White Sox interested in SS Ian Desmond

[caulfield12]

So they are a last place team, but if they sign Fowler or Desmond they are a contender?

 

LMAO.

 

You can say that about the Twins, Indians and Tigers, too.

 

That's how close things could be bunched.

 

If Verlander and Sanchez aren't very good or Norris has a setback with his health, the Tigers will have rotation issues all season long.

 

Right now, most have it KC, Detroit or Cleveland and then Minnesota/Chicago at the back end.

 

[CB2.0]

So they are a last place team, but if they sign Fowler or Desmond they are a contender?

 

LMAO.

 

To be fair, he doesn't say that....In fact, he says:

Adding those two players doesn't automatically make the White Sox contenders (they'd definitely need to do something at DH eventually), but they'd be a lot closer -- especially if Desmond bounces back.

 

Anyway, I do disagree with signing both Fowler and Desmond, but the sentiment behind making those moves is dead on right.

 

[caulfield12]

To be fair, he doesn't say that....In fact, he says:

 

 

Anyway, I do disagree with signing both Fowler and Desmond, but the sentiment behind making those moves is dead on right.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...very-incomplete

 

Last sentence...without any additions

[CB2.0]

What?

[hogan873]

I don't think there's any way the Sox would sign both Fowler and Desmond as both have QOs. I could see either Jackson and Desmond or just Fowler.

 

Desmond could be quite the signing if they were able to get him cheap (which seems fairly likely) and if he bounces back. Lot of ifs, of course, but I think he's he worth the gamble on a two year deal.

[southsider2k5]

Well, that much is true...the problem is the White Sox never seem to be able to face reality and force guys like Dunn and now LaRoche into straight platoon situations until it's way too late.

 

Otoh, for a long time, it seemed Melky would never get his average above .100 against LHP and he finally sputtered to life, but seeing as LaRoche only has one more season left (and probably less than that), it would behoove the White Sox to start looking at some realistic alternatives.

 

LaRoche PA's by month in 2015

 

May 112

June 93

July 88

August 78

Sept&Oct 36

[bear_brian]

I just don't see Desmond as a good answer for us. He is not good defensively, struggled offensively last year, and made $11M last year so is probably unwilling to take a giant salary hit even on a short-term deal. He reminds me in some respects of "Joe Love", and although we need offense, I do not think we can afford to have a poor defensive SS. Plus, he costs us a draft pick.

 

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

I just don't see Desmond as a good answer for us. He is not good defensively, struggled offensively last year, and made $11M last year so is probably unwilling to take a giant salary hit even on a short-term deal. He reminds me in some respects of "Joe Love", and although we need offense, I do not think we can afford to have a poor defensive SS. Plus, he costs us a draft pick.

 

 

He's not a bad defender.

[caulfield12]

Can someone please post the drs and uzr and range factor numbers for Desmond?

 

He was terrible offensively and defensively the first 2-3 months last year but it doesn't fit at all with his career numbers in those two areas.

 

Most of it has been attributed to the stress and pressure of rejecting a 7 year, $107 million contract extension.

 

Not to mention the Nationals have been better judges of offensive talent than the Sox, they can't be totally wrong about a player who spent his entire career there and is still just 30.

[Y2Jimmy0]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...very-incomplete

 

Last sentence...without any additions

 

 

I actually think the White Sox are division and wild card contenders without any more moves. The division isn't great and the AL as a whole is pretty meh. Other additions would help, but they improved 3 giant black holes and I think it's safe to assume some bounceback from their current guys. I don't understand the whole "they are 5th in the division talk". Any of the 5 teams in the Al Central could finish 1st or 5th in my opinion.

[bschmaranz]

DH Navarro or Saladino against lefties?

 

Why the heck would Saladino DH? His glove is his only redeemable trait.

[Dick Allen]

Can someone please post the drs and uzr and range factor numbers for Desmond?

 

He was terrible offensively and defensively the first 2-3 months last year but it doesn't fit at all with his career numbers in those two areas.

 

Most of it has been attributed to the stress and pressure of rejecting a 7 year, $107 million contract extension.

 

Not to mention the Nationals have been better judges of offensive talent than the Sox, they can't be totally wrong about a player who spent his entire career there and is still just 30.

Why don't you post them?

Desmond might be fine, but excuses, except for an injury don't work. Just because someone speculates about it on the internet doesn't make it true. If he couldn't handle turning down $107 million, maybe he shouldn't have turned down $107 million.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Dick Allen

[BlackSox13]

Can someone please post the drs and uzr and range factor numbers for Desmond?

 

He was terrible offensively and defensively the first 2-3 months last year but it doesn't fit at all with his career numbers in those two areas.

