Jose Paniagua

[Chisoxfn]

So as I was thinking about random guys the Sox have had over the years and I thought about Jose Paniagua. Has their ever been a player in the history of the franchise (or even the game) to have such a negative opinion associated with him based upon such limited time (in his case, 1/3rd of an inning with an organization)? I mean, people on her still reference him as the worst player to wear a uniform (and he was signed to a minimum deal and only pitched 1/3rd an inning...by the way, deserving so...I will remember watching that game and just being astonished in disbelief (I could tell you where I was when I watched it and who I was with too).

 

 

For those that might be too young to remember, below is an article talking a bit about his eventual release and what drove it:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1613303

 

 

[Dick Allen]

So as I was thinking about random guys the Sox have had over the years and I thought about Jose Paniagua. Has their ever been a player in the history of the franchise (or even the game) to have such a negative opinion associated with him based upon such limited time (in his case, 1/3rd of an inning with an organization)? I mean, people on her still reference him as the worst player to wear a uniform (and he was signed to a minimum deal and only pitched 1/3rd an inning...by the way, deserving so...I will remember watching that game and just being astonished in disbelief (I could tell you where I was when I watched it and who I was with too).

 

 

For those that might be too young to remember, below is an article talking a bit about his eventual release and what drove it:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1613303

And the White Sox won the game.

[knightni]

Arnie Munoz gets my vote.

[Chisoxfn]

And the White Sox won the game.

Yep, IIRC, the slide began the following day. Those Manuel teams were some frustrating teams. So much talent, yet so little post-season performances. Mainly due to injuries (Maggs & Frank that one year) and awful starting pitching.

[Chisoxfn]

Arnie Munoz gets my vote.

So when given the list Munoz or Paniagua, you go with Munoz. Munoz to me is just a speck, same as Felix Diaz and a million of other guys who get a callup and give it a shot. Jose pitched 1/3rd of an inning in 1 game with the organization and is talked about in the same breadth (regularly) with Navarro.

[knightni]

"Muñoz made his major league debut in 2004 for the Chicago White Sox in a start against the Montreal Expos. It was a disaster, as Muñoz allowed eleven runs in three innings (including nine in the second inning alone) tying for third all-time for most runs allowed in a major league debut. (Bill James' "Game Score" statistic, which measures pitcher starts — 50 is average, 90 is exceptional, below 20 is poor — scores Munoz' start at minus-7, the worst for a debut start since at least 1918.) Amazingly, Muñoz almost did not emerge as the losing pitcher, as the Sox mounted an incredible comeback, finally falling 17-14. Muñoz went back to the minors, then returned in September, pitching fairly well in relief."

[Dick Allen]

Yep, IIRC, the slide began the following day. Those Manuel teams were some frustrating teams. So much talent, yet so little post-season performances. Mainly due to injuries (Maggs & Frank that one year) and awful starting pitching.

They blamed the slide on him, but that was ridiculous. The guy was horrible, faced 5 batters and 4 scored. The "it gave the Twins confidence" is silly, just an excuse. Where was the White Sox confidence when they battered around Hector Noesi when he was in Texas?

 

But to this day, Paniaqua is still blamed by many to be the cause of the slide, and Manuel at the time, was considered an idiot for using him in an 8-2 game. If you cannot use him then, why was he on the roster?

 

It was a bad pitcher getting lit up, and freaking out, thus ending his career, if it wasn't over anyway.

[southsider2k5]

So as I was thinking about random guys the Sox have had over the years and I thought about Jose Paniagua. Has their ever been a player in the history of the franchise (or even the game) to have such a negative opinion associated with him based upon such limited time (in his case, 1/3rd of an inning with an organization)? I mean, people on her still reference him as the worst player to wear a uniform (and he was signed to a minimum deal and only pitched 1/3rd an inning...by the way, deserving so...I will remember watching that game and just being astonished in disbelief (I could tell you where I was when I watched it and who I was with too).

 

 

For those that might be too young to remember, below is an article talking a bit about his eventual release and what drove it:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1613303

 

The Paniagua stuff still astounds me to this day.

[Dick Allen]

Munoz at one time was a pretty exciting prospect. A lot of people wanted him called up straight from A ball.

[Chisoxfn]

They blamed the slide on him, but that was ridiculous. The guy was horrible, faced 5 batters and 4 scored. The "it gave the Twins confidence" is silly, just an excuse. Where was the White Sox confidence when they battered around Hector Noesi when he was in Texas?

 

But to this day, Paniaqua is still blamed by many to be the cause of the slide, and Manuel at the time, was considered an idiot for using him in an 8-2 game. If you cannot use him then, why was he on the roster?

 

It was a bad pitcher getting lit up, and freaking out, thus ending his career, if it wasn't over anyway.

Completely agree. I can't think of how a guy who is called up from the minors and pitches one game can possibly go down in lore as one of the worst to ever don a uniform. Same with Munoz. I also remember seeing that game, in fact, I think I was in New York at the time, and remember him getting whipped. But you know what, guys get whipped that come up from the minors all the time. The states are filled with guys who got a cup of coffee, stunk, and never saw the big leagues again. Jose was a jackass and it is memorable, but those Sox teams had just absurdly atrocious back ends of the rotation. If you want to blame those Sox teams for not living up to expectations, the blame was squarely on management for not giving Manuel a decent rotation. It was laughable how bad the Sox 4th /5th starters were for most of Manuel's tenure. If you gave those teams the 2005 White Sox rotation, holy hell, would that have been a team.

