Trade targets: who is available and at what cost?

[blackmooncreeping]

I believe the trade route might be reconsidered if the Sox cant land Cespedes or Upton. Who are the players who could be acquired in a deal to come in and take over one of the corner spots in the outfield? There are the aforementioned guys, CarGo and gang in Colorado, Markakis in Atl, Reddick in Oakland. Who would you target in the trade market and what would it take?

[blackmooncreeping]

Forgot Gardner from the Yanks as well

[ChiSox59]

Markakis would be cheap if we picked up the whole tab and have to imagine ATL is motivated to move him. Wouldn't be my first choice, but he'd definitely be an upgrade.

[caulfield12]

CarGo, Dickerson, Blackmon

 

Ethier, Crawford, Puig (MAYBE!), Trayce, Van Slyke (doubt LA is willing to sell low on Pederson unless they know something nobody else does about his work ethic/make-up)

 

Tucker...Astros

 

Inciarte or Markakis, Braves

 

Brett Gardner

 

Matt Kemp

 

Hanley Ramirez

 

Jay Bruce

 

Marcell Ozuna

 

Carlos Gomez (maybe, FA next year)

[hi8is]

I've heard poop is available. Let's get all up in that s***.

[BlackSox13]

Matt Kemp

Michael Bourn and its rumored Atlanta would listen to offers for Enciarte though the price would be steep.

One of Houston's outfielders Gomez, Marisnick or possibly though not likely Tucker are rumored available.

Jay Bruce

The Dodgers Andre Ethier, Carl Crawford, Alex Guerrero

Hanley Ramirez

Dustin Ackley is rumored available

 

Of those players, the only ones I would have an interest in are Kemp, Ethier, Guerrero, one of Houston's outfielders and Bruce if the Reds eat some money. These guys along with Gardner and Markakis.

 

Determining their trade value, that's another story because all we can really do is throw out our best guesses.

 

[CyAcosta41]

It would be VERY White Sox to go after Nick Markakis IF the Sox can't land Cespedes (I'm not buying that we've ever been a player for Upton) within the JR budgetary parameters.

 

Kenny always gets his man (and all that jazz). The Sox have been linked to Markakis at various times during his Orioles heyday.

 

Sure, he's not the star he was once projected to be. And his power numbers have diminished to the point where the best that can be said currently is that he has "gap power."

 

But he's a professional hitter, left-handed, a very likely bet to attain the .350 OBP that is needed and so elusive for the Sox, good doubles guy, strikeout rate is decent, and has always shown that good baseball IQ (that is especially valuable in a #2-hole guy). I know the advanced metrics show his fielding reputation has always been overrated, but he's a lot better than what we have, and he has a strong arm as well.

 

In a way, he's almost a poor man's, rightfield playing Alex Gordon.

 

Widely rumored that Braves want to move him and his contract. At $11M, he comes quite a bit cheaper AAV in 2015 than Gordon (admittedly not the same caliber of player).

 

Have to imagine the requested return will be reasonable -- i.e., no significant prospects going to the Braves. In fact, not inconceivable they'd take a year of John Danks to rid themselves of three years of Markakis (and I'm firmly in the camp that John Danks would be a solid #3 or a damned good #4 pitching in the NL).

 

I'd do it. I'm not willing to totally give up on Avi, but it's time to disrupt his world so he understands that at some point raw athletic prowess needs to translate into major league performance.

Edited January 7, 2016 by CyAcosta41

[BlackSox13]

Markakis would be cheap if we picked up the whole tab and have to imagine ATL is motivated to move him. Wouldn't be my first choice, but he'd definitely be an upgrade.

That's exactly how I feel about the Markakis idea. I can't see him costing too much in terms of prospects and is likely cheaper than signing one of Parra, Jackson or Fowler. Markakis has always played RF so that helps too. Imo, the prospects used to get a player like Markakis will be replaced in June's draft.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, Markakis would be typical...predictable, expected. Boring. ZZZZZZZ.....

 

The Alex Guerrero idea has upside because of his offensive skills, but not sure about him in the OF.

