Trade targets: who is available and at what cost?

[CyAcosta41]

Sorry -- neglected in my pre morning coffee state to make clear (as I did last evening) that the overall interest in Markakis (as a fallback option) also requires no prospect we really care about being shipped to the Braves as part of any trade, possible difficult contract for difficult contract aspect (Danks? LaRoche???), and some level of Braves financial commitment.

 

It's been rumored in some circles that the Braves want to dump. IF his medicals check out (always have confidence in the Sox on this), then he's well worth taking a flyer on as a possible Plan whatever (but I never suggested he's anywhere near our ideal plan, simply an incremental upgrade).

 

Reasonable minds can differ. That accounts for the ability of MANY trades to be done in the first place.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I wonder what the Cubs would want for Chris Coghlan? He'd be fine as the LH portion of a platoon with someone like Austin Jackson/Steve Pearce.

[Dick Allen]

Markakis' defense has been bad for years, now he's slappy at the plate, and some want to pick him up for the next 3 seasons of decline? If he was a guy that stole bases, his walks would be valuable, but he only gets a couple of those a year.

 

The White Sox can do so much better. Steamer projects a 0.6 WAR in 2016.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Dick Allen

[GREEDY]

Markakis?

 

Do better.

 

Also, calling him a professional twice and a pro's-pro is dope. You forgot that he's a lunchpail kind of guy, hardworking, grinder.

 

This team needs to find upward of 20 wins. Adding the epitome of a 'zero upside', 11 million dollar a year player is the last thing the Sox need to do.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

In all fairness to Cy, it's only a back-up option probably #15-20.

 

Mainly, if we could get rid of Danks' salary and or get salary and prospects (someone that came over from Arizona or Olivera, etc.) back.

 

It's obviously easier to say Gardner, Span, Parra, Fowler, Inciarte, any one of the Rockies, Ozuna, Ethier...but at what cost?

 

Honestly, JR probably doesn't have the appetite for two marginal upgrades that simultaneously boost payroll to $140 million plus.

Edited January 7, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

In all fairness to Cy, it's only a back-up option probably #15-20.

 

Mainly, if we could get rid of Danks' salary and or get salary and prospects (someone that came over from Arizona or Olivera, etc.) back.

 

It's obviously easier to say Gardner, Span, Parra, Fowler, Inciarte, any one of the Rockies, Ozuna, Ethier...but at what cost?

 

Honestly, JR probably doesn't have the appetite for two marginal upgrades that simultaneously boost payroll to $140 million plus.

Adding bad, declining players, owed $33 million does nothing to help the White Sox. If that is the only choice, you might as well see what Avi can give you, as Steamer projects a 0.3 difference in their 2016 WARS. As to the payroll, once again, despite all your claims to the contrary, you have zero idea what JR is thinking. None of us do.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Dick Allen

[GGajewski18]

In all fairness to Cy, it's only a back-up option probably #15-20.

 

Mainly, if we could get rid of Danks' salary and or get salary and prospects (someone that came over from Arizona or Olivera, etc.) back.

 

It's obviously easier to say Gardner, Span, Parra, Fowler, Inciarte, any one of the Rockies, Ozuna, Ethier...but at what cost?

 

Honestly, JR probably doesn't have the appetite for two marginal upgrades that simultaneously boost payroll to $140 million plus.

 

Marlins asking for Chi Chi Gonzalez and another player for Ozuna from the Rangers. That seems like an average price as Gonzalez is nothing special.

[caulfield12]

Adding bad, declining players, owed $33 million does nothing to help the White Sox. If that is the only choice, you might as well see what Avi can give you. As to the payroll, once again, despite all your claims to the contrary, you have zero idea what JR is thinking. None of us do.

 

Are you still in the camp that really believes we're getting Cespedes or Upton?

 

I'll ask this. Other than maybe 2005-2007, when has the White Sox payroll expanded 10-15% over two consecutive seasons...in this case, losing seasons where the team profits were low or marginal compared to that time period?

 

2009, when we added Peavy and Rios, we were coming off a playoff appearance.

 

2011, we were coming off a season where we led the division for a large chunk of time.

 

The only other time would have to have been 2013-2014 with Abreu (and then last offseason), but I'm pretty sure overall payroll decreased significantly despite that addition as we shed a lot of payroll throughout a disappointing 2013.

Edited January 7, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Marlins asking for Chi Chi Gonzalez and another player for Ozuna from the Rangers. That seems like an average price as Gonzalez is nothing special.

 

If that other player's Profar...

 

Sure, but Gonzalez is still much more highly regarded than Erik Johnson, and the Rangers have pitching depth now to deal from and a much deeper system.

 

Surely they would ask for Adams plus a lot more or Fulmer.

