CrimsonWeltall Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 06:22 PM) Or committing political suicide. How so? Ted Cruz' base is the supremely devout - to religion and to conservatism. Knocking Donald Trump, who is basically a fraud in both those areas, doesn't hurt him with that base. Despite Trump's recent bumps in polling (which are really more Hillary drops), he's still unlikely to win, which means Cruz in 2020 can work the "Trump was a POS and we lost because of it. You should have picked me" narrative. The guys who fell in line behind this insanity won't be able to make that argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Can we not be talking about 2020 yet? I still have yet to swallow this f***ing turd of an election in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:37 PM) How so? Ted Cruz' base is the supremely devout - to religion and to conservatism. Knocking Donald Trump, who is basically a fraud in both those areas, doesn't hurt him with that base. Despite Trump's recent bumps in polling (which are really more Hillary drops), he's still unlikely to win, which means Cruz in 2020 can work the "Trump was a POS and we lost because of it. You should have picked me" narrative. The guys who fell in line behind this insanity won't be able to make that argument. His base has abandoned him. I've talked to lots of Cruz delegates and his biggest donors last night. They are no longer on board. He got taken out of his own suite last night because his donors didn't want him there. Trump has to lose by double digits now to save Cruz. Anything less, the Republican party blames Cruz for not getting getting behind the candidate. And if Trump wins, well, then he's really screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 06:51 PM) His base has abandoned him. I've talked to lots of Cruz delegates and his biggest donors last night. They are no longer on board. Damn. It really is partisanship above all else these days, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 05:51 PM) He got taken out of his own suite last night because his donors didn't want him there. Do you have a source on this one? All I can find is him being blocked from entering Sheldon Adelson's suite. Adelson didn't back Cruz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 01:01 PM) Do you have a source on this one? All I can find is him being blocked from entering Sheldon Adelson's suite. Adelson didn't back Cruz. That is just from talking to his people. It could have been that they were referencing in the confusion though. It was pretty chaotic last night, and all week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 People are so fearful of losing favor with their party's leader and potential POTUS that nobody in the party really wants to oppose him at this point. It's really a structural problem that would happen to the Dems too if they had a candidate they hated. Your political career rests too much on the ensuring the party leadership likes you...unless you want to just become rich and famous and jump in later in life ala Trump. But then you become the kingmaker, the problem continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 Democrats fall into line. Republicans fall on to principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 05:19 AM) Democrats fall into line. Republicans fall on to principle. Are you referring to Cruz and Kasich? Can't be the establishment Trump supporters. Just curious: which specific principles do you think Democrats have discarded this election cycle, and which ones do you think Republicans are adhering to (obviously not small government, free trade, interventionism, or family values)? Edit: I do think most of the Republicans/conservatives on this board are principled - which is why they've been so disappointed with the primary and its outcome. Edited July 22, 2016 by CrimsonWeltall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Putting aside all else with Trump's speech tonight, it is bothersome that it was based on several false premises: 1. The country is suffering from greater rates of crime (false in all but the most absurd readings of crime statistics). 2. We're dealing with an influx of illegal immigrants, mostly from Mexico (net migration from Mexico to the US is negative, more people are going from US to Mexico than vice versa). 3. Immigrants are dangerous (less likely to commit crime than citizens). 4. Illegal immigrants are primarily coming to us across an unsecured border (most overstay legal visas). I do wonder, for all that rank and file Republicans may agree about with Trump, are they nearly as interested in these immigration and crime issues that this speech focused on so much? Sure, they may generally favor the idea of the need to crack down on crime and on immigration, but I've never had the sense that these are the top issues for average conservatives. And, if I'm right about that, it's because the world most of us live in is not characterized by unprecedented crime and immigration. My read is that conservatives are generally either concerned with big changes to our social world—like gay marriage—or the way our economy is run, the role the government should serve in reducing poverty, etc. because those are more clearly problems and ones that affect people's day to day lives. I just wonder whether conservatives in general are in agreement on what the major issues are and, after that, whether Republicans and Democrats are at all close in diagnosing the problems that they should be seeking to fix (with the assumption that the proposed solutions will generally be different). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 A speech that will go down in history. The energy in that building was insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Ivanka's was ten times more positive. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/politics/iva...eech/index.html Trump's was thirty minutes too long....filled with zero specifics or details or ways to implement...and sounded more similar to George Wallace in 1968 than Ronald Reagan in 1980. He's flip flopped on so many positions its impossible to know where he stands on anything. In the end, cutting taxes/supply side economics has been a consistent failure to do anything over the last thirty years except blow up the deficit even further. Nobody noticed the obvious contradictions between positions last night and everything MikePence stands for? Welcome to Germany 1933... Edited July 22, 2016 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 06:06 AM) A speech that will go down in history. The energy in that building was insane. Been very busy this week and haven't been able to watch. Are u serious? Was it a good speech by Trump? Highlights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 02:06 AM) A speech that will go down in history. The energy in that building was insane. It will likely go down in history as the eulogy of the GOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 03:54 AM) It will likely go down in history as the eulogy of the GOP Isn't that what BW wants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 He has said that a few times. I don't think he's a Republican, just pro-Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) He has said that a few times. I don't think he's a Republican, just pro-Trump. Yeah, I'm just saying, the speech won't go down for being energetic or anything. But for basically being a eulogy at best, a "this is how liberty dies" Star Wars reference at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 02:54 AM) It will likely go down in history as the eulogy of the GOP Yeah, not enough disgruntled old white dudes to put Trump in the WH anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 01:06 AM) A speech that will go down in history. The energy in that building was insane. You know who else gave highly energetic speeches that went down in history.... Seriously though it wasn't some sort of historic speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 12:33 PM) Yeah, not enough disgruntled old white dudes to put Trump in the WH anymore. No, there are more than enough disgruntled old white dudes around to vote Trump in. But even some of us realize how awful Trump is and won't cross that line. Gary Johnson or bust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 08:05 PM) No, there are more than enough disgruntled old white dudes around to vote Trump in. But even some of us realize how awful Trump is and won't cross that line. Gary Johnson or bust! I'm on board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Gary Johnson is acting like he's not running. Not doing much social media at all. Is he on tons campaign trail? I don't see him. He's just sitting back. Needs to get out there more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 regular reminder that the LP platform is somehow crazier than Trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 These leaked emails from the Democratic party are mindlessly entertaining. You got them sending interns disguised as protestors to Trump events, media outlets with writers filing stories to the DNC ahead of their own editors, placing fake job ads for The Trump Organization looking for hot women, and on and on and on. But what happened to Bernie Sanders is disgusting. He never had a chance vs a rigged system, and these emails prove the collusion the DNC had with the Clinton campaign. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is an evil human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 08:53 AM) These leaked emails from the Democratic party are mindlessly entertaining. You got them sending interns disguised as protestors to Trump events, media outlets with writers filing stories to the DNC ahead of their own editors, placing fake job ads for The Trump Organization looking for hot women, and on and on and on. But what happened to Bernie Sanders is disgusting. He never had a chance vs a rigged system, and these emails prove the collusion the DNC had with the Clinton campaign. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is an evil human. link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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