2016 Republican Thread

[caulfield12]

Obviously University of Phoenix, Kaplan and similar for-profit online universities aren't a solution, either.

 

If the Federal government doesn't play a major role in preparing America for the future, who will?

 

Is the Republican Party going to open the doors to many immigrants in the STEM areas that most American students are so weak in...?

 

If there's a closed door immigration policy and fewer graduates, how will America compete? Taking out loans to start small businesses/services at ages 16-24 is potentially more dangerous than the growing student loan burden.

[caulfield12]

Obviously University of Phoenix, Kaplan and similar for-profit online universities aren't a solution, either.

 

If the Federal government doesn't play a major role in preparing America for the future, who will?

 

Is the Republican Party going to open the doors to many immigrants in the STEM areas that most American students are so weak in...?

 

If there's a closed door immigration policy and fewer graduates, how will America compete? Taking out loans to start small businesses/services at ages 16-24 is potentially more dangerous than the growing student loan burden.

[Chisoxfn]

Isn't that kind of her fault though? I'm not going to argue that college costs are out of control, because they are. But I personally graduated with about $20K in loans, and I needed 5 years. I spent 2 years at a community college which allowed me to live at home and work 20-30 hours a week. I then transferred to a state school (in NY, which is not a cheap state) for 3 years and worked about 10-15 hours per week, so not a ton. I wanted to go to UConn. I got in. They were my dream school. They had my degree that I wanted (actuarial science) and were only a couple hours from home. For an out of state resident it would have been between 20-25K per year. I chose not go 100K in debt. Again, I'm not defending the ridiculous prices and fees that universities have, but there are ways to mitigate the costs associated with your education and future debt.

Are you an actuary?

[bigruss]

I'm torn on a lot of the college stuff. Yes, people are stupid for going to NYU for an art degree and taking out 200k in loans, that's just not a smart choice and will come back to haunt you. Is there priviledge there? Absolutely, but it's a private school and that's fine.

 

That said, an instate student going to Illinois would still cost someone over $100k with room and board, that just isn't sustainable going forward. The s***ty thing is that we are dependent on state's providing a more affordable education and for the most part they either aren't providing enough funding to do so and/or mismanaging the crap out of funds and passing the burden down to students. There needs to be a change here, because how you screw over America going forward is having a labor force that isn't skilled enough to keep up with other countries. This is especially important for a country that relies so much on technical innovation to drive growth.

 

Not sure what the fix really is, but I could get behind the following:

-Federal universities, if states can do it why can't the fed? Have direct funding to these schools instead of state schools, eliminate some of the overhead scholarship funding costs and just build funding into tuition costs.

-Grow funding for scholarships in math/CS/tech fields, to encourage students going into this field and continue pumping top notch students into the market

 

One issue is that this a nationwide debate but the states control most of the power (with their state funded schools), we just rely on the feds for scholarships/funding/loans. I personally don't think that's a great situation.

[pettie4sox]

Isn't that kind of her fault though? I'm not going to argue that college costs are out of control, because they are. But I personally graduated with about $20K in loans, and I needed 5 years. I spent 2 years at a community college which allowed me to live at home and work 20-30 hours a week. I then transferred to a state school (in NY, which is not a cheap state) for 3 years and worked about 10-15 hours per week, so not a ton. I wanted to go to UConn. I got in. They were my dream school. They had my degree that I wanted (actuarial science) and were only a couple hours from home. For an out of state resident it would have been between 20-25K per year. I chose not go 100K in debt. Again, I'm not defending the ridiculous prices and fees that universities have, but there are ways to mitigate the costs associated with your education and future debt.

 

I've been pretty consistent throughout this thread in stating if you sign on the dotted line, then it's your responsibility. So yes, it is her fault, that being said, she wanted to go to a top school for forensic science and it happen to be a private school. Society to some extent has engrained in people that unless you go to a top school, you will be hard pressed to find employment.

 

I escaped with very little debt and I paid it off sports betting.

