southsider2k5 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 02:03 PM) What makes you think the Sox would give up more for CarGo than they did for Frazier when Frazier's younger, has been the better player for the last two seasons, doesn't have the health concerns that CarGo does and will cost $25 million less than CarGo over the next two seasons? Denard Span is getting $31 million in a contract over the next 3 years, plus a potential $5 million in total incentives, and a $4 million buyout on the 4th year, or another $12 million for the 4th year. Using that contract as a free agent baseline, I feel like Carlos Gonzalez would get a lot more than that as a free agent, meaning he has some surplus value for a trade. How much? That is the interesting question. Would he be a $15 million player on the open market? How about $18 million like Alex Gordon? Answering that will tell you how much a team would have to give up in trade for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glangon Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 08:15 PM) Denard Span is getting $31 million in a contract over the next 3 years, plus a potential $5 million in total incentives, and a $4 million buyout on the 4th year, or another $12 million for the 4th year. Using that contract as a free agent baseline, I feel like Carlos Gonzalez would get a lot more than that as a free agent, meaning he has some surplus value for a trade. How much? That is the interesting question. Would he be a $15 million player on the open market? How about $18 million like Alex Gordon? Answering that will tell you how much a team would have to give up in trade for him. Cargo for La Roche and Adams. We get Cargo, get salary relief on La Roche, they get a good prospect in Adams and we free up some money to get Fister or Lexi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Providing that there is a reasonable expectation that he would be able to hit outside of Colorado, he would be a very desirable option. He fits the 2 year window, is not unaffordable, left handed power bat, with high OBP and a right fielder. I'd give up Anderson for him, but then I don't value Anderson as much as most on this board do. To me, Anderson is one of those "toolsy" athletes, who has yet to establish that he is all that good at baseball. He plays a premium defensive position, and is very questionable there. He has not yet demonstrated that he has a good knowledge of the strike zone, striking out way too frequently, and not walking nearly enough. If he ends up having to be moved to CF, his offense would not play nearly as well there. There might be a reason that he is the 12TH ranked SS prospect, by MLB.com. If he has to move to CF, Jacob May is probably near his offensive equal, and a better defensive centerfielder than Anderson. I know that May finished with far less stellar numbers than Anderson, but I followed both, during the season, and until Jacob's concussion, he was running neck and neck with Tim, in several offensive categories. Edited January 8, 2016 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 02:24 PM) Providing that there is a reasonable expectation that he would be able to hit outside of Colorado, he would be a very desirable option. He fits the 2 year window, is not unaffordable, left handed power bat, with high OBP and a right fielder. I'd give up Anderson for him, but then I don't value Anderson as much as most on this board do. To me, Anderson is one of those "toolsy" athletes, who has yet to establish that he is all that good at baseball. He plays a premium defensive position, and is very questionable there. He has not yet demonstrated that he has a good knowledge of the strike zone, striking out way too frequently, and not walking nearly enough. If he ends up having to be moved to CF, his offense would not play nearly as well there. There might be a reason that he is the 12TH ranked SS prospect, by MLB.com. If he has to move to CF, Jacob May is probably near his offensive equal, and a better defensive centerfielder than Anderson. I know that May finished with far less stellar numbers than Anderson, but I followed both, during the season, and until Jacob's concussion, he was running neck and neck with Tim, in several offensive categories. Often injured and huge home and away splits his entire career. Last year he was .243/.294/.464 on the road. His road OPS for his career is over 200 points less than it is at home. If you don't like Cespedes' OBP, you aren't going to like GarGo's. No reason to give up top prospects for him when alternatives cost just money. If they want Anderson or Fulmer or Q, just hang up the phone. They are going nowhere anyway. Edited January 8, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) Often injured and huge home and away splits his entire career. Last year he was .243/.294/.464 on the road. If you don't like Cespedes' OBP, you aren't going to like GarGo's. No reason to give up top prospects for him when alternatives cost just money. Yes, I have seen the split stats. I always wonder how much of that is related to the physical location, and how much is a function of playing in front of the home crowd. That's why I qualified my remarks. If he were not going to approach his career numbers, at home in Colorado, then I agree with you. In fact, I wouldn't want to give up any of the Sox' top half dozen prospects, and spend that much money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (glangon @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 02:23 PM) Cargo for La Roche and Adams. We get Cargo, get salary relief on La Roche, they get a good prospect in Adams and we free up some money to get Fister or Lexi. Sox would probably have to include some $$ to help offset Laroche imo. I'd rather not free up money to spend on Lexi or Fister; I think I'd rather go with Saladino and use the money on a better RHP option than Fister if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I think I'd rather give up a pick to get Fowler than give up any of Fulmer/Anderson/Adams. If they can snag him in a deal that doesn't include any of those guys, then maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 From a fangraphs chat: 12:33 Tom: Matt Adams and Marco Gonzales enough for Cargo to the Cards? 