whitesox247 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 The chances of us getting Matsui are slim to none. That guy is on just about every major league team's shopiing list and Chicago doesnt seem like an appealing place for Asian players (Seattle, LA, Anaheim would be better choices). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 The chances of us getting Matsui are slim to none. That guy is on just about every major league team's shopiing list and Chicago doesnt seem like an appealing place for Asian players (Seattle, LA, Anaheim would be better choices). Count out LA and from all intents and purposes I've heard the Angels may not spend the money they once said they were and they'll likely invest it on pitching. Although Matsui and Tejada are definately possibilities for them. Still, I don't see that many teams in the market. Most teams willing to spend the money have a shortstop. Both Chicago teams need one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Count out LA and from all intents and purposes I've heard the Angels may not spend the money they once said they were and they'll likely invest it on pitching. Although Matsui and Tejada are definately possibilities for them. Still, I don't see that many teams in the market. Most teams willing to spend the money have a shortstop. Both Chicago teams need one though. Seattle doesn't have much spare money either. Remember they didn't have enough money to add even one player for the stretch run this year. I don't see how they are going to come up with enough money to bid on this guy, let alone sign him to a long term deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Count out LA and from all intents and purposes I've heard the Angels may not spend the money they once said they were and they'll likely invest it on pitching. Although Matsui and Tejada are definately possibilities for them. Still, I don't see that many teams in the market. Most teams willing to spend the money have a shortstop. Both Chicago teams need one though. Seattle doesn't have much spare money either. Remember they didn't have enough money to add even one player for the stretch run this year. I don't see how they are going to come up with enough money to bid on this guy, let alone sign him to a long term deal. I'd say the competitors for the shortstops are: -San Diego (Although they are saying more and more that they won't add a shortstop) -Chicago (Both teams need a shortstop; Cubs may not invest that kind of money when they are still paying Alex Gonzalez big bucks one more year -Anaheim (Could use a shortstop; But Eckstein is there and pitching is a much bigger need and you could say outfield as well, especially since they have Eck) Dodgers could make an attempt at one, but more likely they'd go for Vidro to play 2nd base (Itzuris is a hell of a defensive shortstop). No one else in the NL would be interested and in the AL the A's won't spend the money, Texas has a shortstop, Yanks/BoSox have em and no one in the central would spend the money. That kind of leaves most teams out. Baltimore could make a push. Hell, thinking about it, not many teams seem like they are gonna spend money so once again their should be some really good players out there for a lot less then you'd think. I'd say the odds aren't too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 And don't forget, if the money isn't there, Matsui doesn't have to come to the US. I am sure there are teams willing to pay him a lot to stay in Japan. And BTW the Orioles are a good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 If hes coming to Chicago, its on the North Side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 18, 2003 Author Share Posted September 18, 2003 OK, f*** all those previous thoughts...after watching this team in a clutch series, I've changed my thought stream concerning this team all together. Here are the people I wanna see on this team in 2004: Joe Crede, 3B- The kid is gonna be good, still learning Miguel Olivo, C- See above Carlos Lee, LF- Carlos is coming into his own, and should be the LFer for us Aaron Rowand, CF- He is young, and deserves a shot to play all year Mark Buehrle, P- Still young, and still a stud in my eyes Jon Garland, P- At 23 years old, I love having this guy as a #3/#4 Magglio Ordonez, RF- Maybe the only big money player we should keep You know what, I'm struggling to think of anyone else I wanna see on this team next year. Put any youngsters from the minors where ever else is left. I don't care to see Jose f***ing Valentin or Frank f***ing Thomas on the roster next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmookie Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 THIS WAS THE YEAR TO DO IT WE JUST DIDNT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I think we are looking to hard at the guys we have here now. Why not wait a little bit and look