 

The moral of the story is, not everyone has the same resources, therefore the government should do its best to make sure there is a level playing field for those who want to go to college! I want future kids to have the opportunity for college that doesn't potentially bankrupt them when they finish.

 

How many bright kids missed out because they couldn't afford school or had the resources to prepare them to go to graduate school?

 

And these rich sniveling f***ers who got in with their parents resources and coast... These people scare me the most.

Edited February 16, 2016 by pettie4sox

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Are you an actuary?

 

I took two of the exams but went into the financial/marketing industry instead. For now at least.

 

I've been pretty consistent throughout this thread in stating if you sign on the dotted line, then it's your responsibility. So yes, it is her fault, that being said, she wanted to go to a top school for forensic science and it happen to be a private school. Society to some extent has engrained in people that unless you go to a top school, you will be hard pressed to find employment.

 

I escaped with very little debt and I paid it off sports betting.

 

The moral of the story is, not everyone has the same resources, therefore the government should do its best to make sure there is a level playing field for those who want to go to college! I want future kids to have the opportunity for college that doesn't potentially bankrupt them when they finish.

 

How many bright kids missed out because they couldn't afford school or had the resources to prepare them to go to graduate school?

 

And these rich sniveling f***ers who got in with their parents resources and coast... These people scare me the most.

 

Public colleges, certainly, but it'd be kind of hard to reel in private institutions.

 

Personally, I would support some sort of system that allowed student loans from the government to be more accessible for everyone. And these loans should have small to no interest. Like 0.9% or something. I pay 3.75%, but i know people paying upwards of 8%.

 

I do disagree with the notion that it should just be free. Everyone knows people who treated high school like a joke. Why would that change at college? Hell, I'm sure everyone knows people who paid to go to college and still treated it like a joke. Some failed out and wasted their own money. But when it's not their money, there's even less incentive.

 

Rather than pushing for free college for everyone, I really think the country needs to invest in trade schools. You don't need a traditional education to become successful and/or make a good wage. The problem is that everyone gets ingrained with the idea that you must do this, this and this in school, and then you can get to the next step where you're continued to be pushed through. School isn't meant for everyone. Everyone isn't meant for school. And that's completely fine. Trades are just as important and can be just as lucrative. I don't know what it's like now, but when I was in school only 10 years ago, there was a stigma attached to non-traditional schooling options. I'm sure the negative projection of those types of places were detrimental to some kids. They totally shouldn't be, but I'd guess that they still are.

[EvilMonkey]

I took two of the exams but went into the financial/marketing industry instead. For now at least.

 

 

 

Public colleges, certainly, but it'd be kind of hard to reel in private institutions.

 

Personally, I would support some sort of system that allowed student loans from the government to be more accessible for everyone. And these loans should have small to no interest. Like 0.9% or something. I pay 3.75%, but i know people paying upwards of 8%.

 

I do disagree with the notion that it should just be free. Everyone knows people who treated high school like a joke. Why would that change at college? Hell, I'm sure everyone knows people who paid to go to college and still treated it like a joke. Some failed out and wasted their own money. But when it's not their money, there's even less incentive.

 

Rather than pushing for free college for everyone, I really think the country needs to invest in trade schools. You don't need a traditional education to become successful and/or make a good wage. The problem is that everyone gets ingrained with the idea that you must do this, this and this in school, and then you can get to the next step where you're continued to be pushed through. School isn't meant for everyone. Everyone isn't meant for school. And that's completely fine. Trades are just as important and can be just as lucrative. I don't know what it's like now, but when I was in school only 10 years ago, there was a stigma attached to non-traditional schooling options. I'm sure the negative projection of those types of places were detrimental to some kids. They totally shouldn't be, but I'd guess that they still are.

http://profoundlydisconnected.com/

[Chi Town Sox]

I went to a small school in the south suburbs, went to school full-time at night while working and paying off school full-time during the day, I even took classes on weekends to help my schedule during the week and I have a position with a Fortune 200 company. Maybe I am being bull-headed but everyone sees the costs (even the visible ones are astronomical) associated with going to these schools and room/board. Young adults also see that nobody is getting a job worth a damn. There are plenty of options out there that are more affordable. Work, go to school, network, meet people in your class, talk to teachers, succeed

Edited February 16, 2016 by Chi Town Sox

[LDF]

I took two of the exams but went into the financial/marketing industry instead. For now at least.

