White Sox interested in SS Ian Desmond

[BlackSox13]

You all are a bit rough on poor Caufield.

Ouch! Actually,I'm fine with Caulfield and have enjoyed discussions with him plenty of times. Caulfield is known to take extended breaks here and there and since the Sox are rumored to have interest in Desmond, its seemed like the logical choice.

[GreenSox]

Signing Desmond would be ridiculous. He's nothing special, costs a high draft choice and salary. He would be adding a veteran for the sake of a veteran. If the Sox won't give young players a chance - and there's really only 1 position left - they'll never get anywhere.

They may not be able to avoid Fowler -they've come this far loading up with KW "proven veterans" - but, as a basically averageish ballplayer, he's not worth the price either.

 

Jackson's the best choice.

[Vance Law]

Its all about asset management, . If RH feels that a couple of years of Fowler, Desmond or Jackson is better than the pick you do it. Picks are more than likely not to produce an mlb player so if the contract is a good one they will do it.

 

And Jackson doesn't have a pick attached.

 

Desmond and Jackson or Fowler and Rollins. I don't know which I'd prefer. I guess the Fowler route is safer, the Desmond route more upside. Fowler's OBP would be a nice addition to the lineup. Hopefully they could get Desmond for 2 years plus a team option. He'd provide insurance against Anderson stalling out or struggling, plus injuries or poor performance from Lawrie or Frazier (the injury part)

 

 

To the people overly concerned about losing a draft pick, consider that this is the last season in the foreseeable future when signing a qualified-offer free agent won't result in losing our top draft pick.

[Y2Jimmy0]

And Jackson doesn't have a pick attached.

 

Desmond and Jackson or Fowler and Rollins. I don't know which I'd prefer. I guess the Fowler route is safer, the Desmond route more upside. Fowler's OBP would be a nice addition to the lineup. Hopefully they could get Desmond for 2 years plus a team option. He'd provide insurance against Anderson stalling out or struggling, plus injuries or poor performance from Lawrie or Frazier (the injury part)

 

 

To the people overly concerned about losing a draft pick, consider that this is the last season in the foreseeable future when signing a qualified-offer free agent won't result in losing our top draft pick.

 

 

I'd prefer Desmond and Jackson. Desmond is still good defensively and 2 years ago was good enough to turn down $100 million. He was probably the best SS in the NL behind Tulo. If he gives you power and defense at SS in the short-term, the White Sox would have a mighty thunderous infield. Then they could let him walk next year or the year after and get a pick back for him leaving.

[Bob Sacamano]

I know the CBA expires at the end of this year but wouldn't the old rules still apply through next offseason? I feel like any agreement dealing with free agent compensation would go into effect after the 2017 season.

Edited January 23, 2016 by soxfan2014

[Balta1701]

I'd prefer Desmond and Jackson. Desmond is still good defensively and 2 years ago was good enough to turn down $100 million. He was probably the best SS in the NL behind Tulo. If he gives you power and defense at SS in the short-term, the White Sox would have a mighty thunderous infield. Then they could let him walk next year or the year after and get a pick back for him leaving.

To point out again - the CBA is up again this offseason, and each of the last several times the CBA has been up they've made draft pick compensation harder to get. I think there's every reason to expect that again this year.

 

For a $100 million player, someone like Upton, teams still don't care about the draft pick. But for a guy like Desmond - if he's getting in the $15 million/year for a couple years range - the value of a late first round draft pick is something like $15-$20 million on average, so the value of the draft pick is comparable to what they're getting. Those are the guys that really shouldn't be causing a team to lose a draft pick and that's where they will probably weaken it this year.

[Balta1701]

I know the CBA expires at the end of this year but wouldn't the old rules still apply through next offseason? I feel like any agreement dealing with free agent compensation would go into effect after the 7 season.

I'd say it's almost certain that the same rules will apply next offseason and that any overhaul will be in 2018. The agreement expires at the end of November so those decisions will already have happened before the new CBA starts.