at guys who are available, via free agency or trade. Some of the guys are going to make way too much money to be back next season. I remember hearing the Marlins might be looking to move Juan Encarnacion; .273 avg, 17 hr, 88 rbi. They have Pierre in center, Conine in right, and Cabrera in left (as long as Lowell is at third). Encarnacion is making $3.45 this year, thats too much for a bench player. I think he would be able to play centerfield and has some numbers which are not bad. He could play any of the three out field positions for us. Only negative I see about him is he is a right handed bat, it could be worse though. A couple players I was wondering contracts and years left were: Brad Wilkerson (.268, 18, 75), David Ortiz (.284, 27, 94), and Trot Nixon (.309, 29, 85). Here's one for you guys, Mike Maroth (7-20, 5.55). Look at Redman in Florida. Redman was 8-15 last year, now he's pitching very well on a good team. Why not him as our number 4 starter? I would like to see both Robbie and Carl resigned. Jose I would like to see gone, I love him, but it's best for the team. Colon is gone, we should try to resign him, but let's not overpay. I am not sure about Sullivan yet. I am not very firmilar with him. I could live with Frank or Konerko gone, clears some money. I could live with Magglio being traded, that $14 million could come very handy. I don't think he's quite worth that $14 million. Right now our lineup really looks half empty: C - Miguel Olivo 1B - Paul Konerko 2B - ??? 3B - Joe Crede SS- ??? LF - Carlos Lee CF - ??? RF - Magglio Ordonez DH - Frank Thomas C - ??? MIF - Tony Graffanino (he'll be back, although may look for somewhere to start) 2B - Aaron Miles 2B/OF - Willie Harris OF - Aaron Rowand OF - Armando Rios (showed he won't go away) SP - Mark Buerhle SP - Esteban Loaiza SP - Jon Garland SP - Dan Wright (let's face it we're kinda stuck with the guy for now, like it or not) SP - Scott Schoeneweiss RP - Flash Gordon (he'll be back) RP - Damaso Marte (he BETTER be back) RP - Billy Koch RP - Kelly Wunsch (can pitch well if used right) RP - ??? RP - ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 OK, f*** all those previous thoughts...after watching this team in a clutch series, I've changed my thought stream concerning this team all together. Here are the people I wanna see on this team in 2004: Joe Crede, 3B- The kid is gonna be good, still learning Miguel Olivo, C- See above Carlos Lee, LF- Carlos is coming into his own, and should be the LFer for us Aaron Rowand, CF- He is young, and deserves a shot to play all year Mark Buehrle, P- Still young, and still a stud in my eyes Jon Garland, P- At 23 years old, I love having this guy as a #3/#4 Magglio Ordonez, RF- Maybe the only big money player we should keep You know what, I'm struggling to think of anyone else I wanna see on this team next year. Put any youngsters from the minors where ever else is left. I don't care to see Jose f***ing Valentin or Frank f***ing Thomas on the roster next year. one problem there capn.. we dont have any youngsters who are ready to go in the minors .. kw gave em all up this year gettin those big guns that were gonna put us over the top........ unless we get some cheap vets were pretty much screwed next year as far as super talant... like cleveland is now get a good look at them .. thats gonna be us soon...a bunch of no names and no talant............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 OK, f*** all those previous thoughts...after watching this team in a clutch series, I've changed my thought stream concerning this team all together. Here are the people I wanna see on this team in 2004: Joe Crede, 3B- The kid is gonna be good, still learning Miguel Olivo, C- See above Carlos Lee, LF- Carlos is coming into his own, and should be the LFer for us Aaron Rowand, CF- He is young, and deserves a shot to play all year Mark Buehrle, P- Still young, and still a stud in my eyes Jon Garland, P- At 23 years old, I love having this guy as a #3/#4 Magglio Ordonez, RF- Maybe the only big money player we should keep You know what, I'm struggling to think of anyone else I wanna see on this team next year. Put any youngsters from the minors where ever else is left. I don't care to see Jose f***ing Valentin or Frank f***ing Thomas on the roster next year. one problem there capn.. we dont have any youngsters who are ready to go in the minors .. kw gave em all up this year gettin those big guns that were gonna put us over the top........ unless we get some cheap vets were pretty much screwed next year as far as super talant... like cleveland is now get a good look at them .. thats gonna be us soon...a bunch of no names and no talant............... Yeah, but right now I think there more fun to watch than our team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 OK, f*** all those previous thoughts...after watching this