24/7 Wall Street: Sox 5th largest declining fanbase in sports

[caulfield12]

That's their job, right? Each and every year, they should be investing in the team to try and continually improve it. And let's be clear about last year's so-called investment: it only brought the total team payroll to a mere $2M and $5M more than that of the small market Royals and Twins, respectively. Middle of the pack at best. So let's not ever make the mistake of describing last year's investment as some sort of effort to go above and beyond. As another poster has pointed out, that would be accomplished by going in the red for a year or two to try and lift this team up. To date, that hasn't happened.

 

The Royals added Cueto and Zobrist and ended last year at $152 million...while we played the fiddle as the Shark Tank burned.

[cabiness42]

This was the Blackhawks in some polls until they turned it around so obviously the White Sox are on the verge of a dynasty.

 

There was the key event of the owner dying.

[LDF]

This was the Blackhawks in some polls until they turned it around so obviously the White Sox are on the verge of a dynasty.

 

good post,

 

the hawks turned it around when $$$ Bill passed away and they brought in a whole new FO.

 

now the sox can turn it around, if and i mean if they can finish what they started.... yeah it started last yr and it was not all perfect .... esp in the coaching dept, but it is a start. now get that final piece in the OF and maybe another sp.

 

they, the owners and the fans will be the major winners b/c of this improvements. book it.

[LDF]

The Royals added Cueto and Zobrist and ended last year at $152 million...while we played the fiddle as the Shark Tank burned.

 

and i can bet kc thought that the extra money spent was the best investment they did.

[Steve9347]

Didn't read the piece, don't know what the criteria were, but if 10-year attendance decline is a factor, then you're starting the Sox at an unusually high bar for them.

Nailed it. Start it the year we win a World Series and end it after another s*** season.

[LDF]

Same old angry and bitter commentary on the fan base...

 

Meanwhile, the article is focused on an eroding fan base, which should be alarming to the powers that-be over at 35th and Shields.

 

this bold is the key to any discussion. eroding, wasting away, deteriorating away..... that is point. can't anyone see that, esp the owners... fix the product.

 

now the key word for an opposite meaning is rebuilding........

[LittleHurt05]

Didn't read the piece, don't know what the criteria were, but if 10-year attendance decline is a factor, then you're starting the Sox at an unusually high bar for them.

 

Their 12 year attendance decline is minimal at best.

[Dick Allen]

When the White Sox won the WS, a year they never where not in first place even for a day, they had below AL average attendance.

 

When they won the division in 2000, they were over 300k below average attendance wise. That is probably where they are at right now. Win a division, you will be about 4k a game below average. Win a playoff series or 3, you will get a bump the next season.

 

2000 300k below AL average

2005 18k below AL average

2008 36k above AL average

 

It isn't really like the Sox fanbase goes overboard to support a winner. They become average.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Iwritecode]

Win a playoff series or 3, you will get a bump the next season.

 

There's the key. Now if they could only manage to figure out how to do that two years in a row.

[bmags]

When the White Sox won the WS, a year they never where not in first place even for a day, they had below AL average attendance.

 

When they won the division in 2000, they were over 300k below average attendance wise. That is probably where they are at right now. Win a division, you will be about 4k a game below average. Win a playoff series or 3, you will get a bump the next season.

 

2000 300k below AL average

2005 18k below AL average

2008 36k above AL average

 

It isn't really like the Sox fanbase goes overboard to support a winner. They become average.

Frankly I'm more concerned by TV ratings. I can't really blame people last year though. April/May and June up until Cubs series were just awful to watch. They had a good 6 week stretch and then Trayce was the only reason to watch.

[Bob Sacamano]

There's the key. Now if they could only manage to figure out how to do that two years in a row.

 

Baby steps...let's first manage to get to ONE play off series at this point.

[he gone.]

a) Jerry yawns at this. Sports franchises have been one of the best investments out there. The ROR is still very, very strong.

b) The Sox still make money. They have a sweat lease deal. Beyond that they cut corners with things like the Ballpark Pass to stay UNDER their attendance numbers where they have to start paying kickbacks

c) This is a stupid article. Let's start this as of 2007 aka the Jerry Owens era and see how much we've declined since then... stats can make any story look good or bad. They can be manipulated.

d) We will always be second fiddle in Chicago, who cares. Really the only way to build a fan base is to move to the burbs. You'll always have a very LARGE majority of Chicagoland that aren't really "fans". Meaning I know enough people who were Sox fans in 05-06 and are Cubs fans in 2014-2015. People want entertainment. If that entertainment is a ballpark 20 mins from their home, then that's what they'll take.

 

[Iwritecode]

Baby steps...let's first manage to get to ONE play off series at this point.

