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Dexter Fowler as a secondary option


blackmooncreeping

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 03:12 PM)
At market price, when there are other options. So no, I am not missing that, I am just able to handle the different considerations for different options for the white sox and come up with conclusions for what's best for the White Sox.

 

You, on the other hand, are solely entertained by taking what you take to be a "board opinion", mash multiple opinions into a single, made-up poster, and push the made-up poster's opinion to an illogical extreme that suits you: the 28th pick is more valuable than Dexter Fowler. No, but the 28th pick + market price and years may be reason to not sign a player that provides just elite OBP to Sox.

I have no idea how you get to that conclusion about me. I just think Fowler is worth giving up the 28th pick. That's all. Considering all the trade proposals on this site including Anderson, and some thinking certain players would cost Fulmer, I would be fine giving up the 28th pick for a pretty significant upgrade considering it was an extra pick as it is. It is funny, I defended the Sox not trading Shark last year and mentioned this pick. It wasn't considered nearly as valuable then. If Fowler was signed to a contract last July and the Sox traded Shark for him, I doubt many would say the draft pick was more important than the player.

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QUOTE (Knackattack @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 03:13 PM)
The pick itself is important because we do have to stock the farm with some talent. You never know if some one slides due to some concern and tears it up quick making another player expendable to help for 2017. However for a player like Desmond or Fowler who you could get a little cheaper than normal, I'd be okay with losing it.

You would still have 2 picks in the top 50, and it may behoove the Sox to spend some of the money they would have spent on pick #28 internationally, maybe even go over the allotment.

 

I guess technically you can say they would spend it on Fowler, but the alternatives cost money as well.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 03:08 PM)
And who are you going to be able to draft at 28 next June that will help the White Sox midseason?

 

Which is exactly the point. When you give away these guys, you create future holes for the major league team. This is what Kenny did for 10 years.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 03:23 PM)
Which is exactly the point. When you give away these guys, you create future holes for the major league team. This is what Kenny did for 10 years.

Who did Kenny give away other than Gio who would changed the White Sox fortunes in the slightest?

 

He sold high on a lot more prospects than he did not.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 03:27 PM)
Who did Kenny give away other than Gio who would changed the White Sox fortunes in the slightest?

 

He sold high on a lot more prospects than he did not.

 

That isn't just who he traded. It is who he passed up to draft less expensive players, and the draft picks they gave up to sign players. It isn't as simple as who they traded away.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 01:29 PM)
That isn't just who he traded. It is who he passed up to draft less expensive players, and the draft picks they gave up to sign players. It isn't as simple as who they traded away.

I would bet that during Kenny's time the Sox actually got more picks or close to more picks than they gave up (excluding last year, which would fall under "Hahn's reign as GM"). Now the whole what you are willing to pay / how much they invested in draft, is completely fair game. I'd also be one who said Sox needed to scout and draft better, but I can argue Kenny did a pretty good job giving up guys at there peak value and getting something for them. Rarely, if ever (Gio is by far the biggest exception), did the Sox give up a piece who turned into an above average big leaguer.

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Finally, there is Fowler, whose return to the Cubs would make similar sense, enabling Jason Heyward to remain in right, except for two things: The Cubs remain high on Jorge Soler's potential, and already have lost their top two draft choices for signing Heyward and right-hander John Lackey. They could use the comp pick for Fowler; their first selection is No. 104.

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/ian-des...aft-pick-012516

 

Rosenthal mentions how the Sox could be a fit for Desmond/Fowler. Nothing really new here, but a nice write-up to read while the lack of Sox rumors bores me to tears.

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QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 05:38 PM)
Scott Merkin trying to ring that they are potentially done bell again with his latest article. Also thinks that Garcia is going to surpass his projected WAR next year.

I just read it. I really hope the fans ask him some tough questions at SoxFest. If we enter the 2016 season without at least one more significant addition, then Hahn has officially half-assed it and his job should be on the line. A complete lack of direction is simply unacceptable given where our roster stands.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 11:45 PM)
I just read it. I really hope the fans ask him some tough questions at SoxFest. If we enter the 2016 season without at least one more significant addition, then Hahn has officially half-assed it and his job should be on the line. A complete lack of direction is simply unacceptable given where our roster stands.

