24/7 Wall Street: Sox 5th largest declining fanbase in sports

[Iwritecode]

My point is regardless of what they drew in the 70's and 80's that area has been completely revitalized. All neighborhoods from Old Town to Wrigleyville and West to Roscoe Village, etc. are thriving. As long as they are, the Cubs have a giant, wealthy, entertainment seeking demographic within 5 miles of Wrigley.

 

Sox demographic just doesn't fit around the ballpark. Sure a few thousand maybe. But time to move the product to the burbs where you can take advantage of the family demographic. They'll have a nice leg up in creating a family stadium/atmosphere. Just will never happen under Jerry's watch.

 

Winning trumps location.

[Thad Bosley]

First of all, it's not fair to compare the attendance of the Cubs to pretty much any other team in baseball. Or pretty much any other sport for that matter. For a long time they were the one exception to the rule of winning = attendance. 20+ years of being owned by a national newspaper that can put rose-colored glasses on every single headline it writes while dogging the intercity competition has that affect. There's no other way to explain 3 million people going out to see a team lose almost 100 games.

 

Secondly, don't by into the myth that Wrigley field has always sold-out. There was a time back in the 70's where they literally closed off the entire upper deck. It hasn't changed locations since then.

 

Until last year (when they made the playoffs) their attendance had been steadily dropping since 2008 (their last playoff appearance).

See Harry Caray/superstation WGN exposure impact.

[southsider2k5]

See Harry Caray/superstation WGN exposure impact.

 

If that was it, why don't the Braves have the same following?

[Dick Allen]

See Harry Caray/superstation WGN exposure impact.

He has been dead 18 years

[Thad Bosley]

If that was it, why don't the Braves have the same following?

Good question. The answer is they didn't have Harry Caray and his superior salesmanship selling the ballpark experience day after day after day. As I've mentioned before, if Caray stayed with the Sox and Milo Hamilton had gone on to be the Cubs announcer, the Cubs attendance would have resembled that of the Braves. It was pretty much that before Caray moved over to the Cubs. The Harry Caray impact cannot be understated, which is why I wish he would have remained with the Sox.

[southsider2k5]

Good question. The answer is they didn't have Harry Caray and his superior salesmanship selling the ballpark experience day after day after day. As I've mentioned before, if Caray stayed with the Sox and Milo Hamilton had gone on to be the Cubs announcer, the Cubs attendance would have resembled that of the Braves. It was pretty much that before Caray moved over to the Cubs. The Harry Caray impact cannot be understated, which is why I wish he would have remained with the Sox.

 

So Harry Carry is the reason the Cubs are as famous as they are? Yikes.

[Thad Bosley]

So Harry Carry is the reason the Cubs are as famous as they are? Yikes.

I absolutely, positively, 100% believe that to be the case.

[Dick Allen]

I absolutely, positively, 100% believe that to be the case.

Even if that was the case, and I don't buy it because the White Sox outdrew the Cubs Harry's first 3 years at Wrigley and on the superstation, the fault that the White Sox weren't broadcastigpng 120 games on WGN isn't on JR or EE. It pre dates them.When they had the team, the Cubs had the dates. There was no way they would have anything but a limited schedule on WGN, and then the Tribune bought the Cubs meaning there was no way they would ever be able to trump the Cubs on that station.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

I absolutely, positively, 100% believe that to be the case.

 

SO why haven't they fallen off since then, and why didn't the Sox see that bounce in the 70's?

[caulfield12]

Here's another way of looking at it...

 

If Arne Harris was the producer of Sox broadcasts during that time and spent half the time zeroing in on the cutest girls wearing the least amount of clothing in the bleachers (shower shots!) and a bunch of frat nerds drinking Budweisers and not talking about the game, would that have moved Sox attendance one iota?

 

Or would that have increased the negative association with USCF (see William Ligue incident) as not being a safe/family-oriented place?

[greg775]

Not surprising. Sox have been abysmal the last several years. And with this particularly bad fundamental baseball and boring offenses the past few seasons, no doubt people are losing interest. Sox had so many terrible performances the last couple seasons at the Cell. If you happened to see one of those stinkers, you probably have no intention of returning until the team starts contending again.

I've said it before, but it has to be a tough sell for season tickets with the commisioner deciding that the Sox should play a majority of games against Minnesota, Cleveland, Detroit and KC. Ugh. Can you say, "been there; done that?"

 

Just saying it's not surprising our attendance sucks.

[Vance Law]

1 playoff appearance in 10 years will do that

 

They didn't make the playoffs between 1959 and 1983.

 

Attendance in 2015 was the same as attendance was in 2001 and better than it was in 2002, 1998, 1999, 1996. This article is idiotic and I haven't and won't read the article.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Vance Law

[COACH612]

IMO, a huge factor is the location. Nothing to do after the game. Don't want to be around there after dark. Also, who wants to pay good money to see a lousy team who can't run the bases properly, move runners over, get runners in, or even score runs. I will not spend my hard earned money on any inferior product. Bottom line.

