White Sox interested in SS Ian Desmond

[Dick Allen]

No, I didn't. Desmond #2 ?? How can that be when you have Correa of Houston, Crawford of SF, Seager of LA, Tulo of Toronto, Russell of Cubs, Espinoza of KC, Whatshisname in Boston? and others

Crawford, Boegarts, Lindor, Correa..., that #2 in baseball is just another thing Caulfield made up.if teams actually thought that, he wouldn't be out there right now.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Dick Allen

[BlackSox13]

I frankly haven't read anything at all about Sox and Jackson.

 

 

Have you read about Jackson and anybody? I read some speculation but no actual talks. Considering Boras got Kennedy $70 million, I would think Jackson's price is still quite high right now.

The only things I've read were sports writer's writing a blurb about their local team and how Jackson could be a fit for their OF opening or adding him as a potential depth piece. Teams like Texas, Baltimore, Cleveland, cubs, Twinkies etc. Nothing that has any substance though, just a sports writer's take.

 

Fowler and Desmond has had some seemingly genuine speculation but absolutely nothing has been rumored about Jackson. Heck, even Alvarez has had more speculation here lately.

 

This has been a very strange off season.

Edited February 15, 2016 by BlackSox13

[Dick Allen]

The only things I've read were sports writer's writing a blurb about their local team and how Jackson could be a fit for their OF opening or adding him as a potential depth piece. Teams like Texas, Baltimore, Cleveland, cubs, Twinkies etc. Nothing that has any substance though, just a sports writer's take.

 

Fowler and Desmond has had some seemingly genuine speculation but absolutely nothing has been rumored about Jackson. Heck, even Alvarez has had more speculation here lately.

 

This has been a very strange off season.

I think the ask price is so high, once teams hear of it, they don't even bother. I would imagine if you wanted to sign one of Desmond, Fowler, or Jackson today, and announce it tonight or tomorrow, the contract you would have to agree tis nowhere near what most of us think their eventual price will be.

[BlackSox13]

I think the ask price is so high, once teams hear of it, they don't even bother. I would imagine if you wanted to sign one of Desmond, Fowler, or Jackson today, and announce it tonight or tomorrow, the contract you would have to agree tis nowhere near what most of us think their eventual price will be.

I think you're right. There seems to be a stand-off between the remaining free agents and the teams interested in them. Should be interesting to see who blinks first and for how much in terms of money/years.

[caulfield12]

http://www.statista.com/statistics/196644/...-sox-since-2006

 

Looking at this table, it's pretty clear that the disappointment of 2006/2007 cut off the revenue acceleration trend.

We still haven't had back-to-back playoff or even two appearances within a three year span, fwiw.

 

When they did make the playoffs, it was limping into an ambush on turf in Tampa without their MVP, self-sabotaged.

 

You would like to see a bump from 2008 to 2009, but, once again, we didn't have close to the same level of success in the playoffs as 2005.

 

2010-2012 was another upswing, although not nearly as dramatic. The bottom didn't fall out until 2013, and that wouldn't have happened to the degree it did had the White Sox made the playoffs in 2012. Even after the disastrous Adam Dunn year, revenues increased from 2011 to 2012.

 

 

It's pretty clear we were on a huge upswing until the collapse of second half 2006, the 2007 disappointment and then the world financial crisis itself accounts for another not insignificant percentage of flatlining revenue in 2008-09.

 

The world financial crisis really hurt the Midwest region in particular...Chicago, Minnesota, Cincy, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, etc. The Tigers are/were a clear anomaly because of Ilitch spending in the face of all those economic issues in Detroit. Then you have the Cubs and Cardinals that largely weathered the storm due to larger and more regional fanbases.

 

 

http://www.statista.com/statistics/196669/...ins-since-2006/

For example, look at the Twins. Huge bump into their new stadium and last playoff appearance in 2010 (6 overall in 9 seasons) but they also totally flatlined over the last five years and look like Japan economically. In many ways, Twins' fans, despite 1987 and 1991, are skeptics of ownership just like Sox fans...always feeling the Pohlads prioritized profits over adding that last player or two to put them over the top.

 

http://www.statista.com/statistics/196682/...ers-since-2006/

Or the Mariners. Their pop in revenue came primarily from their new regional broadcast rights deal with Root. No playoff appearances, flat revenue.

Edited February 16, 2016 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

Sox payroll rank in MLB over the last 10 years:

2015: 15th

2014: 20th

2013: 8th

2012: 11th

2011: 5th

2010: 7th

2009: 12th

2008: 5th

2007: 5th

2006: 4th

So that's only 1 year in the bottom half which was a rebuilding year, 6 times in the top 10 and 4 times in the top 5. Not bad for a team that struggles with attendance as much as the Sox do. I will be upset if the Sox don't spend money for another upgrade or two before Opening Day, but this idea that the Sox are cheap is exaggerated.