team in a clutch series, I've changed my thought stream concerning this team all together. Here are the people I wanna see on this team in 2004: Joe Crede, 3B- The kid is gonna be good, still learning Miguel Olivo, C- See above Carlos Lee, LF- Carlos is coming into his own, and should be the LFer for us Aaron Rowand, CF- He is young, and deserves a shot to play all year Mark Buehrle, P- Still young, and still a stud in my eyes Jon Garland, P- At 23 years old, I love having this guy as a #3/#4 Magglio Ordonez, RF- Maybe the only big money player we should keep You know what, I'm struggling to think of anyone else I wanna see on this team next year. Put any youngsters from the minors where ever else is left. I don't care to see Jose f***ing Valentin or Frank f***ing Thomas on the roster next year. one problem there capn.. we dont have any youngsters who are ready to go in the minors .. kw gave em all up this year gettin those big guns that were gonna put us over the top........ unless we get some cheap vets were pretty much screwed next year as far as super talant... like cleveland is now get a good look at them .. thats gonna be us soon...a bunch of no names and no talant............... Yeah, but right now I think there more fun to watch than our team. you have a point there...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 18, 2003 Author Share Posted September 18, 2003 I dunno if I agree with that totally, HSC. Cleveland has alot of no name players right now, but quite a few of them are mighty talented. Escobar is a 4 tool outfielder, possibly 5 tool. Broussard has looked pretty solid, they have talent. Just have to have the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I dunno if I agree with that totally, HSC. Cleveland has alot of no name players right now, but quite a few of them are mighty talented. Escobar is a 4 tool outfielder, possibly 5 tool. Broussard has looked pretty solid, they have talent. Just have to have the experience. talent.. but look where they are... and were they once were... we are gonna be one of those stories soon enough.. ....im sick of this rebuild s*** year after year.... and we have not much left down below to rebuild from... experience wise or talent...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I dunno if I agree with that totally, HSC. Cleveland has alot of no name players right now, but quite a few of them are mighty talented. Escobar is a 4 tool outfielder, possibly 5 tool. Broussard has looked pretty solid, they have talent. Just have to have the experience. Jody Gerut, why the hell do I know that name? I don't know but I have come to like the guy. Seems to always play well. How about Coco Crisp, that name right there is great. He's another young quality player. They are still a year away though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 a year at least...if not more....thats gonna be us ... i dont want to wait another year again....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 a year at least...if not more....thats gonna be us ... i dont want to wait another year again....... I could see them in 2005. Crisp, Escobar, Philips, Escobar, Gerut, Bard, Hafner, and all the other field players should be ready. That'd be two full seasons in the league. What about their pitching staff beyond C.C. and Lee? I know they got some kids, but I am not sure who. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 1. Carl Everett 9,150,000 Unrestricted FA 2. Magglio Ordonez 9,000,000 One more year, 14 mill 3. Bartolo Colon 8,250,000 Unrestricted FA 4. Roberto Alomar 7,689,684 Wants 2 year deal, at signifigantly less porbably 5. Paul Konerko 6,250,000 8 mill in 2004, 8.75 in 2005, 50K raise if traded 6. Jose Valentin 5,000,000 Unrestricted FA 7. Frank Thomas 5,000,000 Mutual options, gonna either cost us 6 or 8 mil 8. Billy Koch 4,250,000 6.375 mill in 2004, 6.5 mill if he pitches in 65 g. 9. Carlos Lee 4,200,000 Arbitration eligible 10. Scott Sullivan 2,800,000 3.1 mill option, or 250K buyout 11. Tom Gordon 1,400,000 Unrestricted FA 12. Sandy Alomar Jr. 700,000 Unrestricted FA 13. Tony Graffanino 675,000 Unrestricted FA 14. Kelly Wunsch 575,000 Unrestricted FA 15. Esteban Loaiza 500,000 3.5 mill team option in 2004, or 150K buyout 16. Armando Rios 450,000 Unrestricted FA 17. Brian Daubach 450,000 Unrestricted FA 18. Mark Buehrle 445,000 Arbitration eligible 19. Jon Garland 375,000 Arbitration eligible 20. Damaso Marte 330,000 Unrestricted FA 21. Dan Wright 325,000 Arbitration eligible or Restricted FA 22. Aaron Rowand 320,000 Arbitration eligible or Restricted FA 23. Joe Crede 315,000 only Arbitration eligible I think 24. Miguel Olivo 300,000 only Arbitration eligible I think 25. Josh Stewart 300,000 only Arbitration eligible I think 26. Scott Schoeneweis 1,425,000 Unrestricted FA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Total Team Salary : 