[CyAcosta41]

Picks are more than likely not to produce an mlb player so if the contract is a good one they will do it.

 

EXACTLY. Sin duda, dude.

 

Having a draft pick in a particular year is indeed an asset. It's currency.

 

If you're a team that excels in selecting players, then that currency has a certain value. If you look in your team mirror and you arguably, well, blow at drafting OTHER than picking some obvious studs at the top of a draft (where you hope not to be anyway), then that currency has a different value.

 

If taking on the right FA costs you a relatively high draft pick -- in a year when that was an additional pick anyway and you still have a high #1 and #2 -- then you do it when you're loading for the next two years anyway. The FA you get (or a combo of FAs if you go Desmond/Jackson) are guaranteed big leaguers, albeit with risks attached to both. That high 20s draft pick you give up has no such guarantee. Frankly, not even close.

 

And anticipating the counter arguments ...

YES, you surely don't want to do this year after year. Do it every year like this and you've taken your chances to ever develop a strong and deep farm system from slim to none. I'm talking THIS YEAR ... THESE circumstances ... because we've already committed to going for it for the next two years

 

 

[ChiSox59]

To point out again - the CBA is up again this offseason, and each of the last several times the CBA has been up they've made draft pick compensation harder to get. I think there's every reason to expect that again this year.

 

For a $100 million player, someone like Upton, teams still don't care about the draft pick. But for a guy like Desmond - if he's getting in the $15 million/year for a couple years range - the value of a late first round draft pick is something like $15-$20 million on average, so the value of the draft pick is comparable to what they're getting. Those are the guys that really shouldn't be causing a team to lose a draft pick and that's where they will probably weaken it this year.

 

How did you value a late 1st round pick at $15-$20M?

[Lillian]

There are two big remaining holes on this roster:

1) One good defensive outfielder, for CF or RF, who is at least an average hitter.

2) A respectable OBP, power bat, preferably left handed to bat between Abreu and Frazier. If he hits RHP exceptionally well, it would be acceptable if he were right handed

 

I continue to think that SS is not a hole, as Saladino is a good defender with good speed, and some modest offensive potential. That should be adequate, if the other 2 holes are filled. Frazier at 3RD, Lawrie at 2ND & Abreu at 1ST provide enough potential offense for the infield. Defense at SS is more important.

 

Austin Jackson is my favorite remaining Free Agent, without the loss of a draft pick, for the outfield.

That leaves the middle of the order left handed bat. I wish someone could provide hope that La Roche would not be a total black hole again, in that spot.

However, I doubt that anyone can make a credible argument for that.

 

Who is out there, who might fill that hole, in a trade, or free agent acquisition? The only open spot is DH, if they sign Jackson.

I'd still like to have Ethier, if trading for him didn't cost much in talent. At his age, he would be fine as a DH, or a corner outfielder, with Melky moving to DH.

Andre isn't of much use vs LHP, but he is a solid professional hitter vs RHP.

[ptatc]

EXACTLY. Sin duda, dude.

 

Having a draft pick in a particular year is indeed an asset. It's currency.

 

If you're a team that excels in selecting players, then that currency has a certain value. If you look in your team mirror and you arguably, well, blow at drafting OTHER than picking some obvious studs at the top of a draft (where you hope not to be anyway), then that currency has a different value.

 

If taking on the right FA costs you a relatively high draft pick -- in a year when that was an additional pick anyway and you still have a high #1 and #2 -- then you do it when you're loading for the next two years anyway. The FA you get (or a combo of FAs if you go Desmond/Jackson) are guaranteed big leaguers, albeit with risks attached to both. That high 20s draft pick you give up has no such guarantee. Frankly, not even close.

 

And anticipating the counter arguments ...

