blackmooncreeping Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 09:22 PM) I love the idea but JR would need to open up his wallet. We're talking about adding CarGo's '16 salary of 17M + Jackson's salary 8/9M ( speculating) to the payroll that already sits at 119M and ending up at about 145M total. Kind of a stretch, IMHO. Edit: we can knock that total down to around 140/141M because I did not take into account trading Avi's speculated arbitration salary. Still seems to be a stretch. Purely speculative, but I think JR could be convinced to bump payroll to $140 million for the "right guy", aka Cespedes or Upton, or a combo of trade (CarGo) and FA (Jackson). That would be a pretty good lineup: Eaton Melky Abreu CarGo Frazier Laroche Avila/Navarro Jackson Saladino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 09:33 PM) Purely speculative, but I think JR could be convinced to bump payroll to $140 million for the "right guy", aka Cespedes or Upton, or a combo of trade (CarGo) and FA (Jackson). That would be a pretty good lineup: Eaton Melky Abreu CarGo Frazier Laroche Avila/Navarro Jackson Saladino Wait, if LaRoche is in the lineup, how could 4 outfielders (Eaton, Melky, CarGo, Jackson) all be in the lineup at the same time? Where's Lawrie? Am I missing something? Edited January 13, 2016 by ChiSoxFanMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 09:33 PM) Purely speculative, but I think JR could be convinced to bump payroll to $140 million for the "right guy", aka Cespedes or Upton, or a combo of trade (CarGo) and FA (Jackson). That would be a pretty good lineup: Eaton Melky Abreu CarGo Frazier Laroche Avila/Navarro Jackson Saladino You wanna put some positions in your lineup? You have 4 outfielders, a dh, and no second baseman. That would be a pretty odd lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 09:37 PM) You wanna put some positions in your lineup? You have 4 outfielders, a dh, and no second baseman. That would be a pretty odd lineup. My bad, I meant to put Lawrie and typed Laroche instead. You could possibly bat Lawrie or Jackson in the 2 hole in order to drop Melky back to 5th or 6th, but I think they might K too much to be an effective #2 hitter. cf-Eaton dh-Melky 1b-Abreu rf-CarGo 3b-Frazier 2b-Lawrie c-Avila/Navarro lf-Jackson ss-Saladino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Mark Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 09:42 PM) My bad, I meant to put Lawrie and typed Laroche instead. You could possibly bat Lawrie or Jackson in the 2 hole in order to drop Melky back to 5th or 6th, but I think they might K too much to be an effective #2 hitter. cf-Eaton dh-Melky 1b-Abreu rf-CarGo 3b-Frazier 2b-Lawrie c-Avila/Navarro lf-Jackson ss-Saladino Unless someone takes LaRoche's salary, which doesn't appear to be possible at this point, I think he is going to be a part of the starting lineup from the start of the season (at least against RHP). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 09:54 PM) Unless someone takes LaRoche's salary, which doesn't appear to be possible at this point, I think he is going to be a part of the starting lineup from the start of the season (at least against RHP). Unless the Sox end up bringing in 2 outfielders, I think you're unfortunately correct. If that's the case, I'm willing to give Laroche the first month to hit against righties; if he still sucks then cut bait. I just really hope that's NOT the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 08:27 PM) Awful article by Levine. Avi wouldn't be the main piece, it would be Q or Rodon I'm sorry, but in what world is CarGo worth anything close to Q & Rodon? They may have asked for Q originally but it was a stupid ask then and it would be an ever dumber ask now. Edited January 13, 2016 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 10:04 PM) I'm sorry, but in what world is CarGo worth anything close to Q & Rodon? They may have asked for Q originally but it was a stupid ask and it would be an ever dumb ask now. That's what I'm thinking/hoping as well. If they can acquire CarGo for less than that as the centerpiece, then maybe we can bring in Jackson as well to play LF. Colorado has Mark Reynolds penciled in at first I think, hardly a defensive guy. Is there a way we can convince them to take Laroche & cash in a deal, he could either platoon with Reynolds, or at least be able to spell him defensively in the late innings and lefty hitter off the bench. I'm guessing we would need to include a better prospect if they're going to take on Laroche...what would get that deal done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 If the price was Adams and Avail it'd be done already in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Wilmer Reina @WilmerReina 9m9 minutes ago Source: "CarGo stay in #Rockies" https://twitter.com/WilmerReina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 $38.8 million for CarGo over a two year time span MIGHT be considered a fair price (simply because it's not for a long-term)...but I wouldn't in a million years trade Q/Rodon/Anderson/Fulmer to have the right to pay CarGo that much. Otherwise, it