years to 15 or even 17 years. A good start would be 15 years. That would then include either two years extra of remedial K-12 years, a couple years of trade, tech, or community college, or if you do enough concurrent enrollment or AP classes, it would get you pretty darn close to a bachelor's degree. And that is really what is being proposed, extending the 13 years that we already provide.

[StrangeSox]

BTW, I prefer to think of free college more in terms of expanding public education from 13 years to 15 or even 17 years. A good start would be 15 years. That would then include either two years extra of remedial K-12 years, a couple years of trade, tech, or community college, or if you do enough concurrent enrollment or AP classes, it would get you pretty darn close to a bachelor's degree. And that is really what is being proposed, extending the 13 years that we already provide.

 

Exactly.

[ptatc]

This election is tough. For how much I dislike Hillary there is still no way I could vote for Trump. Im just going to vote for Gary Johnson.

I keep thinking the same thing. however, let's be honest we know it's either Trump or Clinton. Voting any other way is as good as not voting. So I'm really trying hard to find the lesser of the evils.

[pettie4sox]

I keep thinking the same thing. however, let's be honest we know it's either Trump or Clinton. Voting any other way is as good as not voting. So I'm really trying hard to find the lesser of the evils.

 

Here's the thing. Not living in a swing state allows you to be loose as hell with your vote to some extent.

[ptatc]

A health care access system that's on par with every other industrialized nation on the planet and a plan for expanding free school to include college (something that worked well for California for decades and works for other countries as well!) is not on par with calls to essentially abolish the federal government, to build the largest wall in the world to keep out immigrants, or a blanket ban on visas for a particular religion.

Those are both awful ideas. Working with international athletes alot, there is a reason they come to the US for care. Free college is also an awful idea, talk about a way to really increase debt.

 

government is far too big and costs far too much for little gain.

 

I know you won't agree with any of those ideas but I just wanted to respond.

[ptatc]

BTW, I prefer to think of free college more in terms of expanding public education from 13 years to 15 or even 17 years. A good start would be 15 years. That would then include either two years extra of remedial K-12 years, a couple years of trade, tech, or community college, or if you do enough concurrent enrollment or AP classes, it would get you pretty darn close to a bachelor's degree. And that is really what is being proposed, extending the 13 years that we already provide.

I could get on board up to an associates degree. There are far too many student in 4 year institutions now who don't belong. And that is not a knock on them. It isn't for everyone. I think the free college degree will "force" too many into thinking they need to go when they 1. don't really want to or 2. really aren't able to handle it.

 

I think the money for this program would really be better spent on improving the K-12 to prepare the ones who do want to go and prerpare them better, increase the opportunity at that level.

[ptatc]

Here's the thing. Not living in a swing state allows you to be loose as hell with your vote to some extent.

True. But to me I still want it to mean something to me. Even though in the actual voting only Clinton has a chance in Illinois.

[pettie4sox]

True. But to me I still want it to mean something to me. Even though in the actual voting only Clinton has a chance in Illinois.

 

That's completely understandable.

[Heads22]

Crossing my fingers that Hillary talks Joe Biden into doing the VP thing for another eight years, if for no other reason than The Onion articles.

 

[greg775]

I would like an honest answer from you folks. My question, "Was Bernie treated fairly this primary season? Or was he robbed?"

 

My answer to you is he was robbed. CNN declared Hillary the winner before the California primary which is bulls*** considering it cost him California. Why go vote if it's been decided? Also, he's not a fricking socialist, he's a Democratic socialist. We already have socialist aspects to society. He just wants more: free college education, free health care, etc. He is not the lunatic fringe nut the media portrayed him to be. And finally, he was robbed because of the Democrat's ridiculous superdelegate system. All the people Hillary has catered to rewarded her with their support. Of all the great women out there I can't believe she gets the honor of being first female president. My gosh, if the government was more aggressive, the woman LIKELY would be in prison for what she did compared to others who have breached security in government positions. I don't blame Bernie for not quitting. Be Hillary's pest.

Edited June 9, 2016 by greg775

[pettie4sox]

I would like an honest answer from you folks. My question, "Was Bernie treated fairly this primary season? Or was he robbed?"

 

My answer to you is he was robbed. CNN declared Hillary the winner before the California primary which is bulls*** considering it cost him California. Why go vote if it's been decided? Also, he's not a fricking socialist, he's a Democratic socialist. We already have socialist aspects to society. He just wants more: free college education, free health care, etc. He is not the lunatic fringe nut the media portrayed him to be. And finally, he was robbed because of the Democrat's ridiculous superdelegate system. All the people Hillary has catered to rewarded her with their support. Of all the great women out there I can't believe she gets the honor of being first female president. My gosh, if the government was more aggressive, the woman LIKELY would be in prison for what she did compared to others who have breached security in government positions. I don't blame Bernie for not quitting. Be Hillary's pest.

 

[shysocks]

If Bernie voters were so much more passionate and numerous than Clinton supporters, as I frequently read online, then they wouldn't let any CNN declaration stop them from going to the polls. I'm curious what Limbaugh thinks though.