 

Yep, Hahn's job needs to be on the line. He hasn't put together a contending team at this point while also putting together a terrible farm system. You can't go into the season with no alternatives to Garcia, LaRoche and Saladino.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 03:29 PM)
That isn't just who he traded. It is who he passed up to draft less expensive players, and the draft picks they gave up to sign players. It isn't as simple as who they traded away.

So another answer for nobody.

 

I will give you they passed on Boras clients, but so did a lot of teams. Other than that, they gave Borchard the biggest bonus of all time at the time. KW fired Duane Shaffer because of his bad drafts. It wasn't bonus money that made them pick Mitchell over Trout.

 

And how many draft picks did they give up to sign players? They gave up one for Dunn, other than that he was the first free agent from another team KW gave more than $20 million.

 

The vast majority of draft picks wind up in a different profession. Some are good, and some you hope can become inventory for trade. I will give you there will be a player or more available at 28 who will be a future all star, and maybe even better than that. What evidence does one have that the White Sox will select him? The better chance is it becomes someone you can trade someday for someone like Fowler. That is essentially what you would be doing anyway.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 03:23 PM)
Which is exactly the point. When you give away these guys, you create future holes for the major league team. This is what Kenny did for 10 years.

 

Agree 100%. Have we really given up that many great prospects? Other than Montas, I think the other guys were completely selling high (especially TT). Speaking in terms of this year.

 

While I am a proponent of the trade route, I am okay with Fowler or Desmond. I think both of them could slot into the 2 (Fowler maybe lead off) or 6 hole pretty nicely.

 

At this point though I just want another addition before the season, be it trade or signing.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2016 -> 01:02 AM)
So another answer for nobody.

 

I will give you they passed on Boras clients, but so did a lot of teams. Other than that, they gave Borchard the biggest bonus of all time at the time. KW fired Duane Shaffer because of his bad drafts. It wasn't bonus money that made them pick Mitchell over Trout.

 

And how many draft picks did they give up to sign players? They gave up one for Dunn, other than that he was the first free agent from another team KW gave more than $20 million.

 

The vast majority of draft picks wind up in a different profession. Some are good, and some you hope can become inventory for trade. I will give you there will be a player or more available at 28 who will be a future all star, and maybe even better than that. What evidence does one have that the White Sox will select him? The better chance is it becomes someone you can trade someday for someone like Fowler. That is essentially what you would be doing anyway.

 

I like draft picks as much as anyone, but the chance to get someone that will be a top 5-7 player on this team at lower than predicted AAV is something this organization can't pass up in my opinion. They need to keep adding to the talent level on the MLB roster.

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i have been reading and there is a lot of compelling arguments, from both sides, that made this reading enjoyable.

 

however the object of this discussion is not for an org to have the most talented, a system of unequal talents.... the main reason, as far as i can understand is to provide a steady pipeline of talent, whether it is thru trades or not, to make the parent team, all that much stronger... to help the team get to the playoff.

 

it would be nice to have a good system that can do that, and an equally great team at the major level to utilize them, but the sox don't... the last time the sox really provided great talent from the minors to the majors were in the 90's. i am not including the several yrs.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 06:59 PM)
...of zero.

 

Like I said in the thread with that article it is actually pretty generous. He doesnt have near good enough defense or the offense to make up for that deficiency.

 

If you actually argue with Scott he just repeats one year and you'll see.

Edited by Baron
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Nick Hostetler definitely deserves a chance to make his own imprint...that shouldn't overwhelm a "too good to pass up" deal with a Desmond or even Fowler, but you have to consider the possibility he just might be the one who does draft that great player at 28.

 

We already found one further back in Adams, and there were a lot of scouts thinking it was possible to get the same impact out of Beck at the time he was drafted.

 

 

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QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 07:05 PM)
Like I said in the thread with that article it is actually pretty generous. He doesnt have near good enough defense or the offense to make up for that deficiency.

 

If you actually argue with Scott he just repeats one year and you'll see.

Lol, sounds like something Hawk would say.

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