[Dick Allen]

IMO, a huge factor is the location. Nothing to do after the game. Don't want to be around there after dark. Also, who wants to pay good money to see a lousy team who can't run the bases properly, move runners over, get runners in, or even score runs. I will not spend my hard earned money on any inferior product. Bottom line.

That has described the Cubs product for a good portion of their attendance dominance. So apparently, playing well has nothing to do with it. Ricketts actually said something interesting last week. He said the Cubs neighborhood was actually pretty s***ty for a lot of their fans. He said it was great for meeting your college buddies and going to a game, but that was about it. He has a point. What is in that neighborhood for kids? They don't have the kids' days and family days like the White Sox do. If anything, it shows getting to the younger generation as quickly as possible doesn't really mean much.

[caulfield12]

And whose children out of all those 3.5 million plus fans going through the Wrigley turnstiles this year are going to be cheering for the White Sox over the Cubs?

[COACH612]

That has described the Cubs product for a good portion of their attendance dominance. So apparently, playing well has nothing to do with it. Ricketts actually said something interesting last week. He said the Cubs neighborhood was actually pretty s***ty for a lot of their fans. He said it was great for meeting your college buddies and going to a game, but that was about it. He has a point. What is in that neighborhood for kids? They don't have the kids' days and family days like the White Sox do. If anything, it shows getting to the younger generation as quickly as possible doesn't really mean much.

Ricketts is right but the outside the park stuff is fun even at my 53 years. What's outside the Cell? Project housing.

[Thad Bosley]

SO why haven't they fallen off since then, and why didn't the Sox see that bounce in the 70's?

Well this is precisely my point when I talk about the mega impact the coming together of Harry Caray and his extraordinary salesmanship and the exposure that came along with superstation WGN. It was a match made in heaven. That guy absolutely sold the Wrigley Field experience like no other. Remember, the Cubs were not the national fixation they are today before Harry arrived there. In fact, in his first season, '82, that game when Lee Elia went off the rails, there were only 3,000 fans in the stands that day. When was the last time you could say there were only 3,000 fans at Wrigley? Now granted, it took Caray a couple of years to take hold on the north side. Cubs fans had to get used to his style after decades of the Jack Brickhouse style. But in '84 he really started to take off, and the Cubs franchise has not looked back ever since. They were a terrible team for most of Harry's time there, with the exception of '84 & '89, but starting in '84, that place was packed to the rafters almost every day and has been ever since. And it's all because of Caray's years of selling Wrigley Field to the gazillions of people across the nation who got WGN in their homes.

 

As for the Sox in the 70s, they absolutely got a bounce from his presence. In fact, that's why the Sox brought him to Chicago in the first place, hoping he would help with what was a disastrous attendance problem back in those days. The Sox drew under 500,000 in 1970, and so Harry's contract starting in 1971 included an attendance clause. The Sox improved their attendance in each of the years he was broadcasting and he received the maximum bonus as per the agreement, to the point that attendance improved so much after a few years that they simply couldn't afford to pay him that bonus any longer. And that was with no where near the exposure he got when he was on WGN.

 

So that was his specialty, selling the experience for whichever team he was employed for. I just wish he would have continued to have done so for the Sox on WGN, like he did for the one year when he had the chance to do so. Unfortunately the owners' egos got in the way of that happening.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[Dick Allen]

Well this is precisely my point when I talk about the mega impact the coming together of Harry Caray and his extraordinary salesmanship and the exposure that came along with superstation WGN. It was a match made in heaven. That guy absolutely sold the Wrigley Field experience like no other. Remember, the Cubs were not the national fixation they are today before Harry arrived there. In fact, in his first season, '82, that game when Lee Elia went off the rails, there were only 3,000 fans in the stands that day. When was the last time you could say there were only 3,000 fans at Wrigley? Now granted, it took Caray a couple of years to take hold on the north side. Cubs fans had to get used to his style after decades of the Jack Brickhouse style. But in '84 he really started to take off, and the Cubs franchise has not looked back ever since. They were a terrible team for most of Harry's time there, with the exception of '84 & '89, but starting in '84, that place was packed to the rafters almost every day and has been ever since. And it's all because of Caray's years of selling Wrigley Field to the gazillions of people across the nation who got WGN in their homes.

 

As for the Sox in the 70s, they absolutely got a bounce from his presence. In fact, that's why the Sox brought him to Chicago in the first place, hoping he would help with what was a disastrous attendance problem back in those days. The Sox drew under 500,000 in 1970, and so Harry's contract starting in 1971 included an attendance clause. The Sox improved their attendance in each of the years he was broadcasting and he received the maximum bonus as per the agreement, to the point that attendance improved so much after a few years that they simply couldn't afford to pay him that bonus any longer. And that was with no where near the exposure he got when he was on WGN.