 

Marisnick, the opposite problem.

 

And then with Bourn, just depends on how much money the Braves are willing to eat...

 

So Swisher back to CF and leading off!!!!!

[caulfield12]

It would be VERY White Sox to go after Nick Markakis IF the Sox can't land Cespedes (I'm not buying that we've ever been a player for Upton) within the JR budgetary parameters.

 

Kenny always gets his man (and all that jazz). The Sox have been linked to Markakis at various times during his Orioles heyday.

 

Sure, he's not the star he was once projected to be. And his power numbers have diminished to the point where the best that can be said currently is that he has "gap power."

 

But he's a professional hitter, left-handed, a very likely bet to attain the .350 OBP that is needed and so elusive for the Sox, good doubles guy, strikeout rate is decent, and has always shown that good baseball IQ (that is especially valuable in a #2-hole guy). I know the advanced metrics show his fielding reputation has always been overrated, but he's a lot better than what we have, and he has a strong arm as well.

 

In a way, he's almost a poor man's, rightfield playing Alex Gordon.

 

Widely rumored that Braves want to move him and his contract. At $11M, he comes quite a bit cheaper AAV in 2015 than Gordon (admittedly not the same caliber of player).

 

Have to imagine the requested return will be reasonable -- i.e., no significant prospects going to the Braves. In fact, not inconceivable they'd take a year of John Danks to rid themselves of three years of Markakis (and I'm firmly in the camp that John Danks would be a solid #3 or a damned good #4 pitching in the NL).

 

I'd do it. I'm not willing to totally give up on Avi, but it's time to disrupt his world so he understands that at some point raw athletic prowess needs to translate into major league performance.

 

Who would you replace Danks with in the rotation? Turner, likely not. Beck or Carroll?

 

You'd seemingly have to go for Fister, Latos, Gallardo, Chen, Kennedy, etc. Which are going to cost another $10-15 million, so let's just imagine we're adding something like $8-10 million overall to the payroll, putting us around $127-130. That's seemingly doable.

 

I think the biggest issue there is how willing the Braves are to take Danks for one rebuilding season...rather than just giving up a little subsidy/sweetener to rid the Markakis contract but not taking on additional commitments, since they're also partially on the hook for Arroyo as well. All things considered, they might be more motivated to dump Swisher or Bourn first.

Edited January 7, 2016 by caulfield12

[blackmooncreeping]

Who would you replace Danks with in the rotation? Turner, likely not. Beck or Carroll?

 

You'd seemingly have to go for Fister, Latos, Gallardo, Chen, Kennedy, etc. Which are going to cost another $10-15 million, so let's just imagine we're adding something like $8-10 million overall to the payroll, putting us around $127-130. That's seemingly doable.

 

I think the biggest issue there is how willing the Braves are to take Danks for one rebuilding season...rather than just giving up a little subsidy/sweetener to rid the Markakis contract but not taking on additional commitments, since they're also partially on the hook for Arroyo as well. All things considered, they might be more motivated to dump Swisher or Bourn first.

I could live with either Markakis or Gardner in the OF and hitting in the 2 hole, and agree it could be done without moving any major pieces. I would then also go after one of the 2nd tier OF free agents, and move Melky to DH.

[blackmooncreeping]

That's exactly how I feel about the Markakis idea. I can't see him costing too much in terms of prospects and is likely cheaper than signing one of Parra, Jackson or Fowler. Markakis has always played RF so that helps too. Imo, the prospects used to get a player like Markakis will be replaced in June's draft.

Are you saying you think Austin Jackson is going to make more $$ than Markakis this season?

[BlackSox13]

Are you saying you think Austin Jackson is going to make more $$ than Markakis this season?

Ya, Jackson is a bit of a stretch. He really shouldn't make more, my bad. Good call!

 

Edit: Jackson made 7.7M last in '15 so he won't be too far off from Markakis' salary of 11M.

Edited January 7, 2016 by BlackSox13

[CyAcosta41]

Who would you replace Danks with in the rotation? Turner, likely not. Beck or Carroll?