 

 

 

Public colleges, certainly, but it'd be kind of hard to reel in private institutions.

 

Personally, I would support some sort of system that allowed student loans from the government to be more accessible for everyone. And these loans should have small to no interest. Like 0.9% or something. I pay 3.75%, but i know people paying upwards of 8%.

 

I do disagree with the notion that it should just be free. Everyone knows people who treated high school like a joke. Why would that change at college? Hell, I'm sure everyone knows people who paid to go to college and still treated it like a joke. Some failed out and wasted their own money. But when it's not their money, there's even less incentive.

 

Rather than pushing for free college for everyone, I really think the country needs to invest in trade schools. You don't need a traditional education to become successful and/or make a good wage. The problem is that everyone gets ingrained with the idea that you must do this, this and this in school, and then you can get to the next step where you're continued to be pushed through. School isn't meant for everyone. Everyone isn't meant for school. And that's completely fine. Trades are just as important and can be just as lucrative. I don't know what it's like now, but when I was in school only 10 years ago, there was a stigma attached to non-traditional schooling options. I'm sure the negative projection of those types of places were detrimental to some kids. They totally shouldn't be, but I'd guess that they still are.

i know, i have been bless in many ways for my college and education. my short comings in the education is the luck of the draw.

 

but my opinion and i know it is more of a fantasy is, for anyone who want to go to college should get free college of some sort. then higher education, well that will be for other people to figure that out, people who are WAY smarter than I.

 

and pls remember that free college thing i said, well there need to have some stipulation ..... what will those stipulations are, i don't know. how to fund it, dang, cut back on the foreign aid to some countries.

 

the US government should look after the US citizens.

 

[illinilaw08]

I went to a small school in the south suburbs, went to school full-time at night while working and paying off school full-time during the day, I even took classes on weekends to help my schedule during the week and I have a position with a Fortune 200 company. Maybe I am being bull-headed but everyone sees the costs (even the visible ones are astronomical) associated with going to these schools and room/board. Young adults also see that nobody is getting a job worth a damn. There are plenty of options out there that are more affordable. Work, go to school, network, meet people in your class, talk to teachers, succeed

 

18-22 year olds - even smart ones - are as a general rule, profoundly dumb. We don't require kids learn basic financial skills to graduate from high school or college. Yet there's this expectation that an 18 year old is going to look at the long term impact of massive student loans when making that decision. Some do and that's great. But most don't.

 

The amount of good jobs available without a degree are very small - even secretaries in some instances need to have a degree. Doctors are talking about $200k of debt, easily. Law students come out of 7 years of school with massive piles of debt. And those are careers that for years were considered to be safe paths to upper-middle class. And the tax benefits of the debt are minimal.

 

And unlike other bad financial decisions you make at 18-22, you can't get rid of this one in a future bankruptcy. Even if you get into the Income Based Repayment Program, the amount of outstanding principal when you get to the forgiveness part is treated as CODI (cancellation of debt income) and you end up with a massive tax bill.

 

I'm reluctant to get behind a free education policy without taking care of the back end - the trillions of dollar in student loan debt floating around - because there's a risk that the solution for the next generation leaves a giant generation of kids with large student loan debt and the added tax burden of paying for the next generation to go to school.

 

The point here is that "personal responsibility" doesn't solve this problem. Free education doesn't solve half of the problem. And student loan forgiveness generally is a non-starter politically. To me, (1) make student loans dischargeable again in bankruptcy after 5-10 years of payments (that gives people time to reach the point where they too much income or too many things to be able to go into bk); (2) let students borrow at very subsidized rates (if savings accounts are paying .00001%, then we shouldn't be paying 6% or higher on educational loans); and (3) pass legislation to slow the rate at which colleges and universities can increase tuition.

