Baron Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:17 PM) Out of curiosity how many runs did the Sox OF defense cost them in 2015? About 30 runs. That's what I was getting at with Jackson. With him on a down year in this category for him your still saving yourself probably 11 or so. Just off the top of my head I think that's atleast worthy of 4 games worth of losses. Edited January 15, 2016 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Hoyer had no comment about chance of Fowler going back to Cubs https://mobile.twitter.com/TheCCO/status/688404480019312641 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 05:59 PM) You are the one who said Cespedes wouldn't sign with the White Sox, and who would, unless they paid a significant premium. It is easy to understand you. Whatever the current White Sox rumor is, you take the other side. Dexter Fowler would be terrible, wouldn't be able to adjust to the AL, but he made perfect sense for Dayton Moore, who was going to copy KW but only much smarter. Where did I ever say sign Dexter Fowler? Not once. I said the only thing that makes sense is waiting into the season and not surrendering a draft pick. Since most don't believe Desmond or Fowler will get to Opening Day unsigned, that pretty much removes them from consideration...although I'm more on the fence about Desmond because he would be buying low compared to Fowler and is a nice rebound candidate. Still younger. I have said the last two weeks when the rates came down to more reasonable numbers they should go after Cespedes instead of lesser options who won't raise the bar enough. That's the opposite of what? The new philosophy never to give anyone over a three year contract? I thought that was all subterfuge and negotiating tactics, otherwise the only reason to be involved in the first place was some elusive marketing benefit that "at least we were trying." Edited January 17, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Center fielder and leadoff man Dexter Fowler is still out there and could be a better fit on the South Side than any of the Big Three. Fowler, who turns 30 in March, is still unsigned despite playing a major role in the remarkable Cubs playoff season. As you may recall, Fowler started out slowly in 2015 after being acquired from the Astros, hitting .232 with a .309 on-base percentage in the first half. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...120-column.html Have not heard a thing on Fowler. I guess he's waiting for Cespedes to sign and then his market will come to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Fowler or Desmond? Free agent-wise, who would you target now that they seem to have screwed the pooch on Cespedes? Both cost a pick (barf). Both could hit 2nd in the order. Fowler means we can move Avi out of the starting OF. Desmond means Avi is still starting in our OF. Can we work a deal for Revere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Fowler or Desmond? Free agent-wise, who would you target now that they seem to have screwed the pooch on Cespedes? Both cost a pick (barf). Both could hit 2nd in the order. Fowler means we can move Avi out of the starting OF. Desmond means Avi is still starting in our OF. Can we work a deal for Revere? Why would the Sox be considering giving up a draft pick for an IF who has a career 99 OPS+ and had an 80 OPS+ last season? I've seen his name mentioned several times but I'd rather see what Saladino can do. Sign Fowler if he'll take a 3 year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 01:45 PM) Why would the Sox be considering giving up a draft pick for an IF who has a career 99 OPS+ and had an 80 OPS+ last season? I've seen his name mentioned several times but I'd rather see what Saladino can do. Sign Fowler if he'll take a 3 year deal. How large is the improvement over 2b, SS and 3b last year? What about WRC+? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 20, 2016 -> 07:06 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...120-column.html Have not heard a thing on Fowler. I guess he's waiting for Cespedes to sign and then his market will come to him? Second half last year Fowler went .272/.389/.463. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 01:45 PM) Why would the Sox be considering giving up a draft pick for an IF who has a career 99 OPS+ and had an 80 OPS+ last season? I've seen his name mentioned several times but I'd rather see what Saladino can do. Sign Fowler if he'll take a 3 year deal. Because they need another bat, obviously, and Desmond fits that bill outside of last year's crater job. Why would you give up a pick for Fowler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 How large is the improvement over 2b, SS and 3b last year? What about WRC+? Desmond's WRC+ in 2015 was 83. His fWAR was 1.7. Saladino only projects to be in the 0.0-0.5 range, but that's too steep a price to pay for a marginal upgrade. Fowler had a WRC+ of 110 and a fWAR of 3.2. Much more bang for your buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 01:52 PM) Desmond's WRC+ in 2015 was 83. His fWAR was 1.7. Saladino only projects to be in the 0.0-0.5 range, but that's too steep a price to pay for a marginal upgrade. Fowler had a WRC+ of 110 and a fWAR of 3.2. Much more bang for your buck. So we're just going to assume every player repeats their previous season's performance? Would have been wonderful if we could have banked on that last year in regards to Samardzija, LaRoche, Melky and Alexei (and even Abreu). The previous three seasons prior to 2015 Desmond was the far better player than Fowler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 My opinion is Desmond is the opposite of Cespedes in terms of how they'd react to a long-term deal. Cespedes might have a hard time staying focused, but I believe Desmond pressed a lot last year after turning down the extension and would be more relaxed with a few years on his new contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I'm firmly in the Jackson camp, but can't we at least let one of our position players develop at MLB level? What if Saladino surpasses expectations and can move to 3b after Frazier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) I'm firmly in the Jackson camp, but can't we at least let one of our position players develop at MLB level? What if Saladino surpasses expectations and can move to 3b after Frazier? I prefer Jackson as well and would like to see what Saladino can do at SS. I'm not against the idea of Desmond at all but signing Desmond doesn't help the Sox OF situation so I'm kinda stuck in the middle. I know this won't be a