This is a good post. The Sox certainly haven't been cheap since the Series, but it also shows they cut back significantly in recent years because of our semi retooling/rebuilding. Once you consider the $25M in additional national TV money that kicked in a few years back, I think it's fair to say there is still some money left in the cupboard. And I fully expect them to add one more 8 figure salary before spring training. Earlier this offseason I predicted a payroll of around $135M and if we add Fowler or Desmond that should be the case.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Chicago White Sox

[Kyyle23]

I just want to make sure I understand this correctly, the world financial crisis directly affected the spending of Midwest baseball teams.

 

Thank you

[caulfield12]

The world financial crisis had little to no impact on disposable income and leisure time spending for fans, nor did it impact corporate sponsorships for sports marketing in the least.

 

Things just went on as normal, with no adjustments.

 

At least 50% of the criticism here is related to decreased revenues, which makes it pretty difficult to avoid the discussion of fans, group buying or corporate accounts.

 

[caulfield12]

And I have yet to see anyone make credible arguments for other fanbases performing exceedingly well in the face of similar circumstances (going on nine years now without a playoff appearance), other than the Cubs, Cardinals and Tigers, who have an owner who consistently puts profitability behind winning in terms of priorities.

 

Because of those anomalous examples, any fanbase would look bad in comparison.

 

I suppose you could also argue the Brewers, but they had Bud Selig pulling the strings to provide his daughter every possible benefit during his tenure. And, if you exchanged the two respective stadiums, the results would probably be quite different in Milwaukee.

 

Is there any other team in baseball whose fans are similarly under attack for (supposedly) not supporting their team? Tampa Bay? Oakland? Cleveland? Miami? The Atlanta Braves? (they blamed location and fan fear of the downtown area, especially at night...hence, a new suburban stadium).

 

Are Reds' fans to be blamed this year for not turning out, for example, or Rockies' fans? Padres?

 

Eliminating the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Giants and Cubs, since I'm sure everyone would agree those are the true large market clubs, the White Sox clearly don't compare with the Cardinals and Tigers, but what other mid-market teams are doing exceedingly well generating revenues without making the playoffs? Even the Mets have/had struggled greatly in recent years in a much newer stadium, for example.

Edited February 16, 2016 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

And I have yet to see anyone make credible arguments for other fanbases performing exceedingly well in the face of similar circumstances (going on nine years now without a playoff appearance), other than the Cubs, Cardinals and Tigers, who have an owner who consistently puts profitability behind winning in terms of priorities.

 

Because of those anomalous examples, any fanbase would look bad in comparison.

 

I suppose you could also argue the Brewers, but they had Bud Selig pulling the strings to provide his daughter every possible benefit during his tenure. And, if you exchanged the two respective stadiums, the results would probably be quite different in Milwaukee.

 

Is there any other team in baseball whose fans are similarly under attack for (supposedly) not supporting their team? Tampa Bay? Oakland? Cleveland? Miami? The Atlanta Braves? (they blamed location and fan fear of the downtown area, especially at night...hence, a new suburban stadium).

 

Are Reds' fans to be blamed this year for not turning out, for example, or Rockies' fans? Padres?

 

Eliminating the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Giants and Cubs, since I'm sure everyone would agree those are the true large market clubs, the White Sox clearly don't compare with the Cardinals and Tigers, but what other mid-market teams are doing exceedingly well generating revenues without making the playoffs? Even the Mets have/had struggled greatly in recent years in a much newer stadium, for example.

 

You actually make the exact point. The Sox aren't a large market team, and expecting them to spend like one when they don't have that sort of revenue base is completely irrational.

 

[Thad Bosley]

You actually make the exact point. The Sox aren't a large market team, and expecting them to spend like one when they don't have that sort of revenue base is completely irrational.

They ARE a large market team - they play in the city of Chicago. They don't operate as a large market team because they haven't ever figured out how to win in a sustainable fashion in order to build up this revenue base of which you speak.

[Dick Allen]

They ARE a large market team - they play in the city of Chicago. They don't operate as a large market team because they haven't ever figured out how to win in a sustainable fashion in order to build up this revenue base of which you speak.

Send them your resume.

[Thad Bosley]

Send them your resume.

Only approach the bench when summoned, please.

[Dick Allen]

And I have yet to see anyone make credible arguments for other fanbases performing exceedingly well in the face of similar circumstances (going on nine years now without a playoff appearance), other than the Cubs, Cardinals and Tigers, who have an owner who consistently puts profitability behind winning in terms of priorities.

