Panerista Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 20, 2016 -> 06:09 PM) Beasley v. Rose was hotly contested. Just like Oden v. Durant was. There was luck, but they still had a call to make. Ok, let's list the non-Rose players. Ben Gordon Luol Deng Kirk Hinrich Joakim Noah Taj Gibson Jimmy Butler Niko Mirotic Pau Gasol You don't just accidentally acquire that much talent. And Thibs refused to hire an offensive assistant and Jimmy Butler was among 3 starters that wanted Thibs gone. Add to that, this is the BEST talent you can get when your team continues to win games. The Bulls have been so competitive for so long, they are rarely in the draft lottery. You don't get the next phenom on your squad without being bad or being lucky in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Fire GarPax. Why didn't they trade their assets to draft Curry, Thompson and Green????? UGH. Such failures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jan 20, 2016 -> 05:40 PM) The FO lucked into Rose. No one can dispute that. So take away his awards to be honest. As far as the other awards, you've named multiple ones for the same players. And again, none of those players were as good if not better before or after thibs. If the Bulls "lucked into" Rose, GS lucked into Curry and Green, while the Spurs had the greatest luck of all for Duncan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzfest Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 20, 2016 -> 08:03 PM) If the Bulls "lucked into" Rose, GS lucked into Curry and Green, while the Spurs had the greatest luck of all for Duncan. Theres a difference between a #1 overall pick; and a #7 overall pick (MIN took 2 PGs ahead of Curry), and Draymond (Who Thibs wanted) was selected in the 20's after GarPax fave marquis teague. You can make an argument that it was lucky that no one took curry ahead of the Warriors, but it was not lucky they drafted draymond so late. That was good drafting. Just like it was great drafting by the bulls to get jimmy. I credit the bulls for late drafting. that is all though. they don't do anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (ozzfest @ Jan 20, 2016 -> 10:31 PM) Theres a difference between a #1 overall pick; and a #7 overall pick (MIN took 2 PGs ahead of Curry), and Draymond (Who Thibs wanted) was selected in the 20's after GarPax fave marquis teague. You can make an argument that it was lucky that no one took curry ahead of the Warriors, but it was not lucky they drafted draymond so late. That was good drafting. Just like it was great drafting by the bulls to get jimmy. I credit the bulls for late drafting. that is all though. they don't do anything else So the Spurs and Cavs were lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 07:03 AM) So the Spurs and Cavs were lucky. The Cavs are lucky the best player in the world (at the time) was from Akron. The crazy thing is, he might not ever win one in Cleveland. The Spurs were terrible at just the right time to draft Tim Duncan, who was the true king of the Kobe era. They're also fortunate Aldridge had no interest in playing anywhere except San Antonio. All the great teams get lucky. The best you can really do with no luck is maybe one championship season or the Bulls. Edited January 21, 2016 by AustinIllini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzfest Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I hope you all listened to Spiegel and Goff today talk about GarPax. Edited January 22, 2016 by ozzfest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzfest Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Pax's GM Tenure - April 14, 2003 - May 21, 2009 12/1/2003 - Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall, and Lonny Baxter for Antonio Davis, Jerome “Junk Yard Dog” Williams, and Chris Jefferies 12/16/2003 - Roger Mason Jr. for Rick Brunson 6/24/2004 - 2005 1st(#21 - Nate Robinson), 2004 2nd(31st overall), and cash for #7(Luol Deng) 8/5/2004 - Jamal Crawford(S&T) and Jerome Williams for Dikembe Mutombo, Othello Harrington, Frank Williams, and Cezary Trybankski 9/8/2004 - Dikembe Mutombo for Eric Piatkowski, Adrian Griffin, and Mike Wilks 10/4/2005 - Eddy Curry(S&T) and Antonio Davis for Mike Sweetney, Tim Thomas, Jermaine Jackson, 2006 1st round pick swap(LaMarcus Aldridge), 2017 1st(Joakim Noah) 6/28/2006 - #2(LaMarcus Aldridge) and future 2nd for #4(Tyrus Thomas) and Viktor Khryapa 7/14/2006 - Tyson Chandler for P.J. Brown and J.R. Smith 7/20/2006 - J.R. Smith for Howard Eisley and two 2007 2nds 8/18/2006 - Eddie Basden for Martynas Andriuskevicius 2/21/2008 - Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Adrian Griffin, and 