would be more logical to just roll the dice on contracts for 4 years/$80-90 million (with opt-outs) with Cespedes or Upton. Rodon or Q alone have to be worth much more than the possibility of Upton or Cespedes under-performing in the back half of those contracts. The key would be balancing the front-loaded/opt-out aspects with the payroll flexibility side of things. The Royals are only paying Alex Gordon $28 million combined the next two seasons, for example. In terms of competing with KC, CarGo would actually cost $10 million more in 2016/17...that's a HUGE gamble based on 1/2 season of play when the Rockies weren't even competing for anything at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 With our moves this offseason, CarGo makes a lot of sense considering he has 2 years left. If we could get him for Avi and Adams? I'd probably do it. I really like Adams but he's not even close to contributing. I still would hate to give him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 11:08 PM) With our moves this offseason, CarGo makes a lot of sense considering he has 2 years left. If we could get him for Avi and Adams? I'd probably do it. I really like Adams but he's not even close to contributing. I still would hate to give him up. I don't get this logic at all. Why would it make more sense to add another guy who will be a free agent in two years when we already have three in Frazier, Melky, & Lawrie? How in the world do you think we're going to fill all these holes? And if it's with prospects, then kiss the 2018 season goodbye and maybe even 2019, which are Sale's last two years of control. Most of our pitching staff including all our key starters our locked up for the next four years. The only reason our window will be two years is because we'll have no one left on the position player at that point if we keep adding guys with two years of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) The two years if they did that would be make or break decision time on a complete rebuild or fortifying a playoff team after 2017. Right now, all the additions are geared towards that window of 2016-17. You bring up the logical concern...with no "bridge" to 2018 and 2019 at the current moment, other than Anderson/Fulmer/Adams...they're left with no clear direction if they don't sign anyone to a longer-term deal. Maybe there's still too much uncertainty internally about whether those three minor leaguers added to the current core are enough to justify adding a Desmond, Upton or Cespedes to a 3-5 year contract. Edited January 13, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 06:12 AM) The two years if they did that would be make or break decision time on a complete rebuild or fortifying a playoff team after 2017. Right now, all the additions are geared towards that window of 2016-17. You bring up the logical concern...with no "bridge" to 2018 and 2019 at the current moment, other than Anderson/Fulmer/Adams...they're left with no clear direction if they don't sign anyone to a longer-term deal. Maybe there's still too much uncertainty internally about whether those three minor leaguers added to the current core are enough to justify adding a Desmond, Upton or Cespedes to a 3-5 year contract. My concern is the free agent class after the 2017 season isn't supposed to be very good, so you may have to rely on internal options to fill these spots. Say we add GarGo and end up losing him, Frazier, Melky, & Lawrie in two years. Does anyone feel comfortable trying to compete with two of May, Engel, & Hawkins in the OF, plus Michalczewski at 3B and who the f*** knows at 2B? I know I don't. And I agree in two years it's make or break time, as we can still get a huge package for Sale at that time if things go south between now and then. However, even if we decide to sell of pieces, is it really the end of the world having Cespedes on the books for two more years? Best case scenario you trade him for some prospects, worst case scenario he is dead salary for a team not trying to compete. Making roster decisions that fit squarely into a two year window is beyond stupid and I really hope the Sox aren't thinking this way. Edited January 13, 2016 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Not a surprise, but Heyman reports the Sox inquired on CarGo. Sources: teams to inquire this winter about Cargo include Bal, STL, CWS, LAA, SF, Wash (SF, Wash have since acquired an OF) https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/687248036599328768 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 06:35 AM) My concern is the free agent class after the 2017 season isn't supposed to be very good, so you may have to rely on internal options to fill these spots. Say we add GarGo and end up losing him, Frazier, Melky, & Lawrie in two years. Does anyone feel comfortable trying to compete with two of May, Engel, & Hawkins in the OF, plus Michalczewski at 3B and who the f*** knows at 2B? I know I don't. And I agree in two years it's make or break time, as we can still get a huge package for Sale at that time if things go south between now and then. However, even if we decide to sell of pieces, is