[Chisoxfn]

Munoz at one time was a pretty exciting prospect. A lot of people wanted him called up straight from A ball.

His curve was supposed to be amazing. And IIRC, that game against the Expos was in the old dome. Montreal needs a team back...I miss those unis and those horrendous domes, haha.

[knightni]

I was at that Paniagua game. I left that game thinking we had the division. Honestly, it was almost like it was all down hill after they cut Paniagua. I just remember Radke and Johan putting us down back to back multiple times and Juan Uribe dropping an infield popup off the bat of Jaque Jones to seal our fate. I still have nightmares about those Twins teams. I remember them vividly.

 

C - Lucroy/AJP/Mauer

1B - Mientkiewcz/Mauer

2B - Rivas/Punto

3B - Koskie

SS - Guzman

LF - Kielty/Stewart

CF - Hunter

RF - Jaque Jones

DH - Ortiz/Lucroy.

That was also the beginning of the Lew Ford Era. *shudders*

[Rowand44]

His curve was supposed to be amazing. And IIRC, that game against the Expos was in the old dome. Montreal needs a team back...I miss those unis and those horrendous domes, haha.

It was. We almost came back in that game too. Good times(not really).

[Rowand44]

Completely agree. I can't think of how a guy who is called up from the minors and pitches one game can possibly go down in lore as one of the worst to ever don a uniform. Same with Munoz. I also remember seeing that game, in fact, I think I was in New York at the time, and remember him getting whipped. But you know what, guys get whipped that come up from the minors all the time. The states are filled with guys who got a cup of coffee, stunk, and never saw the big leagues again. Jose was a jackass and it is memorable, but those Sox teams had just absurdly atrocious back ends of the rotation. If you want to blame those Sox teams for not living up to expectations, the blame was squarely on management for not giving Manuel a decent rotation. It was laughable how bad the Sox 4th /5th starters were for most of Manuel's tenure. If you gave those teams the 2005 White Sox rotation, holy hell, would that have been a team.

The 2003 team was loaded everywhere, just couldn't get it done for whatever reason.

[Dick Allen]

The 2003 team was loaded everywhere, just couldn't get it done for whatever reason.

Billy Koch.

 

If they kept Foulke, I wonder what happens. Of course Cotts helped in 2005.

[Rowand44]

Billy Koch.

 

If they kept Foulke, I wonder what happens. Of course Cotts helped in 2005.

Damaso and Flash were so freaking dominant though. You're definitely not wrong, he was a main reason they had issues but I feel they should have had enough to over come him.

[BaconOnAStick]

If you look in the mirror and say Lew Ford three times somewhere in the world a shallow pop fly will land right between the 2nd baseman and right fielder with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs.

[OmarComing25]

Billy Koch.

 

If they kept Foulke, I wonder what happens. Of course Cotts helped in 2005.

Dan Wright didn't help much either.

[knightni]

If you look in the mirror and say Lew Ford three times somewhere in the world a shallow pop fly will land right between the 2nd baseman and right fielder with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs.

That's really clever!

[Dick Allen]

Dan Wright didn't help much either.

I went to Yankee Stadium on my birthday in 2002. Danny Wright beat the Rocket. Liefer took the Rocket halfway up the 3rd deck in RF. It was a blowout. I think the only run that scored for NY was a Soriano HR. Robin was playing 3B for the Yankees, I was sitting a few rows up from the field. The other thing I remember was Drew Henson whiffing. Wright was good that day.

[cabiness42]

If you want the most convincing evidence that the Sox need to sign an OF very quickly, here it is: a 20+ post thread about Jose Paniagua

[mmmmmbeeer]

God I remember that game....awful. I'm one of the dummies who do think that that game started a slide and JM lost some of his team's confidence. I believe not long after is when JM started rookie Neal Cotts in his first MLB start, at Yankee Stadium against a stacked Yankee lineup while Mark Buerhle, whose turn in the rotation it was, watched from the bench. We lost, badly.

[dasox24]

So when given the list Munoz or Paniagua, you go with Munoz. Munoz to me is just a speck, same as Felix Diaz and a million of other guys who get a callup and give it a shot. Jose pitched 1/3rd of an inning in 1 game with the organization and is talked about in the same breadth (regularly) with Navarro.

Personally, I think of Munoz first. That may not be the case with Sox nation as a whole. But I will never forget that Expos game. I was so excited to see what he could do.

[bmags]

"Muñoz made his major league debut in 2004 for the Chicago White Sox in a start against the Montreal Expos. It was a disaster, as Muñoz allowed eleven runs in three innings (including nine in the second inning alone) tying for third all-time for most runs allowed in a major league debut. (Bill James' "Game Score" statistic, which measures pitcher starts — 50 is average, 90 is exceptional, below 20 is poor — scores Munoz' start at minus-7, the worst for a debut start since at least 1918.) Amazingly, Muñoz almost did not emerge as the losing pitcher, as the Sox mounted an incredible comeback, finally falling 17-14. Muñoz went back to the minors, then returned in September, pitching fairly well in relief."

 

This was one of my favorite games ever. How many rbi's did Uribe have? 9?

[LittleHurt05]

This was one of my favorite games ever. How many rbi's did Uribe have? 9?

 

Seven

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MO...200406190.shtml