 

Well of course that's the start. But they've done that a few times. Then they follow them up with a few 2nd or 3rd place finishes and all the excitement that was built up goes away again. It's going to take time and consistent winning to really make a difference. Being in first place for "most of the season" just doesn't cut it.

[Iwritecode]

You'll always have a very LARGE majority of Chicagoland that aren't really "fans". Meaning I know enough people who were Sox fans in 05-06 and are Cubs fans in 2014-2015. People want entertainment. If that entertainment is a ballpark 20 mins from their home, then that's what they'll take.

 

And what do the Sox in 05-06 have in common with the Cubs in 2014-2015?

 

Hint: It's not about the location.

[he gone.]

And what do the Sox in 05-06 have in common with the Cubs in 2014-2015?

 

Hint: It's not about the location.

 

 

Winning ... I understand that. That's why I picked those particular years. However the point being a large amount of fans couldn't care less about being a "die-hard" to one team.

To think though that location isn't huge too would be an understatement. The amount of school outings to games, summer camps, etc. would increase 10-fold in the burbs. But I don't want to digress from what this topic started off as. We'll go down a long road we all don't want to.

 

 

 

[harfman77]

There's one problem with this theory.

 

If the Reinsdorfs were trying to sell, while they would want to keep the payroll from being encumbered with too many bad long-term contracts, you also have a diminished product without any nationally-recognized superstars as well (referring more to the idea of bringing in players to supplement the current core).

 

And yeah, the problem is that Upton/Gordon/Cespedes aren't really superstars either, although Cespedes certainly played like one last year and has all the flair in his game. Illitch described Upton as a star, fwiw.

 

Since the White Sox couldn't be moved until 2029 at the earliest, you'd think they would want to have teams in 2018 and 2019 that are playoff-worthy/competitive and also look like sound broadcast rights investments for 2020-2022.

 

This current trend of the fanbase bouncing back and forth like a yo-yo (tremendous expectations coming into 2011 and 2015)...but ending up disappointed, whatever they do, whatever they have to spend...they need to field a consistent winner and soon.

 

In some ways, they've also got to hope Sano, Buxton and Berrios don't all live up to their potential or Minnesota will be a starter away from being a serious threat...luckily, that Mauer contract has encumbered them (along with the disappointments from Santana/Nolasco) enough to dampen spending for this year while they wait on their farm. But you're to the point with the Tigers and Royals desperately all-in, the Indians with a better overall young core of players and the Twins with the highest upside of all, they're going to have to pick a lane and stay in it.

 

How sure are we that this is still the case. The lease was opened up so that the team would start paying some rent in 2011, I imagine JR would not have signed off on a deal where he gave up something without getting a fair return. We know he got the restaurant, but I would not be surprised if got an opt out as well.

 

As far as superstars, they still have at least one and possibly two. Most teams are not flush with stars when they are sold. Most recently the Cubs and Astros did not have much in the way of star power when they were purchased. The Dodgers had Kershaw, but at the time he was still inexpensive.

 

You are definitely right about the yo-yo strategy. Supposedly the team is rebuilding, but has done very little to go out of its way to secure young talent. There were a plethora of amateur free agents that would have filled in gaps in the Sox farm system in the last 24 months and the Sox have been content to let that talent go elsewhere. They have traded prospects with big league talent for a stop gap solution in Todd Frazier, given up two prospects to sign a veteran OF and a top level closer, all things that would contradict with a true rebuild.

 

So then it would lead you to believe the team was going to go for it, but as it stands now, the team is not really any better than it was last season. They went and filled a gap but created two more.

 

Their plan, whatever it is, is not very cohesive. Its like the front office is schizophrenic and cannot make up its mind what to do.

[harfman77]

And what do the Sox in 05-06 have in common with the Cubs in 2014-2015?

 

Hint: It's not about the location.

 

How did the 05-06 Sox attendance compare to the 05-06 Cubs? I dont really know the best source for that type of data.

[LDF]

How did the 05-06 Sox attendance compare to the 05-06 Cubs? I dont really know the best source for that type of data.

 

i would include the 2 yrs

 

2005-06 and the 2006-07

 

the following yr should be affected by the WS win as well.

 

just my opinion.

[cabiness42]

How did the 05-06 Sox attendance compare to the 05-06 Cubs? I dont really know the best source for that type of data.

 

In '06 the Sox and Cubs both made the World Series.

 

 

Oh wait, you meant 2006.

[Dick Allen]

How did the 05-06 Sox attendance compare to the 05-06 Cubs? I dont really know the best source for that type of data.

The 79-83 Cubs outdrew the 2005 World Champions by 758,000

The 66-96 2006 Cubs outdrew the defending champions who set their franchise attendance record by 166k.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Dick Allen

[captain54]

Ratings is a percentage of households. Sox market is so huge, they are still pulling in more viewers than most teams. Yes, next deal won't be near what the Cubs get, but it will still be good.

