Buehrle>Wood Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 02:43 PM) How the f*** do you take that out of context? By not actually providing it with context. He was asked about if there was a hypothetical law in place, one that he may not have even put in place, would people be punished for breaking it. The tweet was made to sound like he's just going to start rounding up women and throwing them in jail without any process to it. But that's what 140 character news does. The article posted on the previous page does a better job. Edited March 30, 2016 by Buehrle>Wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 02:51 PM) Because he thinks Trump can do no wrong. That's who Trump supporters are. No I actually very much disagree with him here on abortion but good try. I'm pro choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Believing that people should be punished for illegal activities is a bad political position these days? Yeesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Here's another one, btw: CNN Breaking News @cnnbrk 23m23 minutes ago .@realDonaldTrump: Women who have abortions should face "some form of punishment." http://cnn.it/1M0Zzkh The headline is also bad ("Trump: Women who have abortions should be punished"). It's not until the end of the first paragraph that you read "if it's outlawed." Edited March 30, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 09:02 PM) By not actually providing it with context. He was asked about if there was a hypothetical law in place, one that he may not have even put in place, would people be punished for breaking it. The tweet was made to sound like he's just going to start rounding up women and throwing them in jail without any process to it. But that's what 140 character news does. The article posted on the previous page does a better job. Trump opposes the Roe vs Wade decision and wants abortion to be illegal (minus rape/incest/life of mother). Matthews asked him if it being illegal would carry punishments for the woman. He said yes. The tweet wasn't even remotely out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) Trump opposes the Roe vs Wade decision and wants abortion to be illegal (minus rape/incest/life of mother). Matthews asked him if it being illegal would carry punishments for the woman. He said yes. The tweet wasn't even remotely out of context. You just provided the context the tweet didn't provide, ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 09:17 PM) Here's another one, btw: The headline is also bad ("Trump: Women who have abortions should be punished"). It's not until the end of the first paragraph that you read "if it's outlawed." ...which is the position he advocates. HEY YOU PUT MY OPINION IN THE CONTEXT OF MY OPINIONS - WAY OUT OF LINE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 09:19 PM) You just provided the context the tweet didn't provide, ha. When you declare a statement to be "out of context", you're indicating that the statement is misleading, because it's meaning would change if readers were given more information. That's not the case here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gooch Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I'm confused by all this outrage on the abortion answer. Trump, just like most other republicans, wants abortion to be illegal. If it is illegal, doesn't that imply there would be a punishment for not following the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 In this version of the US where abortion is illegal, you'd be better off punishing the practitioners of abortions rather than the women desperate enough to seek them. I hate Trump. I'm pro-choice. But I have to ask, is there one person whose mind this quote changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 QUOTE (shysocks @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 03:47 PM) In this version of the US where abortion is illegal, you'd be better off punishing the practitioners of abortions rather than the women desperate enough to seek them. I hate Trump. I'm pro-choice. But I have to ask, is there one person whose mind this quote changes? It could give him more votes from people who support other GOP candidates but won't say things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 03:20 PM) ...which is the position he advocates. HEY YOU PUT MY OPINION IN THE CONTEXT OF MY OPINIONS - WAY OUT OF LINE He may, but not based on the quote/answer he was giving at that particular time, which is lazy journalism. I'm pro-life. I think women who get abortions (by choice) beyond the first 6-8 weeks are awful people. I too would like to see them jailed if it were outlawed. But because abortions up to 22-23 weeks are allowed, i'm not advocating we jail people for it (up to that point, anyway). Do we know for a fact Trump doesn't have the same position? If so, those tweets are out of context. Edited March 30, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 09:55 PM) He may, but not based on the quote/answer he was giving at that particular time, which is lazy journalism. I'm pro-life. I think women who get abortions (by choice) beyond the first 6-8 weeks are awful people. I too would like to see them jailed if it were outlawed. But because abortions up to 22-23 weeks are allowed, i'm not advocating we jail people for it (up to that point, anyway). Do we know for a fact Trump doesn't have the same position? If so, those tweets are out of context. He explicitly said "you have to ban it." That after previously having expressed his opposition to Roe vs Wade and saying he only wants exceptions made for rape/incest/medical reasons. The "position" you outlined is just silly. You don't want women jailed under non-existent laws? Uh, no kidding. All you're saying is that you support the rule of law. The important thing is *what you want the law to be* regarding abortion. And both you and Trump want it to include women being punished for having abortions. And most people (including a lot in the pro-life community) think that's awful. Hence the backlash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 04:09 PM) He explicitly said "you have to ban it." That after previously having expressed his opposition to Roe vs Wade and saying he only wants exceptions made for rape/incest/medical reasons. The "position" you outlined is just silly. You don't want women jailed under non-existent laws? Uh, no kidding. All you're saying is that you support the rule of law. The important thing is *what you want the law to be* regarding abortion. And both you and Trump want it to include women being punished for having abortions. And most people (including a lot in the pro-life community) think that's awful. Hence the backlash. Those are still two different positions that you're not articulating in 140 character tweets. They make it seem like, right now, before anything is outlawed, Trump wants to round up women who get abortions and put them in jail. The implication being he does not support the rule of law. How do you not see that as being out of context with what he said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Trumps position on abortion is garbage but it's the standard conservative position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 09:18 PM) Those are still two different positions that you're not articulating in 140 character tweets. They make it seem like, right