popular idea but in an effort to keep the comp pick I'm not against rolling the dice by signing Jackson for CF, move Eaton to LF, Melky to RF, bench LaRoche and sign Alvarez to a one year contract to DH and hope he can build enough value to be worthy of a comp pick in the '17 draft. Jackson upgrades the defense and brings a bit of speed to the lineup while Alvarez provides some middle of the lineup LH power. Not the best solution but both players are affordable and do not cost a pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 10:19 PM) I prefer Jackson as well and would like to see what Saladino can do at SS. I'm not against the idea of Desmond at all but signing Desmond doesn't help the Sox OF situation so I'm kinda stuck in the middle. I know this won't be a popular idea but in an effort to keep the comp pick I'm not against rolling the dice by signing Jackson for CF, move Eaton to LF, Melky to RF, bench LaRoche and sign Alvarez to a one year contract to DH and hope he can build enough value to be worthy of a comp pick in the '17 draft. Jackson upgrades the defense and brings a bit of speed to the lineup while Alvarez provides some middle of the lineup LH power. Not the best solution but both players are affordable and do not cost a pick. for the total cost of the whole spending, i too like the jackson rt and pickup A Simon or T Lincecum as a reclamation project. i would love to have an unbelievable tough pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) I prefer Jackson as well and would like to see what Saladino can do at SS. I'm not against the idea of Desmond at all but signing Desmond doesn't help the Sox OF situation so I'm kinda stuck in the middle. I know this won't be a popular idea but in an effort to keep the comp pick I'm not against rolling the dice by signing Jackson for CF, move Eaton to LF, Melky to RF, bench LaRoche and sign Alvarez to a one year contract to DH and hope he can build enough value to be worthy of a comp pick in the '17 draft. Jackson upgrades the defense and brings a bit of speed to the lineup while Alvarez provides some middle of the lineup LH power. Not the best solution but both players are affordable and do not cost a pick. Dude you gotta stop with the Alvarez thing. He is no better than LaRoche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 03:52 PM) Dude you gotta stop with the Alvarez thing. He is no better than LaRoche. As a DH he is much better than LaRoche. LaRoche had a .687 OPS last year, Alvarez had a .780. He had double the home runs. I would have much rather taken Alvarez as a DH than LaRoche (granted laroche could spell abreu at first better). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 06:09 PM) As a DH he is much better than LaRoche. LaRoche had a .687 OPS last year, Alvarez had a .780. He had double the home runs. I would have much rather taken Alvarez as a DH than LaRoche (granted laroche could spell abreu at first better). Here's the problem with that logic. 1. LaRoche in 2014 was MUCH better than Alvarez. Alvarez got hurt and put up about a .720 OPS and didn't play the last 2 months. LaRoche was vastly better than that. 2. Yes, LaRoche is older and so perhaps counting on him to recover is unlikely, but it's equally possible that Alvarez could backslide once again. So you've got a win for Alvarez on offense, but it's at best a narrow win. 3. Defense, like you mention, easily goes to LaRoche. If you didn't have LaRoche under contract already, perhaps you offer Alvarez a few million and see what he can do to fill the role, but with one wild card LH hitting DH already under contract, it seems a little odd to spend extra money on another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 03:52 PM) Dude you gotta stop with the Alvarez thing. He is no better than LaRoche. 2015 numbers say otherwise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Fowler not worth the contract he will command and certainly not worth giving up a draft pick on top of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 My god, I'm sorry I gave LaRoche too much credit, he had a .634 OPS. So you are saying that the Pedro Alvarez backslide at age 29 to a .720 OPS is still worse than Adam LaRoche at age 37 after he looked like a weak, broken man? It is not a question who I'd prefer more at DH, though certainly I understand nobody wants 12 million on the bench and another 6-8 million to play the limited role you paid the former for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 06:23 PM) My god, I'm sorry I gave LaRoche too much credit, he had a .634 OPS. So you are saying that the Pedro Alvarez backslide at age 29 to a .720 OPS is still worse than Adam LaRoche at age 37 after he looked like a weak, broken man? It is not a question who I'd prefer more at DH, though certainly I understand nobody wants 12 million on the bench and another 6-8 million to play the limited role you paid the former for. Given the "no one under contract" choice, yeah I'd go with Alvarez too, but it's at least a more narrow choice. If we play the same game that people are ok with playing for Melky and ignore a good chunk of the season, LaRoche's OPS in the middle of June was still .750. He at least had 2.5 months of that in him last year, so if he's a "weak, broken man" it was something that happened to him after mid-June. The real trick is the "unfortunately one of them is already under contract" part and that's not going to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) What happened to bucket? Any secondary confirmation we are actually in on Fowler? Edited January 21, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 As a DH he is much better than LaRoche. LaRoche had a .687 OPS last year, Alvarez had a .780. He had double the home runs. I would have much rather taken Alvarez as a DH than LaRoche (granted laroche could spell abreu at first better). [/quote Alvarez is superfluous on the Sox. I guarantee you that they will not sign him and haven't even considered it, short of somehow ditching LaRoche. I'm also not convinced that LaRoche is cooked. The dude had a hand problem last year and was terrible, but I think he's a nice bounce back candidate. Is he worth $13M? Hell no, and that's why he's still on the Sox and will be on Opening Day. I wouldn't be that surprised if LaRoche out OPS'd Pedro in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Interesting tweet from Fowler. Some rumors about a possible Cubs/Tampa trade as well. https://mobile.twitter.com/DexterFowler/sta...327354103599104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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