[Dick Allen]

Are you still in the camp that really believes we're getting Cespedes or Upton?

 

I'll ask this. Other than maybe 2005-2007, when has the White Sox payroll expanded 10-15% over two consecutive seasons...in this case, losing seasons where the team profits were low or marginal compared to that time period?

 

2009, when we added Peavy and Rios, we were coming off a playoff appearance.

 

2011, we were coming off a season where we led the division for a large chunk of time.

 

The only other time would have to have been 2013-2014 with Abreu (and then last offseason), but I'm pretty sure overall payroll decreased significantly despite that addition.

I hope so. And stop with the payroll. You guys who said the Sox have no money where shocked last year, and then you point to Forbes but then ignore the PROFITS this team has made every year except one. Where is that money Caulfield? You have all the answers. Did it vanish? The Sox are still talking to these guys. Its funny, the Sox are in on all 3. Gordon signs back with KC after they apparently increased their offer about 50%. Now, they supposedly aren't signing anybody because they have no money, but, but, Nick Markakis at $11 million a year for the next 3 years makes sense. NO IT DOESN'T. It's just spending $33 million more that could have been spent on something actually useful that vanished with all of the White Sox $200 million + in profit Forbes has claimed over the years. But I will add him to your list of horrible players you want the Sox to spend their, in your mind, limited resources. Latos, Parra, Markakis, Duensing, and Desmond in June. The list is growing.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

I just don't understand the fascination of the people on here that want the Sox to acquire other teams garbage.

 

The Sox have too many garbage players as it is, there is no reason to trade for more of them.

[caulfield12]

I hope so. And stop with the payroll. You guys who said the Sox have no money where shocked last year, and then you point to Forbes but then ignore the PROFITS this team has made every year except one. Where is that money Caulfield? You have all the answers. Did it vanish? The Sox are still talking to these guys. Its funny, the Sox are in on all 3. Gordon signs back with KC after they apparently increased their offer about 50%. Now, they supposedly aren't signing anybody because they have no money, but, but, Nick Markakis at $11 million a year for the next 3 years makes sense. NO IT DOESN'T. It's just spending $33 million more that could have been spent on something actually useful that vanished with all of the White Sox $200 million + in profit Forbes has claimed over the years. But I will add him to your list of horrible players you want the Sox to spend their, in your mind, limited resources. Latos, Parra, Markakis, Duensing, and Desmond in June. The list is growing.

 

What is your solution, other than the obvious?

 

Waiting with bated breath...as for Duensing, he is good friends with Gordon and I would have invited him to come in and compete with Jennings, Carroll, Beck and Turner as a non roster invitee. No guaranteed salary.

[caulfield12]

I just don't understand the fascination of the people on here that want the Sox to acquire other teams garbage.

 

The Sox have too many garbage players as it is, there is no reason to trade for more of them.

 

Name clear/obvious 2+ war upgrades who won't cost Adams, Anderson or Fulmer. Or more than $15 million per season? Or a draft pick.

 

Not easy.

[Dick Allen]

What is your solution, other than the obvious?

 

Waiting with bated breath...as for Duensing, he is good friends with Gordon and I would have invited him to come in and compete with Jennings, Carroll, Beck and Turner as a non roster invitee. No guaranteed salary.

Your proposal, as unrealistic as it was, was to sign Latos for $10-12 million, sign Parra for $8 million, sign Desmond in June for $10 million. Now you say JR doesn't have the appetite to raise the payroll to $140 million. Your proposal raises it to $150 million. Pick one side of your mouth to argue.

[caulfield12]

Your proposal, as unrealistic as it was, was to sign Latos for $10-12 million, sign Parra for $8 million, sign Desmond in June for $10 million. Now you say JR doesn't have the appetite to raise the payroll to $140 million. Your proposal raises it to $150 million. Pick one side of your mouth to argue.

 

Once again, provide your own solution that you think is better and actually realistic.

 

Instead of something like Pedro Alvarez in RF for $6.5-7.5 million...knowing that he would actually defend worse than Garcia.

 

 

If you believe we can still get Upton or Cespedes for $20 million per year and less than five years, good luck with that belief...

Edited January 7, 2016 by caulfield12

[Y2Jimmy0]

What is your solution, other than the obvious?

 

Waiting with bated breath...as for Duensing, he is good friends with Gordon and I would have invited him to come in and compete with Jennings, Carroll, Beck and Turner as a non roster invitee. No guaranteed salary.

 

 

Gordon wasn't coming to the Sox. He had his heart set on staying in KC and they eventually ponied up. Sox could have offered 4 years and $80 million (which is the most I would have offered) and I believe he stays in KC still.

[LDF]

I just don't understand the fascination of the people on here that want the Sox to acquire other teams garbage.