 

You'd seemingly have to go for Fister, Latos, Gallardo, Chen, Kennedy, etc. Which are going to cost another $10-15 million, so let's just imagine we're adding something like $8-10 million overall to the payroll, putting us around $127-130. That's seemingly doable.

 

I think the biggest issue there is how willing the Braves are to take Danks for one rebuilding season...rather than just giving up a little subsidy/sweetener to rid the Markakis contract but not taking on additional commitments, since they're also partially on the hook for Arroyo as well. All things considered, they might be more motivated to dump Swisher or Bourn first.

 

 

Funny how a once "sexy" player like Markakis has turned into boring. I think that's overstated. He's a pro.

 

Given the construction of this team and the window to succeed, his skill-set is a nice match with the Sox. There are time to take a wild flyer on potential and there's a time to make a good bet -- pay some value, but be pretty confident that even the likely "floor" will give you good overall improvement. It's why for me, I rated the big-3 OF'ers for the Sox: Gordon > Cespedes > Upton (albeit that Cespedes gets an asterisk because his ceiling might be devastating game changer).

 

Taking on Markakis @ $11M, giving up Danks @ nearly $16M, and signing a veteran 4-5 level starter at whatever is inconsequential for a team going for it.

 

And I trust in the Sox ability to select that vet -- personally, I like the idea of Latos, wouldn't touch today's Fister, but might consider E. Jackson as long as Coop continues to whisper in his ear. Assume the other EJ (Johnson) can get it done as a #4 and go from there. If the team performs as expected, but the back end of the rotation looks weak down the stretch, then pony up and rent a starter at the deadline.

 

Finally, past history and performance tells me that many NL GMs will have their eye on John Danks in this last year of his contract. Soft-tossing lefties with guile have a way of spinning some magic facing 8-man lineups with lots of slap hitters and big ballparks.

 

NOT saying I love the idea of trading for Markakis; just saying I wouldn't go crazy over budget to sign Cespedes because the money savings could intelligently make this year's squad a better team in a variety of ways.

[ChiSox59]

Funny how a once "sexy" player like Markakis has turned into boring. I think that's overstated. He's a pro.

 

Given the construction of this team and the window to succeed, his skill-set is a nice match with the Sox. There are time to take a wild flyer on potential and there's a time to make a good bet -- pay some value, but be pretty confident that even the likely "floor" will give you good overall improvement. It's why for me, I rated the big-3 OF'ers for the Sox: Gordon > Cespedes > Upton (albeit that Cespedes gets an asterisk because his ceiling might be devastating game changer).

 

Taking on Markakis @ $11M, giving up Danks @ nearly $16M, and signing a veteran 4-5 level starter at whatever is inconsequential for a team going for it.

 

And I trust in the Sox ability to select that vet -- personally, I like the idea of Latos, wouldn't touch today's Fister, but might consider E. Jackson as long as Coop continues to whisper in his ear. Assume the other EJ (Johnson) can get it done as a #4 and go from there. If the team performs as expected, but the back end of the rotation looks weak down the stretch, then pony up and rent a starter at the deadline.

 

Finally, past history and performance tells me that many NL GMs will have their eye on John Danks in this last year of his contract. Soft-tossing lefties with guile have a way of spinning some magic facing 8-man lineups with lots of slap hitters and big ballparks.

 

NOT saying I love the idea of trading for Markakis; just saying I wouldn't go crazy over budget to sign Cespedes because the money savings could intelligently make this year's squad a better team in a variety of ways.

 

Marlins signed E Jax.

[CyAcosta41]

Marlins signed E Jax.

 

Thank God.

Wouldn't have been a major target of mine, but he could have competed for #5 with Beck and Carroll, with Jackson sliding over to long-relief (where he looks like he'll have success) if he doesn't win a #5 starter competition.

 

Tough to keep track of the comings and goings of these one time shooting stars and now vagabonds.

 

Next you'll tell me Tommy Hansen isn't available.

What?

Too soon?

No offense Tommy -- may you R.I.P.

[Dunt]

People seriously want Markakis? Kemp? Why?

[CyAcosta41]

People seriously want Markakis? Kemp? Why?

 

I'll bite.

 

I for one have no interest in Kemp. Way too expensive for current capabilities. If you can afford him, then you can afford to win the Cespedes auction.

 

But a guy like Markakis is a pro's pro. At $11M, he's a good player and priced fairly. The Sox aren't free spenders and will rarely win a bidding war, primarily because they refuse to play. So you win one occasionally, wrap up some stars on sweetheart deals (hello Sale and Quintana), lock in another one on a fair deal (Abreu), and get incremental improvements where you can.

 

I'm hip to getting a whole bunch of incremental improvement even if all of the individual names don't shout current "star." For instance, add 2 WAR each (possibly more) in RF, 2B, and C ... on top of the maybe 4-5 additional WAR (hopefully) at 3B ... and you've got yourself something like a 10 game swing. Hope that the better team and vibe gets improvement out of Melky and LaRoche (and I think that will happen; it almost has to), plus the better team and competitive spirit brings out the absolute best in Sale, Q, Robertson, and Abreu, and I think that with the always required dollop of good luck, we'd have a contender on our hands.

 

If you have a borderline strong team, you make these incremental improvements every time you can. Of course that assumes that you're intelligent in selecting the specific players for these incremental improvements AND you're budget sensitive so you leave something available for stretch additions and/or next year.

[blackmooncreeping]

People seriously want Markakis? Kemp? Why?

For reasons already articulated in this post, Markakis is actually a pretty good fit on paper for the Sox. As a fallback option if they dont land one of the big fish.

 

No thanks on Kemp, agree with you there

[Chicago White Sox]

Markakis hit 3 HRs in nearly 700 ABs. His ISO last year was .080. For perspective, Carlos Sanchez's ISO was .103.

 

He may have a nice OBP, but no way in hell am I committing $11M/per for three years to a corner OF with those kind of power numbers.

[Lillian]

Markakis hit 3 HRs in nearly 700 ABs. His ISO last year was .080. For perspective, Carlos Sanchez's ISO was .103.

 

He may have a nice OBP, but no way in hell am I committing $11M/per for three years to a corner OF with those kind of power numbers.

 

I concur, and was just about to post that, at this point, he isn't much more than an expensive version of J. B. Shuck.

[CyAcosta41]

Markakis hit 3 HRs in nearly 700 ABs. His ISO last year was .080. For perspective, Carlos Sanchez's ISO was .103.

 

He may have a nice OBP, but no way in hell am I committing $11M/per for three years to a corner OF with those kind of power numbers.

 

I'm certain you're raising this for argument's sake rather than believing his 2015 ISO stops any serious consideration of Markakis as Plan B (or C, D, or E).

 

How about adding these to the brew:

 

* Advanced professional hitter for nearly a decade

* Continuing ability to be a left-handed stick

* Regularly among OF leaders in OBP

* Low-ish strikeouts, plus has a clue about situational hitting

* Been a doubles-machine many years of his career

* Last year's power numbers (first year in the NL) "MAY" be a total outlier

* IS a RF

* Passes the eye-test as a good defender (understand that the somewhat controversial advanced defensive metrics are mixed)

* $11M AAV for the next 3 years is likely solid value for his likely WAR (likely to age fairly well given his body type)

* Cool name

 

Seriously, I can't believe I'm appearing to be an advocate for bringing in 2016 version Nick Markakis. There are all sorts of possible moves I hope we hit on before I go to Plan Whatever. That said, for some of the reasons set forth above and more, he is absolutely a solid incremental addition worth considering if we need to.

 

It's about fit for a particular team. Brute thumping isn't the only gauge of any player, plus what tools can a possible acquisition bring to a team that a certain team might otherwise have in short supply? A football team in need of OL help doesn't forego a prospective lineman because he can't run a sub 5.0 40.

Edited January 7, 2016 by CyAcosta41

[Chicago White Sox]

I'm certain you're raising this for argument's sake rather than believing his 2015 ISO stops any serious consideration of Markakis as Plan B (or C, D, or E).

 

How about adding these to the brew:

 

* Advanced professional hitter for nearly a decade

* Continuing ability to be a left-handed stick

* Regularly among OF leaders in OBP

* Low-ish strikeouts, plus has a clue about situational hitting

* Been a doubles-machine many years of his career

* Last year's power numbers (first year in the NL) "MAY" be a total outlier

* IS a RF

* Passes the eye-test as a good defender (understand that the somewhat controversial advanced defensive metrics are mixed)

* $11M AAV for the next 3 years is likely solid value for his likely WAR (likely to age fairly well given his body type)

* Cool name

 

Seriously, I can't believe I'm appearing to be an advocate for bringing in 2016 version Nick Markakis. There are all sorts of possible moves I hope we hit on before I go to Plan Whatever. That said, for some of the reasons set forth above and more, he is absolutely a solid incremental addition worth considering if we need to.

 

It's about fit for a particular team. Brute thumping isn't the only gauge of any player, plus what tools can a possible acquisition bring to a team that a certain team might otherwise have in short supply? A football team in need of OL help doesn't forego a prospective lineman because he can't run a sub 5.0 40.

IMO, this is very simple. He's averaged about 1.4 WAR over the past five years. Would he be an upgrade over Avi? Sure, as Avi was one of the worst players in baseball last year. However, the worst thing we can do right now is lock ourselves into a multi-year contract with someone who provides below average production. Even if we miss on Cespedes or Upton, with the glut of OF free agents available one of them is bound to take a pillow contract. Either commit to a significant upgrade or go short-term/cheap on a more questionable one. Markakis doesn't fall in either bucket and should be avoided at all costs.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I'm certain you're raising this for argument's sake rather than believing his 2015 ISO stops any serious consideration of Markakis as Plan B (or C, D, or E).

 

How about adding these to the brew:

 

* Advanced professional hitter for nearly a decade

* Continuing ability to be a left-handed stick

* Regularly among OF leaders in OBP

* Low-ish strikeouts, plus has a clue about situational hitting

* Been a doubles-machine many years of his career

* Last year's power numbers (first year in the NL) "MAY" be a total outlier

* IS a RF

* Passes the eye-test as a good defender (understand that the somewhat controversial advanced defensive metrics are mixed)

* $11M AAV for the next 3 years is likely solid value for his likely WAR (likely to age fairly well given his body type)

* Cool name

 

Seriously, I can't believe I'm appearing to be an advocate for bringing in 2016 version Nick Markakis. There are all sorts of possible moves I hope we hit on before I go to Plan Whatever. That said, for some of the reasons set forth above and more, he is absolutely a solid incremental addition worth considering if we need to.

 

It's about fit for a particular team. Brute thumping isn't the only gauge of any player, plus what tools can a possible acquisition bring to a team that a certain team might otherwise have in short supply? A football team in need of OL help doesn't forego a prospective lineman because he can't run a sub 5.0 40.

 

I wouldn't go near Markakis unless Braves eat up a good chunk of his salary, and by good chunk I mean one third of it, and I don't think that's happening.

 

His value mostly came from his plate discipline and defense when he was with the Orioles. But after an offseason neck surgery last season where he had a disc inserted into his neck, he has lost a lot of arm strength as a fielder, and it is industry believe that his arm won't come back. I think the surgery is also part of the cause for his decline in power numbers as well. If you get him, you're only getting a 1.5 WAR ish player who's on the decline. It's still an upgrade over Avi, but I wouldn't want to invest 3 years on him.

[Bob Sacamano]

I remember seeing an article on mlbtr where it was suggested the Braves could move him and a top prospect in order to clear his salary though I don't see why they'd be in a hurry to do so.

 

That signing never made sense since they basically tore it all down after. They could have just signed Aoki. Unless they wanted his work ethic and personality in the clubhouse around all the young players.