2009 2nd for Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Shannon Brown, and Cedric Simmons 2/18/2009 - Andres Nocioni, Drew Gooden, Cedric Simmons, and Michael Ruffin for Brad Miller and John Salmons 2/19/2009 - Larry Hughes for Tim Thomas, Jerome James, and Anthony Roberson 2/19/2009 - Thabo Sefolosha for 2009 1st(Taj Gibson) Gar's GM Tenure - May 21, 2009 - Present 1/25/2010 - Aaron Gray for Devin Brown 2/18/2010 - John Salmons, 2011 2nd, and 2012 2nd for Hakim Warrick and Joe Alexander 2/18/2010 - Tyrus Thomas for Flip Murray, Acie Law, and a future first(the Charlotte pick) 6/24/2010 - Kirk Hinrich, 2010 #17(Kevin Seraphin), and cash for Vladimir Veremeenko and a TPE 7/9/2010 - Hakim Warrick(S&T) for Phoenix 2011 2nd 7/22/2010 - future 2nd for C.J. Watson 2/22/2011 - James Johnson for Miami(via Toronto) 2011 1st(Norris Cole) 6/24/2011 - Norris Cole, 2nd round pick #43(Malcolm Lee), and cash for #23(Nikola Mirotic) 7/16/2012 - Kyle Korver for a 5M TPE and cash 1/7/2014 - Luol Deng for Andrew Bynum, conditional 2014 Sacramento 1st, 2015 1st round pick swap option with Cleveland, and 2015 and 2016 Portland 2nds 1/21/2014 - Marquis Teague for Tornike Shengelia 6/26/2014 - 2014 #16(Jusuf Nurkic), 2014 #19(Gary Harris), and 2015 2nd for 2014 #11(Doug McDermott) and Anthony Randolph 7/14/2014 - Anthony Randolph and two future 2nds for…it’s not clear 7/14/2014 - Greg Smith for…it’s not clear 5). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (ozzfest @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:09 AM) I hope you all listened to Spiegel and Goff today talk about GarPax. There is your first problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 08:14 AM) There is your first problem. To be fair, they had Cowley on and he's been spot in with his bulls reporting. Only guy who won't sugarcoat it. He mentioned Noah's knee being way more jacked up than the FO wanted you to believe when no one else would report it as an example. Either which way, he said Gar isn't on great standing and that he's trying to create relationships with other organizations. People in the organization feel he's a jackass too. There's been rumors about that before from players. Come to think of it, Paxsons demise really came at the behest of Gar's intro to power. Aldridge was a Paxson guy but Gar convinced Paxson to get Tyrus instead. Once Gar became GM, Pax really stopped making trades that improved the squad. Mostly its been dumping guys past their prime. Gar made the decision to let go of Ron Adams in a power play with Thibs. He's the one who chose Teague over Draymond which was Adams and Thibs choice. That led to Adams questioning Gar's draft analysis. He's also the one that block Thibs from hiring his choice for strength and conditioning coach who the Spurs hired once the Bulls passed. It would fit Paul Shirley's narrative for sure from years back. He's basically an asshole who has no regard for people and he gets promoted due to sweet talking his way up, not really earning his way on paper. Lastly, I'll leave you with this thought, Gar picked Snell, traded away assets for McDermott and picked Fred Hoiberg - all guys who have ties to New Mexico and Iowa State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:46 AM) To be fair, they had Cowley on and he's been spot in with his bulls reporting. Only guy who won't sugarcoat it. He mentioned Noah's knee being way more jacked up than the FO wanted you to believe when no one else would report it as an example. Either which way, he said Gar isn't on great standing and that he's trying to create relationships with other organizations. People in the organization feel he's a jackass too. There's been rumors about that before from players. Come to think of it, Paxsons demise really came at the behest of Gar's intro to power. Aldridge was a Paxson guy but Gar convinced Paxson to get Tyrus instead. Once Gar became GM, Pax really stopped making trades that improved the squad. Mostly its been dumping guys past their prime. Gar made the decision to let go of Ron Adams in a power play with Thibs. He's the one who chose Teague over Draymond which was Adams and Thibs choice. That led to Adams questioning Gar's draft analysis. He's also the one that block Thibs from hiring his choice for strength and conditioning coach who the Spurs hired once the Bulls passed. It would fit Paul Shirley's narrative for sure from years back. He's basically an asshole who has no regard for people and he gets promoted due to sweet talking his way up, not really earning his way on paper. Lastly, I'll leave you with this thought, Gar picked Snell, traded away assets for McDermott and picked Fred Hoiberg - all guys who have ties to New Mexico and Iowa State. You're doubling down on terrible sources here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:50 PM) You're doubling down on terrible sources here... He seems like a racist and misogynistic person, but there's a reason why he has a job and its been because he actually reports things. He hasn't been wrong in any of the info he's reported on the Bulls that I can think of. Maybe you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:04 PM) He seems like a racist and misogynistic person, but there's a reason why he has a job and its been because he actually reports things. He hasn't been wrong in any of the info he's reported on the Bulls that I can think of. Maybe you can. He's Jay Marriotti 2.0. And i'm pretty certain he wasn't very good with Sox info when he was covering them. Getting outsourced by nerdy internet message board posters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) He's Jay Marriotti 2.0. And i'm pretty certain he wasn't very good with Sox info when he was covering them. Getting outsourced by nerdy internet message board posters... I understand he wasn't good with the Sox towards the end as he let personal vendettas affect his reporting. But this will be the last time I repeat this: He's been very accurate on his Bulls reporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:18 PM) I understand he wasn't good with the Sox towards the end as he let personal vendettas affect his reporting. But this will be the last time I repeat this: He's been very accurate on his Bulls reporting. How's his accuracy been with his Bulls reporting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:21 PM) How's his accuracy been with his Bulls reporting? He's been very accurate but he's an asshole so people don't listen to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:32 PM) He's been very accurate but he's an asshole so people don't listen to him he also slid right back into the "Me vs the Front office and JR" role. Its really hard to listen to/read him without hearing his axe grinding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:40 PM) he also slid right back into the "Me vs the Front office and JR" role. Its really hard to listen to/read him without hearing his axe grinding Absolutely. He makes good, accurate points but they don't get taken seriously because he clearly has an axe to grind with management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:40 PM) he also slid right back into the "Me vs the Front office and JR" role. Its really hard to listen to/read him without hearing his axe grinding That was why I quit caring when Joe Cowley was talking. It was impossible to tell what was actual information, what was being fed to him, and what was his opinion. He used it all interchangeably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 20, 2016 -> 04:06 PM) A) They've got an A+: Fantastic drafters, arguably the best. I dunno. Hitting in the 20s doesn't make up for missing earlier... doug mcdermott rings a bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 02:13 PM) I dunno. Hitting in the 20s doesn't make up for missing earlier... doug mcdermott rings a bell. Doesn't it really though? If you drafted 5 players in the teens would you expect to get as much production as the Bulls are getting out of just Jimmy Butler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) I dunno. Hitting in the 20s doesn't make up for missing earlier... doug mcdermott rings a bell. He's got better stats than Korver (if you factor in the average minutes played) at the same point in his career. Are you really giving up on McDermott so soon? I think his progression has been just fine. He made a good jump from year 1 to 2. No reason to expect he can't continue that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzfest Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 All of you GarPax lovers, nice draft picks! Niko, Snell, McDermott! Great playing tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (ozzfest @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 08:17 PM) All of you GarPax lovers, nice draft picks! Niko, Snell, McDermott! Great playing tonight! Those are the types of picks you make when you're above average for so long. The Bulls would have to be awful to get a decent draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzfest Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 08:24 PM) Those are the types of picks you make when you're above average for so long. The Bulls would have to be awful to get a decent draft pick. I know like Draymond Green right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts