24/7 Wall Street: Sox 5th largest declining fanbase in sports

[blackmooncreeping]

Hasnt this all been torn down?

Yes, that's such an old take. A lot has been done around the Cell over the last 10-15 years. Due West are residential neighborhoods, not the hood.

[Quin]

Hasnt this all been torn down?

 

Armor Square and Bridgeport have become very affluent in recent years. Nothing like they used to.

[COACH612]

oh yea right. How about just 1 block south east on the other side of the church. That's very affluent.

[Thad Bosley]

First off he mentions, since Caray's 3rd season (1984) gee, what happened in 1984?

 

And again, you are totally ignoring the fact that the White Sox would never have had the access of 100+ dates on the superstation through no fault of JR or EE.

In 1981, WGN carried 64 White Sox games. By June, Eddie Einhorn was in the booth with Harry telling him that the TV ratings were the highest they'd ever been and that it was being reflected in increased attendance as well. So even though, to your point, the Sox would never get as many games televised on WGN as the Cubs, even with the abbreviated schedule, Caray broadcasting Sox games on WGN where he was reaching a far greater audience than he ever did on the lowly Channel 44 was clearly having an impact. Just ask Eddie Einhorn - he'll tell ya!!

[ewokpelts]

I know you're the "blame the customer" guy, but your point on ratings is exactly why the Sox need to invest in the team and go into the red if needed. Our current TV deal expires in 2019 and if ratings to continue to suck, we're going to get a s***ty long-term TV deal. Therefore, there is every incentive in the world for Reinsdorf to spend some money and build some excitement for this team. The potential payoff in the long-run would be tenfold the likely short-term costs.

the angels had s***ty ratings when they signed their deal. and the rangers rating were not much better.

 

sox also own equity in the tv network. and have guaranteed carriage on local systems. something the 8 billion dollar dodger tv deal doesn't have.

[ewokpelts]

oh yea right. How about just 1 block south east on the other side of the church. That's very affluent.

that's a superhighway.

 

[ewokpelts]

Ratings is a percentage of households. Sox market is so huge, they are still pulling in more viewers than most teams. Yes, next deal won't be near what the Cubs get, but it will still be good.

cubs are going on their own. with no guarantees that Comcast and directv will pay the per subscriber costs.

[ewokpelts]

The 79-83 Cubs outdrew the 2005 World Champions by 758,000

The 66-96 2006 Cubs outdrew the defending champions who set their franchise attendance record by 166k.

the cubs also have a waiting list of 100,000 email addresses.

 

 

 

[ewokpelts]

My point is regardless of what they drew in the 70's and 80's that area has been completely revitalized. All neighborhoods from Old Town to Wrigleyville and West to Roscoe Village, etc. are thriving. As long as they are, the Cubs have a giant, wealthy, entertainment seeking demographic within 5 miles of Wrigley.

 

Sox demographic just doesn't fit around the ballpark. Sure a few thousand maybe. But time to move the product to the burbs where you can take advantage of the family demographic. They'll have a nice leg up in creating a family stadium/atmosphere. Just will never happen under Jerry's watch.

the suburbs is death to the franchise.

[ewokpelts]

Good question. The answer is they didn't have Harry Caray and his superior salesmanship selling the ballpark experience day after day after day. As I've mentioned before, if Caray stayed with the Sox and Milo Hamilton had gone on to be the Cubs announcer, the Cubs attendance would have resembled that of the Braves. It was pretty much that before Caray moved over to the Cubs. The Harry Caray impact cannot be understated, which is why I wish he would have remained with the Sox.

the braves attendance dropped WHILE THEY WERE WINNING 14 DIVISION TITLES.

[ewokpelts]

I absolutely, positively, 100% believe that to be the case.

It's not so cut and dry. He was a great pitchman, but the cubs were on a superstation beaming into cable households all over America. just like the mets and braves.

 

 

and there was 1984. and john McDonough. and the gentrification of the neighborhood.

[ewokpelts]

IMO, a huge factor is the location. Nothing to do after the game. Don't want to be around there after dark. Also, who wants to pay good money to see a lousy team who can't run the bases properly, move runners over, get runners in, or even score runs. I will not spend my hard earned money on any inferior product. Bottom line.

so which is it? the team or the park?