it really the end of the world having Cespedes on the books for two more years? Best case scenario you trade him for some prospects, worst case scenario he is dead salary for a team not trying to compete. Making roster decisions that fit squarely into a two year window is beyond stupid and I really hope the Sox aren't thinking this way. None of those guys strike me as future All-Stars...which is which bring us to the precipice every time. Davidson and Avi play at 2-3 war level and they're not stuck behind the 8 ball...or Hawkins/Viciedo/Beckham play to projections. Any combination of non-abysmal development results would work, including Walker and Jared Mitchell as well. The main factors that makes a teardown almost impossible at that point are 1) the fact you're destroying your negotiating position for a new tv rights deal and 2) also white flagging Chicagoland to the Cubs simultaneously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 09:33 PM) Purely speculative, but I think JR could be convinced to bump payroll to $140 million for the "right guy", aka Cespedes or Upton, or a combo of trade (CarGo) and FA (Jackson). That would be a pretty good lineup: Eaton Melky Abreu CarGo Frazier Laroche Avila/Navarro Jackson Saladino I agree and I hope I don't come across as " JR is cheap". I'm just not going to assume JR will raise the payroll is all. No doubt JR has shown in the past that he will spend if the circumstances look like a fit for the Sox. I like the combo idea of trading for one of CarGo/Blackmon and signing Jackson over signing just one of Upton/Cespedes. Just my preference is all. Just want to point out that your lineup has four outfielders plus LaRoche, I think you missed Lawrie. Edit: never mind, I see you corrected it. Edited January 13, 2016 by BlackSox13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 06:01 AM) I don't get this logic at all. Why would it make more sense to add another guy who will be a free agent in two years when we already have three in Frazier, Melky, & Lawrie? How in the world do you think we're going to fill all these holes? And if it's with prospects, then kiss the 2018 season goodbye and maybe even 2019, which are Sale's last two years of control. Most of our pitching staff including all our key starters our locked up for the next four years. The only reason our window will be two years is because we'll have no one left on the position player at that point if we keep adding guys with two years of control. One thing to keep in mind is that Frazier and especially Lawrie are young enough to be considered extension candidates to keep them around beyond the next two seasons. Not saying it will happen, just that the possibility exists. I do agree with your points about CarGo and Melky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 10:07 AM) One thing to keep in mind is that Frazier and especially Lawrie are young enough to be considered extension candidates to keep them around beyond the next two seasons. Not saying it will happen, just that the possibility exists. I do agree with your points about CarGo and Melky. And so was Jeff Samardzija, or so we heard all last offseason. Frazier's going to be up for a huge payday if he puts up the same stats he did for Cincy because of the dearth of quality 3b in MLB...and in that same Alex Gordon higher risk age territory. Edited January 13, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 10:14 AM) And so was Jeff Samardzija, or so we heard all last offseason. Frazier's going to be up for a huge payday if he puts up the same stats he did for Cincy because of the dearth of quality 3b in MLB...and in that same Alex Gordon higher risk age territory. That's a horrible comp. Samardzija was very clear that he was going to free agency, we all knew that including the Sox FO but for some reason they thought they could change his mind and thankfully they did not. I'm only saying the possibility exists with Frazier and Lawrie, not that it will actually will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Gonzalez staying in Colorado was a big reason that Parra signed there. It will likely be Blackmon, or perhaps Dickerson, who is traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-decline...ez-star-player/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-decline...ez-star-player/ Thanks for posting this. Pretty enlightening and I didn't realize CarGo was THAT bad against lefties, yikes! SoxPride18: I'm just going to go ahead and give you credit right now. I think maybe you were right yesterday when you said Blackmon could cost more than CarGo in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 09:29 AM) Thanks for posting this. Pretty enlightening and I didn't realize CarGo was THAT bad against lefties, yikes! SoxPride18: I'm just going to go ahead and give you credit right now. I think maybe you were right yesterday when you said Blackmon could cost more than CarGo in a trade. It's hard to believe Blackmon is almost 30, too. He'd be a good pick up but not sure if he's worth the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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