 

 

[greg775]

Has Bernie said how we are going to pay for free college education? I think it's kind of a cool idea that a college education would be free as long as you maintain a C average or C-minus. But has he said how we'll pay for it?

I kinda like the idea. A lot of kids do get bachelors degrees and to be 200,000 in debt with designs on being a teacher is horrible.

[Chisoxfn]

I took two of the exams but went into the financial/marketing industry instead. For now at least.

 

 

 

Public colleges, certainly, but it'd be kind of hard to reel in private institutions.

 

Personally, I would support some sort of system that allowed student loans from the government to be more accessible for everyone. And these loans should have small to no interest. Like 0.9% or something. I pay 3.75%, but i know people paying upwards of 8%.

 

I do disagree with the notion that it should just be free. Everyone knows people who treated high school like a joke. Why would that change at college? Hell, I'm sure everyone knows people who paid to go to college and still treated it like a joke. Some failed out and wasted their own money. But when it's not their money, there's even less incentive.

 

Rather than pushing for free college for everyone, I really think the country needs to invest in trade schools. You don't need a traditional education to become successful and/or make a good wage. The problem is that everyone gets ingrained with the idea that you must do this, this and this in school, and then you can get to the next step where you're continued to be pushed through. School isn't meant for everyone. Everyone isn't meant for school. And that's completely fine. Trades are just as important and can be just as lucrative. I don't know what it's like now, but when I was in school only 10 years ago, there was a stigma attached to non-traditional schooling options. I'm sure the negative projection of those types of places were detrimental to some kids. They totally shouldn't be, but I'd guess that they still are.

I work in the insurance space (on the finance side) and deal a lot with the various actuaries. I always tell people, had I known what an actuary actually did prior to college, it very well might have been the path I took.

[EvilMonkey]

Has Bernie said how we are going to pay for free college education? I think it's kind of a cool idea that a college education would be free as long as you maintain a C average or C-minus. But has he said how we'll pay for it?

I kinda like the idea. A lot of kids do get bachelors degrees and to be 200,000 in debt with designs on being a teacher is horrible.

taxes, Greg. Tax the rich. That's how he pays for everything. You should know that by now.

[NorthSideSox72]

18-22 year olds - even smart ones - are as a general rule, profoundly dumb. We don't require kids learn basic financial skills to graduate from high school or college. Yet there's this expectation that an 18 year old is going to look at the long term impact of massive student loans when making that decision. Some do and that's great. But most don't.

 

I've been harping on this forever. It amazes me, of all the requirements we have (federal, state, local, district, school) for what classes are required to complete high school, how is basic financial education NOT a universal part of it? It's just so basic to me.

 

[LDF]

I've been harping on this forever. It amazes me, of all the requirements we have (federal, state, local, district, school) for what classes are required to complete high school, how is basic financial education NOT a universal part of it? It's just so basic to me.

 

i will speak for the LA pov. and remember as of several yrs ago, LA ranked last in education.

 

my friend who is a school administrator keeps harping about bringing up the standard of education. the consensus is, they have to keep it as basic as they can, so they will not loose anymore students .... keep the standards low so the student can finish with what the government can call a hs education.

 

those students and whose parents wants to foot the bill, pay for these charter school like education.

[The Beast]

I've been harping on this forever. It amazes me, of all the requirements we have (federal, state, local, district, school) for what classes are required to complete high school, how is basic financial education NOT a universal part of it? It's just so basic to me.

It's amazing how useless some of the education in high school is - I think kids should be given the option to take extra math or extra foreign language in order to get into the BA or BS mindset for school. This way students can take what they are interested in taking and have a headstart towards meeting BA or BS requirements. Not everyone wants to take Spanish when their deficiency is in Math. Basic financial literacy is a must as is business education.

[pettie4sox]

Damn, I sorta feel this thread got derailed but the admins aren't saying anything yet.

 

I don't think college should be free but it should be very affordable! If you're paying off debt for 30 years after you graduate, that's just a huge problem. I agree with the increase in trade schools as well for those who do not want to want the traditional college route.