 

Most of it has been attributed to the stress and pressure of rejecting a 7 year, $107 million contract extension.

 

Not to mention the Nationals have been better judges of offensive talent than the Sox, they can't be totally wrong about a player who spent his entire career there and is still just 30.

Here's Desmond's 2015 numbers: DRS 1, UZR -3.7, RngR 4.5 according to fangraphs

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...amp;position=SS

 

BR has Desmond's RF/9 4.26 and RF/G 4.15

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/desmoia01.shtml

 

Interestingly enough Desmond had 18 fielding errors and 9 throwing errors in '15. I wonder if his extended range led to more errors since his range enabled him to get to more balls that would have been base hits for the average range SS.

[caulfield12]

Why don't you post them?

Desmond might be fine, but excuses, except for an injury don't work. Just because someone speculates about it on the internet doesn't make it true. If he couldn't handle turning down $107 million, maybe he shouldn't have turned down $107 million.

 

We made lots of them for Alexei and Dunn and numerous others throughout the years...

 

 

http://deadspin.com/ian-desmond-solves-the...scre-1711269609

 

And he made 8 errors in the first 15 games and played quite well after that...but those two weeks planted the idea in the minds of some fans he was a defensive liability.

 

If anything, you want to have guys like that with something to prove on your team...the old chip on the shoulder often works wonders.

 

Fowler won't have the same edge on the Sox that Jackson and Desmond would bring, trying to reestablish themselves and prove the doubters wrong.

Edited January 27, 2016 by caulfield12

[bear_brian]

Here's Desmond's 2015 numbers: DRS 1, UZR -3.7, RngR 4.5 according to fangraphs

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...amp;position=SS

 

BR has Desmond's RF/9 4.26 and RF/G 4.15

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/desmoia01.shtml

 

Interestingly enough Desmond had 18 fielding errors and 9 throwing errors in '15. I wonder if his extended range led to more errors since his range enabled him to get to more balls that would have been base hits for the average range SS.

 

Anyway you cut it, this guy made 27 errors last year and 24 the year before that. Alexei made 16 last year, just for comparison. He is not a reliable defender, and therefore not what we need to resolve our problem.

 

More and more I am beginning to believe that either Ethier or Jay Bruce is the best available OF answer, and we stick with Saladino at SS. And that is assuming that : a) we get the Dodgers to eat some money for Ethier; and b) we give up the likes of no more than a Guerrero or Phillips. We could keep Avi to platoon DH with LaRoche.

 

[Dick Allen]

We made lots of them for Alexei and Dunn and numerous others throughout the years...

 

 

http://deadspin.com/ian-desmond-solves-the...scre-1711269609

 

And he made 8 errors in the first 15 games and played quite well after that...but those two weeks planted the idea in the minds of some fans he was a defensive liability.

 

If anything, you want to have guys like that with something to prove on your team...the old chip on the shoulder often works wonders.

 

Fowler won't have the same edge on the Sox that Jackson and Desmond would bring, trying to reestablish themselves and prove the doubters wrong.

So you want a guy with something to prove, but a guy who also supposedly caved under the pressure of turning down $107 million. His defensive liability comes from the fact he makes a lot of bad plays, but apparently makes up for them as well. I think also people look at his offensive decline the last several seasons with an increased strikeout rate, and see a guy who if he came to the White Sox would be switching leagues, and the team hasn't had too much luck with that, at least initially. I advocated signing this guy back before the got Lawrie, and then Frazier. I thought he could move to 3B. But signing him has a couple of issues. First on a multi-year contract, if Anderson is the SS of the future and that starts next season, how would Desmond react to having to change positions for a rookie? Some guys don't go for that. And assuming Lawrie and Frazier work out, where would he play? The OF? He loses a lot of value there.

 

Both Desmond and Jackson were playing for a payday in 2015 probably with the supposed chip on their shoulder you seem to think is important. They both faceplanted. As a buy low, it could make some sense, but using the chip on their shoulder doesn't hold water because if it did, they wouldn't be in the situations they are in.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

So you want a guy with something to prove, but a guy who also supposedly caved under the pressure of turning down $107 million. His defensive liability comes from the fact he makes a lot of bad plays, but apparently makes up for them as well. I think also people look at his offensive decline the last several seasons with an increased strikeout rate, and see a guy who if he came to the White Sox would be switching leagues, and the team hasn't had too much luck with that, at least initially. I advocated signing this guy back before the got Lawrie, and then Frazier. I thought he could move to 3B. But signing him has a couple of issues. First on a multi-year contract, if Anderson is the SS of the future and that starts next season, how would Desmond react to having to change positions for a rookie? Some guys don't go for that. And assuming Lawrie and Frazier work out, where would he play? The OF? He loses a lot of value there.