[ewokpelts]

That has described the Cubs product for a good portion of their attendance dominance. So apparently, playing well has nothing to do with it. Ricketts actually said something interesting last week. He said the Cubs neighborhood was actually pretty s***ty for a lot of their fans. He said it was great for meeting your college buddies and going to a game, but that was about it. He has a point. What is in that neighborhood for kids? They don't have the kids' days and family days like the White Sox do. If anything, it shows getting to the younger generation as quickly as possible doesn't really mean much.

and to respond to that, the cubs are building...more bars and tshirt shops.

[ewokpelts]

Ricketts is right but the outside the park stuff is fun even at my 53 years. What's outside the Cell? Project housing.

that's f***ing bulls***, and you know it.

 

[ewokpelts]

Well this is precisely my point when I talk about the mega impact the coming together of Harry Caray and his extraordinary salesmanship and the exposure that came along with superstation WGN. It was a match made in heaven. That guy absolutely sold the Wrigley Field experience like no other. Remember, the Cubs were not the national fixation they are today before Harry arrived there. In fact, in his first season, '82, that game when Lee Elia went off the rails, there were only 3,000 fans in the stands that day. When was the last time you could say there were only 3,000 fans at Wrigley? Now granted, it took Caray a couple of years to take hold on the north side. Cubs fans had to get used to his style after decades of the Jack Brickhouse style. But in '84 he really started to take off, and the Cubs franchise has not looked back ever since. They were a terrible team for most of Harry's time there, with the exception of '84 & '89, but starting in '84, that place was packed to the rafters almost every day and has been ever since. And it's all because of Caray's years of selling Wrigley Field to the gazillions of people across the nation who got WGN in their homes.

 

As for the Sox in the 70s, they absolutely got a bounce from his presence. In fact, that's why the Sox brought him to Chicago in the first place, hoping he would help with what was a disastrous attendance problem back in those days. The Sox drew under 500,000 in 1970, and so Harry's contract starting in 1971 included an attendance clause. The Sox improved their attendance in each of the years he was broadcasting and he received the maximum bonus as per the agreement, to the point that attendance improved so much after a few years that they simply couldn't afford to pay him that bonus any longer. And that was with no where near the exposure he got when he was on WGN.

 

So that was his specialty, selling the experience for whichever team he was employed for. I just wish he would have continued to have done so for the Sox on WGN, like he did for the one year when he had the chance to do so. Unfortunately the owners' egos got in the way of that happening.

Chip Caray, is that you?

[COACH612]

so which is it? the team or the park?

not so much on the location but why pay good money to see crappy baseball when I can see the same game at home for free?

[lasttriptotulsa]

Holy f***. 11 consecutive posts. That has to be some kind of record. You do know you can quote more than one post at a time and just respond once right?

[harfman77]

that's f***ing bulls***, and you know it.

 

Its not really. Wrigleyville is a tourist destination, people from my area go there just to hang out when they are in town no one is going to hang out around the Cell. The reputation of the area and the lack of things to do don't make it a desirable night out.

 

The Cubs have an advantage in that going to Wrigley is part of your night out whereas at the Cell it is your night out.

[ewokpelts]

Holy f***. 11 consecutive posts. That has to be some kind of record. You do know you can quote more than one post at a time and just respond once right?

don't know. don't care.

[ewokpelts]

Its not really. Wrigleyville is a tourist destination, people from my area go there just to hang out when they are in town no one is going to hang out around the Cell. The reputation of the area and the lack of things to do don't make it a desirable night out.

 

The Cubs have an advantage in that going to Wrigley is part of your night out whereas at the Cell it is your night out.

the bulls*** in question is the projects. which have been long gone and replaced by condos and townhomes.

 

my statement had NOTHING to do with the dribble your fingers typed.

[ewokpelts]

not so much on the location but why pay good money to see crappy baseball when I can see the same game at home for free?

actually, yes is an important distinction.

 

YOU just said that location was a huge factor, but in your reply to me, downplay that.

 

Why aren't you going to games? Is it because of the stadium, or the team that plays in it?