68,949,684 OK, so if we keep the team intact, its gonna be a Payroll of at least $85,260,000. Thats with Everett at this years salary, Robbie at 5 mil, Colon at this years salary, CLee at 7 mil, Flash at 2 mil, Jose at 5mil, Buehrle at 1 mil, Garland at 800K, Marte at 800K, Wright at 400K, Schoenweis at 1 mil, and the young guys at the same salary. Obviously, this isn't gonna happen. So, my best guess is that Everett walks, clearing 9.15 Mil. Jose walks, clearing 5 mil. Daubach and Rios walk, clearing 900K. Then, I believe that Sullivan leaves, clearing 3.1 mil, but costing us 250K to buy it out. That brings us to $67,360,000. Now we'd have a couple spots to fill, but I see that as doable myself. It all hinges on Colon agreeing to the 8 mil year contract, preferrably 3 years, and Robbie at 5 mil for 2 years. It also depends on the arbitration costs. This is doable. Your thoughts? I agree with most of what Yansy said on page 2. I would be very surprised if the team payroll is over 60M next year and that means that some big salaries are going to be gone. I love what Everett has done for the Sox since being aquired, but his 9+M can be used to fill other holes. The Sox already have enough power hitting corner outfield/DH/1B types. His D in CF isn't good and for the money he will be looking for it isn't worth resigning him. Give Rowand a good 2 month to see what he can do. I really think his injury this offseason effected him and he looked much better after being called up. I also like his D in CF which is similar to Erstad's IMO. If he struggles and Reed is continuing to hit well in the minors then call him up. I would love to see Colon back next year, but quality starting pitching is hard to find and that means the Sox would have to outbid most of the big boys, which isn't going to happen. The Sox will probably pick up Loiaza's option and might look for another cheap dimond in the rough bottom of the rotation starter, but Colon is as good as gone. I think Rauch deserves a shot at the rotation, as well as Diaz and Pacheco. Cotts needs to spend some time in the minors improving his control before he gets another look. Valentin should be back next year with his option, if for no other reason because he is the best avalaible. Lets be realistic, the Sox aren't going to sign Tejada or the Japanese SS. The Sox aren't going to add a big salary when they are trying to dump payroll. Besides Tejada isn't that much better then Valentin. Check out the numbers. Tejada's best asset is his power at SS, which is something Valentin already provides. Tejada doesn't steal, makes lots of errors, doesn't hit for a great average, and has poor plate disipline, so why should the Sox waste 10-15M on a guy like that when they can get a slightly worse version for around 5M. I am still a little cautious about Japanese hitters adjusting to the majors as well. I think Alomar is past his prime and not worth the money that he is going to get, however, the Sox really don't have a better option with Jimenez and Hummel shipped out this season. So resigning him might be the only option or hoping that Harris can learn to hit or that Miles is more then just a career minor leaguer. Sullivan is a solid reliever, but isn't worth the 3M option he has. My hope is that Gordon might resign for somewhere near that price. I would love to get rid of Konerko and Koch, but as some people have pointed out thats not going to happen, especially without taking on a big salary in return. I think both Lee and Thomas will be back. In all I think the Sox will cut about 15-20M in payroll this offseason with the 2 biggest losing being Everett's 9+M and Colon's 8+M. I also don't think the Sox will be big players on the FA market. The good news is that the Central is a weak division and that the Twins will probably be cutting payroll as well, so the Central will be ready for the taking. Look out for the Tribe in 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 1. Carl Everett 9,150,000 Unrestricted FA 2. Magglio Ordonez 9,000,000 One more year, 14 mill 3. Bartolo Colon 8,250,000 Unrestricted FA 4. Roberto Alomar 7,689,684 Wants 2 year deal, at signifigantly less porbably 5. Paul Konerko 6,250,000 8 mill in 2004, 8.75 in 2005, 50K raise if traded 6. Jose Valentin 5,000,000 Unrestricted FA 7. Frank Thomas 5,000,000 Mutual options, gonna either cost us 6 or 8 mil 8. Billy Koch 4,250,000 6.375 mill in 2004, 6.5 mill if he pitches in 65 g. 9. Carlos Lee 4,200,000 Arbitration eligible 10. Scott Sullivan 2,800,000 3.1 mill option, or 250K buyout 11. Tom Gordon 1,400,000 Unrestricted FA 12. Sandy Alomar Jr. 700,000 Unrestricted FA 13. Tony Graffanino 675,000 Unrestricted FA 14. Kelly Wunsch 575,000 Unrestricted FA 15. Esteban Loaiza 500,000 3.5 mill team option in 2004, or 150K buyout 16. Armando Rios 450,000 Unrestricted FA 17. Brian Daubach 450,000 Unrestricted FA 18. Mark Buehrle 445,000 