 

I'm all for paying taxes to invest in this country's future and infrastructure.

 

Now this on the other hand... http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/16/politics/f-3...rational-costs/

 

We always have money for the biggest baddest bomb, plane, and war on the planet... but we can never fix our s***ty infrastructure and reform our schools.

 

Enough is bloody enough.

[pettie4sox]

I've been harping on this forever. It amazes me, of all the requirements we have (federal, state, local, district, school) for what classes are required to complete high school, how is basic financial education NOT a universal part of it? It's just so basic to me.

 

I think every high school should have mandatory financial regiment you have to pass to graduate. It includes a course on credit cards, the credit system, student loans for college, and the kitchen sink to boot.

 

How many 18 year old get credit cards with extraordinary limits just to f*** it up.

 

Yeah, it's quite shameful it's learn as you go with this s*** right now. Yeah, yeah, it's your parent's responsibility to teach your kids... well some parents are quite unaware themselves.

[LDF]

Damn, I sorta feel this thread got derailed but the admins aren't saying anything yet.

 

I don't think college should be free but it should be very affordable! If you're paying off debt for 30 years after you graduate, that's just a huge problem. I agree with the increase in trade schools as well for those who do not want to want the traditional college route.

 

I'm all for paying taxes to invest in this country's future and infrastructure.

 

Now this on the other hand... http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/16/politics/f-3...rational-costs/

 

We always have money for the biggest baddest bomb, plane, and war on the planet... but we can never fix our s***ty infrastructure and reform our schools.

 

Enough is bloody enough.

 

i hate having to keep posting about the st i live in, but for all it screwed up points, they do some good sometimes. like they have a big chunk taken off or are helped for college for the residents of the st to send their kids to college. has something to do with what Heuy P Long setup a long time ago. the oil companies will pay fees to the st for their children to attend colleges, they, the colleges will somehow setup and help the kids.

 

i really don't know the whole facts on this story. maybe it is one of those urban legends. but i heard that it is a resident restriction of living in the st for x - amount of yrs before your kids goes to school.

[farmteam]

18-22 year olds - even smart ones - are as a general rule, profoundly dumb. We don't require kids learn basic financial skills to graduate from high school or college. Yet there's this expectation that an 18 year old is going to look at the long term impact of massive student loans when making that decision. Some do and that's great. But most don't.

Not ashamed to admit this describes me. Took out more loans than I should have. Just didn't realize the impact it would have on my day-to-day life.

 

Yeah, it's quite shameful it's learn as you go with this s*** right now. Yeah, yeah, it's your parent's responsibility to teach your kids... well some parents are quite unaware themselves.

I kind of fell in this as well. My parents are amazing and I love them. But "long term financial planning" is not their forte. I did not realize that when I was 18-22, and just kind of blindly followed their advice. I don't mean to shirk the responsibility; I knew I was taking on lots of debt, and still did it. I just wish I would have had a greater appreciation for the impact that debt would have.

[greg775]

taxes, Greg. Tax the rich. That's how he pays for everything. You should know that by now.

Has he said that though? I mean we're talking a LOT of money to pay for millions of college kids' tuitions per year. I'd assume books, too.

Meghan McCain's America Now show tonight today said 70 percent of Millenials perfer socialism over Capitalism. What is going on? What are we teaching kids in history classes these days?

Are Millenials really going to get rid of capitalism in 40 years or so when every one of the boomers are dead and long forgotten?

 

I truly don't understand this. Millenials want everybody to make the same wage?? No rich; no poor; no middle class, just we all have the same paycheck? I tell you what. Most Boomers at least were raised by sane parents. The parents of the last 30 years or so have really done a piss poor job IMO teaching their kids what is up.

Edited February 17, 2016 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Greg, that's pretty simple.

 

Because in the 50's - 90's, there was at least a perception of a large amount fairness and equality in the system.

CEO pay wasn't so extremely high, and almost everyone was paid a regular salary, not in stock options taxable at the capital gains rate, or less than Warren Buffet's secretary.