 

Sure, but you're assuming Anderson and Lawrie won't have any setbacks AND he wouldn't be open at all to a Jose Valentin-esque career change.

 

If anything, showing that versatility and willingness to sacrifice over the next two seasons would make him even more valuable when he hit the 2017-18 free agent market.

 

He's also a consistent 20-20 threat, and how many middle infielders can you say that about?

 

As far as playing for a contract goes, I don't recall Jackson or Fowler were ever offered $107 million extensions before the season by the Mariners and Cubs only to turn them down...

Edited January 27, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Anyway you cut it, this guy made 27 errors last year and 24 the year before that. Alexei made 16 last year, just for comparison. He is not a reliable defender, and therefore not what we need to resolve our problem.

 

More and more I am beginning to believe that either Ethier or Jay Bruce is the best available OF answer, and we stick with Saladino at SS. And that is assuming that : a) we get the Dodgers to eat some money for Ethier; and b) we give up the likes of no more than a Guerrero or Phillips. We could keep Avi to platoon DH with LaRoche.

 

Please look at Bruce's actual numbers both offensively and defensively in recent years and forget about the brand name/reputation.

[bear_brian]

Please look at Bruce's actual numbers both offensively and defensively in recent years and forget about the brand name/reputation.

 

I've looked at his numbers and they are not pretty. But he hits home runs, runs the bases fairly well and is much better defensively than Avi. He is only 28, and maybe a change of scenery helps. We need power and defense on this team to go along with a good pitching staff. And the choices are dwindling ...

 

[Dick Allen]

Please look at Bruce's actual numbers both offensively and defensively in recent years and forget about the brand name/reputation.

.226/.294/.434 145 strikeouts. Jay Bruce's numbers, and I agree, the Sox should stay away.

 

Yet on the other hand you seem to ignore Ian Desmond's numbers

 

.233/.290/.384 187 strikeouts

 

I know he plays SS, but you have touted him as a possible OF as well.

 

 

The biggest concern about Desmond is 3 years in a row his batting average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage dropped, and his strikeouts rose. Is it not a desirable pattern.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Baron]

I dont agree with the article on the last place finish but the overall point still stands. It's been an unacceptable offseason so far.

[Dick Allen]

I dont agree with the article on the last place finish but the overall point still stands. It's been an unacceptable offseason so far.

If they are going to call it an offseason, I agree. But I don't think that is the case.

[Baron]

If they are going to call it an offseason, I agree. But I don't think that is the case.

 

 

I dont know if it is DA. I just have a sinking feeling that this is it. Maybe they dont want to give up a pick for Fowler or Desmond. Maybe Jackson is asking for too much money. Maybe they still have alot of faith in Garcia and they were only willing to move on from him if they got one of the big 3. All those scenarios have been running through my head. But I think the last one I mentioned is pretty likely.

[OmarComing25]

From yesterday's Fangraphs After Dark Chat:

 

Billy from CO: What should I expect from Ian Desmond this year? Is all hope lost with him, or is there a reasonable chance he can be a top 10 dynasty SS for the next few years?

9:03

Paul Swydan: Somewhere in the middle probably. I’m not banking on him to be top 10, but that says as much about the new blood as it does Desmond.

9:03

Jeff Zimmerman: If you look, seven of the past eight-half seasons have been the same (good), just this year’s first half was bad. I think some team will get a bargain on him.

[BlackSox13]

Anyway you cut it, this guy made 27 errors last year and 24 the year before that. Alexei made 16 last year, just for comparison. He is not a reliable defender, and therefore not what we need to resolve our problem.

 

More and more I am beginning to believe that either Ethier or Jay Bruce is the best available OF answer, and we stick with Saladino at SS. And that is assuming that : a) we get the Dodgers to eat some money for Ethier; and b) we give up the likes of no more than a Guerrero or Phillips. We could keep Avi to platoon DH with LaRoche.

You kind of make my point by bringing Alexei into the discussion. Alexei's RngR and UZR are considerably worse than Desmond's so less errors are going to happen when a player cannot get to as many balls in play. Desmond had 9 throwing errors last season and Alexei had 10. I think Desmond's capability of getting to more balls in play than Alexei led to some additional errors made by Desmond, at least to some extent.

 

I'm not saying Desmond is a good SS but I'm not saying he is bad either. His defensive numbers are just plain weird to me.

 

I'm definitely up for the idea of Ethier since upgrading the OF is a bigger necessity than SS. Jay Bruce on the other hand comes with the same question marks as Desmond so I can't see how someone would be against Desmond and yet be fine with Bruce. Bruce took a few steps back last year defensively, much like Desmond.