 

Because of those anomalous examples, any fanbase would look bad in comparison.

 

I suppose you could also argue the Brewers, but they had Bud Selig pulling the strings to provide his daughter every possible benefit during his tenure. And, if you exchanged the two respective stadiums, the results would probably be quite different in Milwaukee.

 

Is there any other team in baseball whose fans are similarly under attack for (supposedly) not supporting their team? Tampa Bay? Oakland? Cleveland? Miami? The Atlanta Braves? (they blamed location and fan fear of the downtown area, especially at night...hence, a new suburban stadium).

 

Are Reds' fans to be blamed this year for not turning out, for example, or Rockies' fans? Padres?

 

Eliminating the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Giants and Cubs, since I'm sure everyone would agree those are the true large market clubs, the White Sox clearly don't compare with the Cardinals and Tigers, but what other mid-market teams are doing exceedingly well generating revenues without making the playoffs? Even the Mets have/had struggled greatly in recent years in a much newer stadium, for example.

 

 

The Twins went through a total rebuild and have outdrawn the White Sox 7 years in a row .

 

[Dick Allen]

Only approach the bench when summoned, please.

If you have all the answers, why don't you either let them know or share them with us.

[Thad Bosley]

If you have all the answers, why don't you either let them know or share them with us.

If you have a question, raise your hand and wait until you're called upon.

[LDF]

They ARE a large market team - they play in the city of Chicago. They don't operate as a large market team because they haven't ever figured out how to win in a sustainable fashion in order to build up this revenue base of which you speak.

 

i think this is the important part of your counter, regardless what anyone has to say. they, the owners want to max their profit and yet, can't field the necessary personnel to run the team, to keep them, the team in the running for the playoff.

 

just bad management decisions from the very top. however that is in the past, i like what hahn as done so far and hope the owners will give him what is needed to finish fixing this team and org.

[Dick Allen]

If you have a question, raise your hand and wait until you're called upon.

That is good.

 

No surprise you have no answers.

[Thad Bosley]

That is good.

 

No surprise you have no answers.

If you are going to act like a child and derail conversations the way you like to do, you'll be treated like a child.

[LDF]

The Twins went through a total rebuild and have outdrawn the White Sox 7 years in a row .

 

that is relatively easy to do, when they are the only game in town. but the sox fans will not support a half ass effort from the owners. not esp when many fans, maybe outside soxtalk, believes the owners are not investing their money wisely into the team. the fans needs to see the investment on the field.

 

visual improvement.....

[Dick Allen]

If you are going to act like a child and derail conversations the way you like to do, you'll be treated like a child.

LMAO. The guy who started a thread last year how he was going to change allegiances because the team didn't win enough. He decided not to because he would rather complain, so in essence he would rather complain about a team than have them win. And this is one who refers to someone else as being childish.

 

OK.

 

 

 

[Kyyle23]

If you are going to act like a child and derail conversations the way you like to do, you'll be treated like a child.

 

You play the same game as him, you just derail by consistently attacking the ownership. Frankly, it is tiresome and I wish you both would just stop

[LDF]

LMAO. The guy who started a thread last year how he was going to change allegiances because the team didn't win enough. He decided not to because he would rather complain, so in essence he would rather complain about a team than have them win. And this is one who refers to someone else as being childish.

 

OK.

 

dang, i thought i was the one who complained the most about the sox not doing enuf.

[caulfield12]

The Twins went through a total rebuild and have outdrawn the White Sox 7 years in a row .

 

And that would be relevant if the White Sox had also opened a beautiful new stadium in 2010.

 

Minnesota averaged 27,408 last year when they had a playoff competitive, winning team for the entire season.

In 2014, when they were terrible and had no young stars like Sano and Buxton coming up, 27,785.

 

Horrible fans, right? They finally have a winning team after 4 years of rebuilding and attendance actually declined.

 

The White Sox averaged roughly 33,000 per game the first five years of their new stadium, despite all the issues with the new facility. In year four, they were still averaging over 32000 per game.

 

Year Five....1995....22,358 despite being one of the best teams in baseball.

Now why did that happen?

 

 

[Thad Bosley]

LMAO. The guy who started a thread last year how he was going to change allegiances because the team didn't win enough. He decided not to because he would rather complain, so in essence he would rather complain about a team than have them win. And this is one who refers to someone else as being childish.

 

OK.

I've told you this before, and I'll tell you this again. You've got me confused with someone else, somebody else who you relentlessly attack here, with this "change allegiance" silliness. I never said such a thing, nothing even remotely close. Go back and find this thread - I'd love to see it myself - and if you can't, and you won't, then please stop with the misinformation.