 

So that was his specialty, selling the experience for whichever team he was employed for. I just wish he would have continued to have done so for the Sox on WGN, like he did for the one year when he had the chance to do so. Unfortunately the owners' egos got in the way of that happening.

He had the attendance clause not because he anticipated bringing people into the park, but that would mean the team had more money, so he should be paid more. Think about it, if he is so important, why did the team almost move after 1975 when they didn't even average 10k a game? The attendance was clearly tied to wins and losses. It peaked in 1977 and went down from there until Reinsdorf bought the team and they signed some free agents.

 

The White Sox biggest problem nationally is being on the Southside, always sterotyped as a dangerous place to be. Now you get to hear about how many people get shot on the Southside, and despite it being nowhere near the park, it is still in minds.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Well this is precisely my point when I talk about the mega impact the coming together of Harry Caray and his extraordinary salesmanship and the exposure that came along with superstation WGN. It was a match made in heaven. That guy absolutely sold the Wrigley Field experience like no other. Remember, the Cubs were not the national fixation they are today before Harry arrived there. In fact, in his first season, '82, that game when Lee Elia went off the rails, there were only 3,000 fans in the stands that day. When was the last time you could say there were only 3,000 fans at Wrigley? Now granted, it took Caray a couple of years to take hold on the north side. Cubs fans had to get used to his style after decades of the Jack Brickhouse style. But in '84 he really started to take off, and the Cubs franchise has not looked back ever since. They were a terrible team for most of Harry's time there, with the exception of '84 & '89, but starting in '84, that place was packed to the rafters almost every day and has been ever since. And it's all because of Caray's years of selling Wrigley Field to the gazillions of people across the nation who got WGN in their homes.

 

As for the Sox in the 70s, they absolutely got a bounce from his presence. In fact, that's why the Sox brought him to Chicago in the first place, hoping he would help with what was a disastrous attendance problem back in those days. The Sox drew under 500,000 in 1970, and so Harry's contract starting in 1971 included an attendance clause. The Sox improved their attendance in each of the years he was broadcasting and he received the maximum bonus as per the agreement, to the point that attendance improved so much after a few years that they simply couldn't afford to pay him that bonus any longer. And that was with no where near the exposure he got when he was on WGN.

 

So that was his specialty, selling the experience for whichever team he was employed for. I just wish he would have continued to have done so for the Sox on WGN, like he did for the one year when he had the chance to do so. Unfortunately the owners' egos got in the way of that happening.

 

I don't buy that for a second. First off that same magic didn't happen here, second that magic didn't disappear when he left.

[Iwritecode]

I don't buy that for a second. First off that same magic didn't happen here, second that magic didn't disappear when he left.

 

I think having Harry, combined with being owned by a major newspaper along with being aired all season long on a superstation all across the country created the perfect storm for them.

 

Add in a few things like the Sosa/McGuire homerun chase, a handful of playoff appearances (including 2 in back to back years) and anniversaries of all sorts that meant "this is the year" Harry's death, 100 years, BTTF, etc... it's not hard to figure out how they've kept the attendance up year after year.

 

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

The Cubs drew more fans per game the next 14 seasons after Harry died than they ever did when he was alive.

[Thad Bosley]

For those interested in understanding the impact Harry Caray had on the Cubs franchise and why it was a terrible mistake by our current knuckleheaded owners to ever let him go, have a look at this well-written synopsis. The author is spot on as it relates to this subject.

 

http://kentsterling.com/2013/07/15/chicago...lk-to-the-cubs/

[Kyyle23]

Ricketts is right but the outside the park stuff is fun even at my 53 years. What's outside the Cell? Project housing.

 

Hasnt this all been torn down?

[Dick Allen]

For those interested in understanding the impact Harry Caray had on the Cubs franchise and why it was a terrible mistake by our current knuckleheaded owners to ever let him go, have a look at this well-written synopsis. The author is spot on as it relates to this subject.

 

http://kentsterling.com/2013/07/15/chicago...lk-to-the-cubs/

First off he mentions, since Caray's 3rd season (1984) gee, what happened in 1984?

 

And again, you are totally ignoring the fact that the White Sox would never have had the access of 100+ dates on the superstation through no fault of JR or EE.

 

 

[bruni]

The Wrigley 'cool factor' hit nationally with the release of Ferris Bueller's Day Off making it the 'go-to' place to be. That was the icing on the cake following the 84 season and Harry finally gaining traction as the Cubs mascot of the 80's. Couple that with the WGN 'superstation' and you get that daily influx of thousands of out of town fans who suddenly needed to check Wrigley off their respective 'bucket lists'.