YES, you surely don't want to do this year after year. Do it every year like this and you've taken your chances to ever develop a strong and deep farm system from slim to none. I'm talking THIS YEAR ... THESE circumstances ... because we've already committed to going for it for the next two years

This is where we disagree. I don't think there is a commitment to go for it for two years. I know I'm mostly alone in this but just because they've traded for a player that has 2 years on his deal doesn't mean that is the end of it. Sale and Abreu are under contract for 4. The sox have control of rodon for 5. It doesn't have to end at 2. If the deal makes sense, do it but if it limits the team too much, don't.

[ptatc]

There are two big remaining holes on this roster:

1) One good defensive outfielder, for CF or RF, who is at least an average hitter.

2) A respectable OBP, power bat, preferably left handed to bat between Abreu and Frazier. If he hits RHP exceptionally well, it would be acceptable if he were right handed

 

I continue to think that SS is not a hole, as Saladino is a good defender with good speed, and some modest offensive potential. That should be adequate, if the other 2 holes are filled. Frazier at 3RD, Lawrie at 2ND & Abreu at 1ST provide enough potential offense for the infield. Defense at SS is more important.

 

Austin Jackson is my favorite remaining Free Agent, without the loss of a draft pick, for the outfield.

That leaves the middle of the order left handed bat. I wish someone could provide hope that La Roche would not be a total black hole again, in that spot.

However, I doubt that anyone can make a credible argument for that.

 

Who is out there, who might fill that hole, in a trade, or free agent acquisition? The only open spot is DH, if they sign Jackson.

I'd still like to have Ethier, if trading for him didn't cost much in talent. At his age, he would be fine as a DH, or a corner outfielder, with Melky moving to DH.

Andre isn't of much use vs LHP, but he is a solid professional hitter vs RHP.

I don't think they will start Laroche on the bench at the beginning of season. I think they will give him a chance to prove himself. If he doesn't do well, I see them trying to add a bat early in the season through a trade. I think the only move the sox will do is one bat mostly likely the OF but Desmond is still a possibility.

[Saufley]

There are two big remaining holes on this roster:

1) One good defensive outfielder, for CF or RF, who is at least an average hitter.

2) A respectable OBP, power bat, preferably left handed to bat between Abreu and Frazier. If he hits RHP exceptionally well, it would be acceptable if he were right handed

 

I continue to think that SS is not a hole, as Saladino is a good defender with good speed, and some modest offensive potential. That should be adequate, if the other 2 holes are filled. Frazier at 3RD, Lawrie at 2ND & Abreu at 1ST provide enough potential offense for the infield. Defense at SS is more important.

 

Austin Jackson is my favorite remaining Free Agent, without the loss of a draft pick, for the outfield.

That leaves the middle of the order left handed bat. I wish someone could provide hope that La Roche would not be a total black hole again, in that spot.

However, I doubt that anyone can make a credible argument for that.

 

Who is out there, who might fill that hole, in a trade, or free agent acquisition? The only open spot is DH, if they sign Jackson.

I'd still like to have Ethier, if trading for him didn't cost much in talent. At his age, he would be fine as a DH, or a corner outfielder, with Melky moving to DH.

Andre isn't of much use vs LHP, but he is a solid professional hitter vs RHP.

 

2016 Ethier salary is $18 mil, 2017 is $17.5 mil, 2018 is $17.5 with a $2.5 mil buyout.

Edited January 23, 2016 by KyYlE23

[Balta1701]

This is where we disagree. I don't think there is a commitment to go for it for two years. I know I'm mostly alone in this but just because they've traded for a player that has 2 years on his deal doesn't mean that is the end of it. Sale and Abreu are under contract for 4. The sox have control of rodon for 5. It doesn't have to end at 2. If the deal makes sense, do it but if it limits the team too much, don't.

The problem remains; with as little high level talent in the system as the White Sox have, in no small part because of the trades the last 2 offseasons, the White Sox will struggle to tread water when those guys leave in 2 years. They will have to either take a substantial step back in 2018 at those spots by playing rookies there that were pushed aggressively to the big leagues, or they will have to trade the little bits they are able to develop for veterans to continue treading water.