now, before anything is outlawed, Trump wants to round up women who get abortions and put them in jail. The implication being he does not support the rule of law. How do you not see that as being out of context with what he said? Here's the tweet: re: abortion TRUMP: The answer is there has to be some form of punishment. CHRIS MATTHEWS: For the woman? TRUMP: Yes All it indicates is that Trump favors punishments for women who get abortions. There's absolutely nothing in there about an illegal vigilante-like roundup of women. He's a presidential candidate who is giving his opinions on how he wants the law to work. Imagine the town hall conversation was this: Matthews: "If Congress passed a repeal bill for Obamacare, would you sign it?" Trump: "Yes, I want to end Obamacare." Tapper tweets: "Trump says he wants to end Obamacare" Would that be out of context? Is Donald Trump SO INSANE that Tapper really needs to specify that Trump's position on ending Obamacare is related to the actual legal process of repealing a law and not, say, Trump wanting to become a dictator who disbands Congress and repeals Obamacare by personal fiat? Is he SO INSANE that anyone sincerely saw Tapper's abortion tweet and thought Trump was advocating that women be rounded up and thrown in jail under non-existent laws? (And by who, anyway? secret police?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 10:37 PM) Trumps position on abortion is garbage but it's the standard conservative position. The standard conservative position is that doctors should be punished; not women. That being said, Trump just released a statement taking exactly that position. That was a very quick flip-flop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 A 15 year old girl was pepper sprayed in the face yesterday outside a trump rally after shoving away a man who groped her. http://local.nixle.com/alert/5615856/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Trumps position on abortion is garbage but it's the standard conservative position. No, no it isn't. It may become that now that he's said it, but it's never been the position of anybody except the very extreme fringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 In this version of the US where abortion is illegal, you'd be better off punishing the practitioners of abortions rather than the women desperate enough to seek them. I hate Trump. I'm pro-choice. But I have to ask, is there one person whose mind this quote changes? This could be the last straw for independent voters who are desperate for a reason to vote against Hillary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Trump bemoans the Geneva conventions http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-pri...ventions-221394 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Mar 30, 2016 -> 04:49 PM) Here's the tweet: re: abortion TRUMP: The answer is there has to be some form of punishment. CHRIS MATTHEWS: For the woman? TRUMP: Yes All it indicates is that Trump favors punishments for women who get abortions. There's absolutely nothing in there about an illegal vigilante-like roundup of women. He's a presidential candidate who is giving his opinions on how he wants the law to work. Imagine the town hall conversation was this: Matthews: "If Congress passed a repeal bill for Obamacare, would you sign it?" Trump: "Yes, I want to end Obamacare." Tapper tweets: "Trump says he wants to end Obamacare" Would that be out of context? Is Donald Trump SO INSANE that Tapper really needs to specify that Trump's position on ending Obamacare is related to the actual legal process of repealing a law and not, say, Trump wanting to become a dictator who disbands Congress and repeals Obamacare by personal fiat? Is he SO INSANE that anyone sincerely saw Tapper's abortion tweet and thought Trump was advocating that women be rounded up and thrown in jail under non-existent laws? (And by who, anyway? secret police?) Yes, of course people think that Trump wants to punish women who get abortions, regardless of the law. Hence why he had to back track with a statement yesterday. The whole discussion was premised on the fact that abortion gets outlawed and that women would therefore be doing something illegal. I'm not sure how ignoring that isn't a huge, huge problem. Nor do I understand why it's a "garbage" position. If an act is illegal and you commit the act, why shouldn't you be held accountable? Drugs are illegal. We arrest people who use and possess drugs. We don't ignore the low level user and focus only on drug dealers. Driving while drunk is illegal. We don't ignore the driver and charge the person supplying the alcohol. If you take part in an illegal activity, guess what, you should be charged. You're a criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Mar 31, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) Yes, of course people think that Trump wants to punish women who get abortions, regardless of the law. Hence why he had to back track with a statement yesterday. The whole discussion was premised on the fact that abortion gets outlawed and that women would therefore be doing something illegal. I'm not sure how ignoring that isn't a huge, huge problem. Nor do I understand why it's a "garbage" position. If an act is illegal and you commit the act, why shouldn't you be held accountable? Drugs are illegal. We arrest people who use and possess drugs. We don't ignore the low level user and focus only on drug dealers. Driving while drunk is illegal. We don't ignore the driver and charge the person supplying the alcohol. If you take part in an illegal activity, guess what, you should be charged. You're a criminal. Right, Trump's just following that position through to it's logical conclusion. But a lot of pro-life groups try to carve out a position where abortion is illegal, but only doctors who perform abortions would be punished, not the women. It doesn't really make a lot of sense as you point out, but they realize that advocating punishing women is probably unworkable politically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Ok have your abortions be illegal. I guess that means taxes will go when we have to take care of all the unwanted kids until they are 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Mar 31, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) Yes, of course people think that Trump wants to punish women who get abortions, regardless of the law. Hence why he had to back track with a statement yesterday. The whole discussion was premised on the fact that abortion gets outlawed and that women would therefore be doing something illegal. I'm not sure how ignoring that isn't a huge, huge problem. Nor do I understand why it's a "garbage" position. If an act is illegal and you commit the act, why shouldn't you be held accountable? Drugs are illegal. We arrest people who use and possess drugs. We don't ignore the low level user and focus only on drug dealers. Driving while drunk is illegal. We don't ignore the driver and charge the person supplying the alcohol. If you take part in an illegal activity, guess what, you should be charged. You're a criminal. The key point you are missing is that he wants abortions to be illegal, which very directly means that he wants to punish women for having abortions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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