 

The Sox have too many garbage players as it is, there is no reason to trade for more of them.

 

b/c the sox will not go out and get a marque players via fa's..... all this talk in the fa market is just lip service from the FO ... just my opinion and it will not change until they do sign someone.

 

but in ref, these are posters of looking at 3 or 4th tier options. the sox org has trained the fans to look for those options, b/c of .... oh well i have ranted on this, i will stop here.

 

it is really hard in being a die hard sox fans. when mgnt does not care.

[Dick Allen]

b/c the sox will not go out and get a marque players via fa's..... all this talk in the fa market is just lip service from the FO ... just my opinion and it will not change until they do sign someone.

 

but in ref, these are posters of looking at 3 or 4th tier options. the sox org has trained the fans to look for those options, b/c of .... oh well i have ranted on this, i will stop here.

 

it is really hard in being a die hard sox fans. when mgnt does not care.

I haven't once heard Hahn or KW or JR say they were going after Gordon or Cespedes or Upton. The only thing I see leaked is a 3 year max requirement. I think your FO lip service is misguided. There are a lot of assumptions being made by everyone including myself. But what is actually happening we really don't know and may not ever know.

 

The hope was they would sign one of these guys. Two guys are still on the board and the consensus now is they have no chance on anyone, and it's based on Alex Gordon going back to KC after KC significantly upped their offer and made him leaving about as likely as Konerko leaving after 2005.

 

People need to relax and see how this plays out. There are 2 huge guys still on the board.

[LDF]

I haven't once heard Hahn or KW or JR say they were going after Gordon or Cespedes or Upton. The only thing I see leaked is a 3 year max requirement. I think your FO lip service is misguided. There are a lot of assumptions being made by everyone including myself. But what is actually happening we really don't know and may not ever know.

 

The hope was they would sign one of these guys. Two guys are still on the board and the consensus now is they have no chance on anyone, and it's based on Alex Gordon going back to KC after KC significantly upped their offer and made him leaving about as likely as Konerko leaving after 2005.

 

People need to relax and see how this plays out. There are 2 huge guys still on the board.

 

overall..... good point and in some ways, i agree. but either way, i can't find fault here.

 

good job.

[ChiSox59]

Are you still in the camp that really believes we're getting Cespedes or Upton?

 

I'll ask this. Other than maybe 2005-2007, when has the White Sox payroll expanded 10-15% over two consecutive seasons...in this case, losing seasons where the team profits were low or marginal compared to that time period?

 

2009, when we added Peavy and Rios, we were coming off a playoff appearance.

 

2011, we were coming off a season where we led the division for a large chunk of time.

 

The only other time would have to have been 2013-2014 with Abreu (and then last offseason), but I'm pretty sure overall payroll decreased significantly despite that addition as we shed a lot of payroll throughout a disappointing 2013.

 

You just listed 7 of the past 11 seasons. Do you even think before you just type away?

[southsider2k5]

You just listed 7 of the past 11 seasons. Do you even think before you just type away?

 

Yeah, but what about the other 4 !!!

[caulfield12]

You just listed 7 of the past 11 seasons. Do you even think before you just type away?

 

 

Those are two year cycles...2005 going into 2006, and post 2006 into 2007. And those were two of our winningest teams.

 

The point remains, when have the White Sox upped payroll for TWO consecutive years following losing or below .500 seasons with low/marginal profitability?

 

TWO consecutive years.

 

Very simple request.

 

I actually created a poll about this after the season and almost nobody had them at $135-155 million. The "best" or average optimistic guess was a range between $125-135 million.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Those are two year cycles...2005 going into 2006, and post 2006 into 2007. And those were two of our winningest teams.

 

The point remains, when have the White Sox upped payroll for TWO consecutive years following losing or below .500 seasons with low/marginal profitability?

 

TWO consecutive years.

 

Very simple request.

You like to site Forbes. Their numbers from the 2015 season aren't out, but 2014, according to them was profitable by 31.9 million. Can you let us know the P & L for 2015?

 

Why don't you at least take 30 seconds to look something up once in a while? Your built in conclusions are almost always incorrect.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Dick Allen

[LDF]

 

i am not taking sides. i would like to point out something here.

 

salary signings, fa signing, bonus money and salary coming off the books are also added in the profit margin in that calendar yr.

[striker]

Time for a Redsox/Dodgers Blue Jays/Marlins roster swap

 

Sox Get: Inciarte, Teheran, Markakis, Aybar

Braves Get: Danks, LaRoche, Fullmer, Danish, Engel, Garcia, Sanchez

 

Sox Get: Segura, Braun, Will Smith, Jimmy Nelson, $

Brewers Get: Anderson, Adams, Sanchez, Danks, Garcia, couple other prospects