 

And that sets them up with the same problem as last year and this year - a weak roster, not well stocked enough to compete unless "Everything" goes right, and not enough resources to hang with the well-built teams. That's the road to Sale and Abreu then leaving.

[ChiSox59]

The problem remains; with as little high level talent in the system as the White Sox have, in no small part because of the trades the last 2 offseasons, the White Sox will struggle to tread water when those guys leave in 2 years. They will have to either take a substantial step back in 2018 at those spots by playing rookies there that were pushed aggressively to the big leagues, or they will have to trade the little bits they are able to develop for veterans to continue treading water.

 

And that sets them up with the same problem as last year and this year - a weak roster, not well stocked enough to compete unless "Everything" goes right, and not enough resources to hang with the well-built teams. That's the road to Sale and Abreu then leaving.

 

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to expect Trey to be the 3B, Anderson the SS and one of Sanchez or Saladino to be the 2B come 2018. No one we've traded the past two season besides Semien would have been of any use in the infield. Micah perhaps, but his D will never be good enough to be an MLB regular.

[ptatc]

The problem remains; with as little high level talent in the system as the White Sox have, in no small part because of the trades the last 2 offseasons, the White Sox will struggle to tread water when those guys leave in 2 years. They will have to either take a substantial step back in 2018 at those spots by playing rookies there that were pushed aggressively to the big leagues, or they will have to trade the little bits they are able to develop for veterans to continue treading water.

 

And that sets them up with the same problem as last year and this year - a weak roster, not well stocked enough to compete unless "Everything" goes right, and not enough resources to hang with the well-built teams. That's the road to Sale and Abreu then leaving.

I don't think the recent trades impacted high level talent. I think they traded pieces but nothing high level. They kept the possible impact players. These are the pieces that will make or break the team. Johnson, Bassit, Thompson et al, were not going to take this team anywhere. Anderson, Fulmer may. As the other develop they will know more. If they look like impact players they will be on the right track, if not then it is going to take longer. With the limited budget, they need to grow the impact players. Then use FA to fill in pieces.

[Balta1701]

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to expect Trey to be the 3B, Anderson the SS and one of Sanchez or Saladino to be the 2B come 2018. No one we've traded the past two season besides Semien would have been of any use in the infield. Micah perhaps, but his D will never be good enough to be an MLB regular.

And if you're expecting Trey, a guy who has put up a .720 OPS in his minor league career so far, to be coming up in 2 years and making a major contribution as a big league starter at a young age 23...you've got a major lineup hole.

 

At which point, you're going to have to find some additional help to make up for that weakness. So you're going to have to make another trade and strengthen elsewhere.

 

The only guy out of that list that I'd say has some ability to be an offensive contributor by 2018 is Anderson...but he's also raw enough that I don't know how much time he'll need to adapt to the bigs.

 

Leaving us with the same setup as right now - treading water. Always having some serious lineup and roster weaknesses, always low on depth, and not able to compete with franchises that build more complete rosters, unless "Everything goes right".

[Vance Law]

Leaving us with the same setup as right now - treading water. Always having some serious lineup and roster weaknesses, always low on depth, and not able to compete with franchises that build more complete rosters, unless "Everything goes right".

 

Alcides Escobar, Alex Rios, Omar Infante.

[hi8is]

Alex Rios

I just threw up into my pants.

[LDF]

Signing Desmond would be ridiculous. He's nothing special, costs a high draft choice and salary. He would be adding a veteran for the sake of a veteran. If the Sox won't give young players a chance - and there's really only 1 position left - they'll never get anywhere.

They may not be able to avoid Fowler -they've come this far loading up with KW "proven veterans" - but, as a basically averageish ballplayer, he's not worth the price either.