Arbitration eligible 19. Jon Garland 375,000 Arbitration eligible 20. Damaso Marte 330,000 Unrestricted FA 21. Dan Wright 325,000 Arbitration eligible or Restricted FA 22. Aaron Rowand 320,000 Arbitration eligible or Restricted FA 23. Joe Crede 315,000 only Arbitration eligible I think 24. Miguel Olivo 300,000 only Arbitration eligible I think 25. Josh Stewart 300,000 only Arbitration eligible I think 26. Scott Schoeneweis 1,425,000 Unrestricted FA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Total Team Salary : 68,949,684 OK, so if we keep the team intact, its gonna be a Payroll of at least $85,260,000. Thats with Everett at this years salary, Robbie at 5 mil, Colon at this years salary, CLee at 7 mil, Flash at 2 mil, Jose at 5mil, Buehrle at 1 mil, Garland at 800K, Marte at 800K, Wright at 400K, Schoenweis at 1 mil, and the young guys at the same salary. Obviously, this isn't gonna happen. So, my best guess is that Everett walks, clearing 9.15 Mil. Jose walks, clearing 5 mil. Daubach and Rios walk, clearing 900K. Then, I believe that Sullivan leaves, clearing 3.1 mil, but costing us 250K to buy it out. That brings us to $67,360,000. Now we'd have a couple spots to fill, but I see that as doable myself. It all hinges on Colon agreeing to the 8 mil year contract, preferrably 3 years, and Robbie at 5 mil for 2 years. It also depends on the arbitration costs. This is doable. Your thoughts? I agree with most of what Yansy said on page 2. I would be very surprised if the team payroll is over 60M next year and that means that some big salaries are going to be gone. I love what Everett has done for the Sox since being aquired, but his 9+M can be used to fill other holes. The Sox already have enough power hitting corner outfield/DH/1B types. His D in CF isn't good and for the money he will be looking for it isn't worth resigning him. Give Rowand a good 2 month to see what he can do. I really think his injury this offseason effected him and he looked much better after being called up. I also like his D in CF which is similar to Erstad's IMO. If he struggles and Reed is continuing to hit well in the minors then call him up. I would love to see Colon back next year, but quality starting pitching is hard to find and that means the Sox would have to outbid most of the big boys, which isn't going to happen. The Sox will probably pick up Loiaza's option and might look for another cheap dimond in the rough bottom of the rotation starter, but Colon is as good as gone. I think Rauch deserves a shot at the rotation, as well as Diaz and Pacheco. Cotts needs to spend some time in the minors improving his control before he gets another look. Valentin should be back next year with his option, if for no other reason because he is the best avalaible. Lets be realistic, the Sox aren't going to sign Tejada or the Japanese SS. The Sox aren't going to add a big salary when they are trying to dump payroll. Besides Tejada isn't that much better then Valentin. Check out the numbers. Tejada's best asset is his power at SS, which is something Valentin already provides. Tejada doesn't steal, makes lots of errors, doesn't hit for a great average, and has poor plate disipline, so why should the Sox waste 10-15M on a guy like that when they can get a slightly worse version for around 5M. I am still a little cautious about Japanese hitters adjusting to the majors as well. I think Alomar is past his prime and not worth the money that he is going to get, however, the Sox really don't have a better option with Jimenez and Hummel shipped out this season. So resigning him might be the only option or hoping that Harris can learn to hit or that Miles is more then just a career minor leaguer. Sullivan is a solid reliever, but isn't worth the 3M option he has. My hope is that Gordon might resign for somewhere near that price. I would love to get rid of Konerko and Koch, but as some people have pointed out thats not going to happen, especially without taking on a big salary in return. I think both Lee and Thomas will be back. In all I think the Sox will cut about 15-20M in payroll this offseason with the 2 biggest losing being Everett's 9+M and Colon's 8+M. I also don't think the Sox will be big players on the FA market. The good news is that the Central is a weak division and that the Twins will probably be cutting payroll as well, so the Central will be ready for the taking. Look out for the Tribe in 2005. I think you're mistaken about Marte. He is not an unrestricted free agent - thank God, cause he could make a boatload of money on the open market - because he doesn't have the service time. He's not even arbitration eligible, I don't think. Personally, I'd be fine with Frank leaving. He's the best hitter I've ever seen in a Sox uniform, but he can be pitched to, and in big series, he's just not there. 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