12:34 Dave Cameron: Should be, yes. CarGo’s not that valuable a trade chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I am not enthused by this news. Don't get me wrong, I would be very excited if we acquired him, but why would we give up top prospects to acquire him rather than just signing Cespedes/Upton? Money. Cargo is signed to a 2/37 million dollar deal and we would need to go far beyond that to land Upton/Cespedes. It just seems cheap to me to voluntarily give up young talent when equal or greater options are available in free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy esposito Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) I am not enthused by this news. Don't get me wrong, I would be very excited if we acquired him, but why would we give up top prospects to acquire him rather than just signing Cespedes/Upton? Money. Cargo is signed to a 2/37 million dollar deal and we would need to go far beyond that to land Upton/Cespedes. It just seems cheap to me to voluntarily give up young talent when equal or greater options are available in free agency. The 18 and 1/2 million a year for someone who is not known to perform well outside of mile high. No prospects and 18 million cash coming back to the sox . How many times can the sox make the same mistake and still expect different results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (sammy esposito @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 03:30 PM) The 18 and 1/2 million a year for someone who is not known to perform well outside of mile high. No prospects and 18 million cash coming back to the sox . How many times can the sox make the same mistake and still expect different results. The Sox traded for a high profile Colorado OF in the past that failed? News to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 04:12 PM) I am not enthused by this news. Don't get me wrong, I would be very excited if we acquired him, but why would we give up top prospects to acquire him rather than just signing Cespedes/Upton? Money. Cargo is signed to a 2/37 million dollar deal and we would need to go far beyond that to land Upton/Cespedes. It just seems cheap to me to voluntarily give up young talent when equal or greater options are available in free agency. We won't trade top prospects for CarGo. It'll be like Adam Engel and Jace Fry or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 01:46 PM) We won't trade top prospects for CarGo. It'll be like Adam Engel and Jace Fry or something. The middle of their system is already depleted. At this point, trading for a guy like CarGo makes little sense. Buck up, sign a FA & move the hell on. If they aren't willing to do that, sign a 2nd tier guy or get off the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Ok guys, I'm going to suggest some moves that will take this team from mediocirty to world series bound. You trade LaRoche and Anderson (or fulmer) for Gonzalez You sign Cespedes And boom, that'll do ya in. Now we just need to look at SP and maybe Alexi @ SS (if hes interested). Try to get crafty to find one more serviceable arm and your in the playoffs and probably world series bound against those cubbies. Once your in the series against the cubbies, you bury them in 4 games and white sox are on top of the world because of my moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coco1997 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 04:16 PM) Ok guys, I'm going to suggest some moves that will take this team from mediocirty to world series bound. You trade LaRoche and Anderson (or fulmer) for Gonzalez You sign Cespedes And boom, that'll do ya in. Now we just need to look at SP and maybe Alexi @ SS (if hes interested). Try to get crafty to find one more serviceable arm and your in the playoffs and probably world series bound against those cubbies. Once your in the series against the cubbies, you bury them in 4 games and white sox are on top of the world because of my moves. What if you expanded the package to get back both CarGo and Reyes from the Rockies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (coco1997 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 04:40 PM) What if you expanded the package to get back both CarGo and Reyes from the Rockies? If we took on Reyes, the Rockies would probably give us CarGo for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) These moves except Reyes sound great but there has to be a payroll amount they won't exceed prior to the season. Dumping top prospects to get rid of LaRoche isn't preferable. We did something similar before to offload Teahen, sacrificing an asset that could have brought a quality return in Edwin Jackson at that time. Except Tim has even more value by far. If Anderson achieves his potential, you're losing 15-25 affordable future war at a key position just to save money this year, and Colorado would have no use for Adam anyway. Edited January 8, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 What if you expanded the package to get back both CarGo and Reyes from the Rockies? You bring up a fantastic point that I overlooked. Throw in Reyes to the deal, now we don't even need to sign Alexi. I think you could be my VP if we were in business together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 A few questions. 1) why in the hell would Colorado want LaRoche? 2) why in the hell would the Sox want a declining Reyes, his 22M annual salary through '17 and his domestic violence nonsense? 3) with so many outfielders on the market, why the hell would the Sox give up one of Anderson/Fulmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Why would anyone want Jose Reyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 05:02 PM) Why would anyone want Jose Reyes? Glad I'm not the only asking that question. I'm all for playing fantasy arm-chair GM but come on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Nobody wants Adam LaRoche. Nobody wants Jose Reyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 1. They wouldn't, but they'd take him if it meant getting back a very high quality prospect like Anderson. 2. A declining Reyes is still leagues a head of the trash put out by most teams at SS. His salary is a bit high, not sure how to work with that. Domestic violence issue is a non-factor here. We are going for it all. 3. You'd be going for it with Gonzalez, Cespedes, Reyes. Uh, Yeah babyyy. 3b Frazier SS Reyes 2b Lawrie 1b Abreu C who cares OF Gonzalez, Cespedes, Eaton DH Whoevers left Hell yeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 05:09 PM) 2. A declining Reyes is still leagues a head of the trash put out by most teams at SS. His salary is a bit high, not sure how to work with that. Domestic violence issue is a non-factor here. We are going for it all. I strongly disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Also, where are people getting the idea that we may get both Cespedes and Gonzalez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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