 

Jackson's the best choice.

nice post

and

EXACTLY. Sin duda, dude.

 

Having a draft pick in a particular year is indeed an asset. It's currency.

 

If you're a team that excels in selecting players, then that currency has a certain value. If you look in your team mirror and you arguably, well, blow at drafting OTHER than picking some obvious studs at the top of a draft (where you hope not to be anyway), then that currency has a different value.

 

If taking on the right FA costs you a relatively high draft pick -- in a year when that was an additional pick anyway and you still have a high #1 and #2 -- then you do it when you're loading for the next two years anyway. The FA you get (or a combo of FAs if you go Desmond/Jackson) are guaranteed big leaguers, albeit with risks attached to both. That high 20s draft pick you give up has no such guarantee. Frankly, not even close.

 

And anticipating the counter arguments ...

YES, you surely don't want to do this year after year. Do it every year like this and you've taken your chances to ever develop a strong and deep farm system from slim to none. I'm talking THIS YEAR ... THESE circumstances ... because we've already committed to going for it for the next two years

 

well these two post are being pointed out for various reasons.

 

the sox and the system are in a precarious situation and for this reason, they are trying to do 2 things simultaneously and it is not working, if they continue on this path they will fail at one while the other will be half way there. do not look at this as a fan but with both eyes open.

 

the sox does need to pick up a really good player-no pick cost and yes a player at a very important position, and if needed spend the harsh cost-a draft pick, all this was the fault of the main person, who i will mention later.

 

the sox also needs to invest in a low cost or a pitcher that will not cost 20 mil, maybe someone who will need to reestablish their value. the sox org will need to accept this fact and make the hard choices here.

 

the sox got really lucky with a great draft pick-sale, lucky on a trade or 2 with eaton and Q. they pulled a rabbit from a hat with Jose A. now last yr they made some key fa signings, and then stop. this yr, again some really key fa signing, and i hope they will continue.

 

now at the same time, the farm system.... well we all know about that, i will not dwell on it but they have done a great job the last 2-3 yrs.... with Rodon paying dividends by his performance last season. but the minor league is still a ways off to help supplement the parent team and even then some of those minors may stall.

 

so what is needed, the sox brass needs to find a balance of further make trades and more fa signings, even if it mean going into the red this coming season. the blame on this all falls on the owners and now it is the owners who will need to make some hard decisions, give the green light to Hahn and his people to go and find and scout potential fa's that can help, use a draft picks if necessary, do another great draft, and blow thru the int'l draft and get as many as they can ...... to load the systems with prospects. only then in the yrs to follow, the sox can pick and chose instead of having all their hopes rest on a particular player, and what if that player fails????

 

this will all correct itself in a yr or 2 ... but the rewards will be many.

Edited January 24, 2016 by LDF

[GGajewski18]

At this point, something still has to be done. If we are truly in this 3 year plan, Hahn and company need to at least upgrade another position this year. I believe there is great value in Ian Desmond now and maybe even CarGo.

 

I would sign Desmond and trade Avi and Adams for Cargo and 7 million cash.

 

 

[Lillian]

Just a reminder of Desmond's Career Inter League Stats, in 428 Plate Appearances:

 

AVG OBP SLG OPS

.220 .268 .379 .647

 

Not very impressive.

[2nd_city_saint787]

What's going on with Alexei Bell and Yadiel Hernandez? Will either be available before the season? Could be worth taking a look see.

[BlackSox13]

What's going on with Alexei Bell and Yadiel Hernandez? Will either be available before the season? Could be worth taking a look see.

He's got a showcase February 23rd and is waiting for the MLB to clear his FA status. Sounds as though he could be available just in time for ST.

[LDF]

He's got a showcase February 23rd and is waiting for the MLB to clear his FA status. Sounds as though he could be available just in time for ST.

 

does anyone know when is the deadline for int't players counting for next season int'l salary cap and / or this season cap???