 

That's not true.. Forbes listed the RCN Prime Time ratings last October… Neilsen ratings take the percentage of households in the area tuned into the regional sports network.. the White Sox had less than 1% of households tuned into CSN during prime time, lowest in MLB... despite the size of the Sox market, the only MLB team with a lower cumulative viewership was the A's

 

In contrast, the Royals had a percentage 12x higher than the Sox, and a cumulative viewership 10x that of the Sox, despite a smaller market..

[he gone.]

The 79-83 Cubs outdrew the 2005 World Champions by 758,000

The 66-96 2006 Cubs outdrew the defending champions who set their franchise attendance record by 166k.

 

 

Wow. I didn't figure it was that bad.. Let's face it. We're the diehards of the diehards on this board. We'll go wherever they play. However, people like my father or many friends of mine just won't simply make the trip. They have kids and tasks to do. Taking 2+ hours RT to drive on a Wednesday isn't happening. That leaves a few weekend games a year they go to.

The other team draws on a large Northside population. We can argue to the cows come home, but even I, end up going to more Cubs games a year than Sox. (Probably 12 Cubs games, 10 Sox or so each year). How? Why? I get free tickets (never paid to get into Wrigley), and also I can walk or take 2 min cab to a game. Same for when its over. Very nice to leave the ballpark in the Top 8, and be in bed by the Top 9. We'll never win that crowd over. We can however win over the suburb crowd who is looking for somewhat of the same comfort.

[Iwritecode]

Wow. I didn't figure it was that bad.. Let's face it. We're the diehards of the diehards on this board. We'll go wherever they play. However, people like my father or many friends of mine just won't simply make the trip. They have kids and tasks to do. Taking 2+ hours RT to drive on a Wednesday isn't happening. That leaves a few weekend games a year they go to.

The other team draws on a large Northside population. We can argue to the cows come home, but even I, end up going to more Cubs games a year than Sox. (Probably 12 Cubs games, 10 Sox or so each year). How? Why? I get free tickets (never paid to get into Wrigley), and also I can walk or take 2 min cab to a game. Same for when its over. Very nice to leave the ballpark in the Top 8, and be in bed by the Top 9. We'll never win that crowd over. We can however win over the suburb crowd who is looking for somewhat of the same comfort.

 

First of all, it's not fair to compare the attendance of the Cubs to pretty much any other team in baseball. Or pretty much any other sport for that matter. For a long time they were the one exception to the rule of winning = attendance. 20+ years of being owned by a national newspaper that can put rose-colored glasses on every single headline it writes while dogging the intercity competition has that affect. There's no other way to explain 3 million people going out to see a team lose almost 100 games.

 

Secondly, don't by into the myth that Wrigley field has always sold-out. There was a time back in the 70's where they literally closed off the entire upper deck. It hasn't changed locations since then.

 

Until last year (when they made the playoffs) their attendance had been steadily dropping since 2008 (their last playoff appearance).

[LDF]

Wow. I didn't figure it was that bad.. Let's face it. We're the diehards of the diehards on this board. We'll go wherever they play. However, people like my father or many friends of mine just won't simply make the trip. They have kids and tasks to do. Taking 2+ hours RT to drive on a Wednesday isn't happening. That leaves a few weekend games a year they go to.

The other team draws on a large Northside population. We can argue to the cows come home, but even I, end up going to more Cubs games a year than Sox. (Probably 12 Cubs games, 10 Sox or so each year). How? Why? I get free tickets (never paid to get into Wrigley), and also I can walk or take 2 min cab to a game. Same for when its over. Very nice to leave the ballpark in the Top 8, and be in bed by the Top 9. We'll never win that crowd over. We can however win over the suburb crowd who is looking for somewhat of the same comfort.

 

that freak of a team on the northside .... can compare with them.

 

the sox needs to be competitive and then they can use present attendance with itself to gage it success or failure.

 

the team the sox would have been great if the owners didn't screwed it, the new location around the PO would have been soooo much better.

 

but oh well that didn't happen.

[he gone.]

My point is regardless of what they drew in the 70's and 80's that area has been completely revitalized. All neighborhoods from Old Town to Wrigleyville and West to Roscoe Village, etc. are thriving. As long as they are, the Cubs have a giant, wealthy, entertainment seeking demographic within 5 miles of Wrigley.

 

Sox demographic just doesn't fit around the ballpark. Sure a few thousand maybe. But time to move the product to the burbs where you can take advantage of the family demographic. They'll have a nice leg up in creating a family stadium/atmosphere. Just will never happen under Jerry's watch.