 

Young people on the Democratic side at least want a system that works better for ALL. How to define that? When a majority of kids in their teens and twenties expect to have a better life than those led by their parents. Ever since 2008 amd maybe going back to 1998-2002, that American core belief has been disappearing.

 

Obviously, utopianism/socialism won't work any more than a government based on Ayn Rand principles, but voters on both sides are fed up with crony capitalism. It's a natural progression. These ideas were already established by Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party over the last decade.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/17/politics/ber...lism/index.html

Greg, read this article and it will make more sense. However, the US is way too diverse to copy the model of Denmark.

 

Edited February 17, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested making financial aid for college (from the government) contingent on some form of either military or voluntary service (AmeriCorps or the Peace Corps, could be adjusted to include non-denominational religious charities or selected non-profits as well).

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Damn, I sorta feel this thread got derailed but the admins aren't saying anything yet.

 

I don't think college should be free but it should be very affordable! If you're paying off debt for 30 years after you graduate, that's just a huge problem. I agree with the increase in trade schools as well for those who do not want to want the traditional college route.

 

I'm all for paying taxes to invest in this country's future and infrastructure.

 

Now this on the other hand... http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/16/politics/f-3...rational-costs/

 

We always have money for the biggest baddest bomb, plane, and war on the planet... but we can never fix our s***ty infrastructure and reform our schools.

 

Enough is bloody enough.

 

I agree that some form of financial planning/responsibility class as well as other real life prep classes should be offered (if not mandatory) in high school. I do disagree with cutting things like language. As someone who's lived and traveled through Europe, it's kind of embarrassing that Americans are so culturally ignorant and inept compared to most Europeans, who often speak 2, 3 or even more languages.

 

As for the JSF program and any other military program, well I don't think people realize how many people these programs keep employed. My company will supply around $20M of product in support of this program this year. But we're not supplying it to Lockheed Martin. We're supplying it to an integrator, who will then go to another subcontractor who then supplies to Lockheed Martin. At the other end, we will need to buy a sizable amount of product to help us from our own contractors this year. The military budget funds so many jobs. I don't think people comprehend that. I know I didn't before I worked in the military aerospace industry. When even one large government contract gets cancelled or program gets de-funded, the result is thousands of lost jobs. And usually good paying jobs at that.

 

I'm surprised nobody has suggested making financial aid for college (from the government) contingent on some form of either military or voluntary service (AmeriCorps or the Peace Corps, could be adjusted to include non-denominational religious charities or selected non-profits as well).

 

Do you mean more than it is currently? College is already offered to veterans for free. I'd support something similar for Americorps type organizations, but I don't know what making these mandatory for any sort of financial at all would accomplish.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Am I the only one that had this course? We had what amounted to a home economics class without the cooking. We had to open a checking account, carry it around, "buy" things, balance the checkbook, etc. I'm pretty certain we had a credit card too but I can't remember anymore.

 

I think the biggest thing beyond all the debt, is the way it's all presented. I went to a private undergrad school and then law school, so of course i'm a moron that deserves the large monthly student loan payment, but I was legitimately shocked by how much I would owe versus what I was reasonably expected to make. I think schools often tout a glowing career right off the bat, so even if you did the numbers you didn't think the monthly payments were that bad. Then you hit the real world and realized getting a job was tough and the jobs that were open were highly competitive and employers were paying less than they used to. Could be a function of the awful economy I experienced as I was looking for my first job.

 

Still, at the end of the day, i'd be happier if we made a college degree LESS important. I think we can all agree that for the most part college was a joke for learning. It was more about life experiences. Half (or more) of what we were taught we don't remember and/or it's not useful anymore for what we do. Obviously this depends on your job. If you had a specific career choice in mind (chemist, accountant, etc) you obviously had a much more tailored schedule. But the vast majority of people take all sorts of classes that end up being pretty worthless by the end. That's a lot of wasted money if you think about a per hour/credit cost. Wouldn't an associates of something specific be just as useful? Yet a bachelor's is seen by employers as something way more impressive than an associates degree.