How much did Rick Hahn improve the catching position?

[Quin]

We all know catching was a sorespot for the team last year, so Mike Holley (Eminor) took a look at how much the catching for the White Sox has actually improved.

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/soxnet/2016/01/h...ching-for-2016/

[southsider2k5]

That is really nice work. I know as people have mused about the off season we always hear about the improvements at 2nd and 3rd, but Catcher has been kind of lost in that. I wonder how this translates to fWAR? 2 or 3 more wins from that group when added to the pluses from Frazier and Lawrie would put us somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 fWAR on paper.

[Rowand44]

Great analysis and break down per usual, eminor.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Rowand44

[BaconOnAStick]

I am hoping the Sox have Navarro at DH and Avila behind the plate (and LaRoche very far away from the team) for much of the season.

[OmarComing25]

I am hoping the Sox have Navarro at DH and Avila behind the plate (and LaRoche very far away from the team) for much of the season.

Not going to happen unless we grab a third catcher for the bench.

[bmags]

Wow, Navarro's beard is truly terrible.

[Eminor3rd]

That is really nice work. I know as people have mused about the off season we always hear about the improvements at 2nd and 3rd, but Catcher has been kind of lost in that. I wonder how this translates to fWAR? 2 or 3 more wins from that group when added to the pluses from Frazier and Lawrie would put us somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 fWAR on paper.

 

Great analysis and break down per usual, eminor.

 

Thanks guys!

[dasox24]

Great stuff. Very well done.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Not going to happen unless we grab a third catcher for the bench.

 

Sox do have 3 catchers slotted for Charlotte in Hector Sanchez, Brantley, and Smith. Brantley is also out of options. Not saying that's what I think they will do, but it could be an option. Personally I don't like the idea at all of carrying 3 catchers.

 

BTW, that was a really good read, eminor.

Edited January 23, 2016 by CWSpalehoseCWS

[BlackSox13]

Agree with everyone else, well done Eminor. You provided some very good insight to the potential upgrades as well as downgrades. Overall, I expect a rather noticeable improvement offensively and defensively from the catcher position. With the positive things Navarro and Avila bring to the team, I'll take the potential pitch framing short comings. I think Hahn did very well in addressing the catcher position and doing so early in the off season.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Very comprehensive piece. Love how you pointed out how the defensive values are so weird and drawing too many conclusions about them is subjective. You didn't just pick a side you took the time to point out every angle. Very well written also . Must have proof read it thoroughly.

[Chicago White Sox]

Very comprehensive piece. Love how you pointed out how the defensive values are so weird and drawing too many conclusions about them is subjective. You didn't just pick a side you took the time to point out every angle. Very well written also . Must have proof read it thoroughly.

Agree 100%. Excellent analysis.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'd like to add one more thing that Mike (Eminor) missed when talking about pitch framing since I've made a nuisance of myself in the past about it. The umps also play a key role. Perhaps the strike zone is called tighter than it used to be but catchers know which umps have certain tendencies to call the high strike, low strike ,inside and outside corners and they roll with it and hope the pitcher can take advantage of it.

 

I was listening to LaTroy Hawkins tell a story on MLBN where he said to Greg Maddox ," You know those pitches aren't strikes don't you " ? and Maddux replied along the lines of I can't help it if I can hit that spot 8 out of 10 times and you can do it only 4. Meaning if you can do it that consistently the ump will give it to you.

 

Another thing I was watching about Livan and Orlando Hernandez defection from Cuba and when Livan was pitching in the ALCS or World Series and the ump behind the plate was calling everything away off the plate a strike. So Charles Johnson ,the catcher ,goes out to the mound and says to Livan, "I think we just need to stay away away away." Livan agrees and ends up with 15K's .That kind of thing has a domino effect. Hitters see it being called a strike and they end up saying "well now I have to swing at that pitch" and when the pitcher gets them swinging at it he goes even further outside. Being an intelligent pitcher is an art form that involves the catcher and the ump and the pitchers ability to take advantage of his reputation and change a plan when the circumstances call for it.

Edited January 23, 2016 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[sin city sox fan]

I'm going to miss Tyler Flowers.

[ptatc]

I'd like to add one more thing that Mike (Eminor) missed when talking about pitch framing since I've made a nuisance of myself in the past about it. The umps also play a key role. Perhaps the strike zone is called tighter than it used to be but catchers know which umps have certain tendencies to call the high strike, low strike ,inside and outside corners and they roll with it and hope the pitcher can take advantage of it.

 

I was listening to LaTroy Hawkins tell a story on MLBN where he said to Greg Maddox ," You know those pitches aren't strikes don't you " ? and Maddux replied along the lines of I can't help it if I can hit that spot 8 out of 10 times and you can do it only 4. Meaning if you can do it that consistently the ump will give it to you.

 

Another thing I was watching about Livan and Orlando Hernandez defection from Cuba and when Livan was pitching in the ALCS or World Series and the ump behind the plate was calling everything away off the plate a strike. So Charles Johnson ,the catcher ,goes out to the mound and says to Livan, "I think we just need to stay away away away." Livan agrees and ends up with 15K's .That kind of thing has a domino effect. Hitters see it being called a strike and they end up saying "well now I have to swing at that pitch" and when the pitcher gets them swinging at it he goes even further outside. Being an intelligent pitcher is an art form that involves the catcher and the ump and the pitchers ability to take advantage of his reputation and change a plan when the circumstances call for it.

Yes, the key point is the it only works consistently with the really good pitchers because they are the ones that can consistently hits those spots. The pitcher and catcher need to execute that plan not just know what the ump calls.

[CB2.0]

Great article! I wish more people would learn to write baseball articles with a clear depiction of the logic and thought process that goes toward the conclusions drawn.

 

Well done.

[Eminor3rd]

Great stuff. Very well done.

 

BTW, that was a really good read, eminor.

 

Agree with everyone else, well done Eminor. You provided some very good insight to the potential upgrades as well as downgrades.

 

Very comprehensive piece. Love how you pointed out how the defensive values are so weird and drawing too many conclusions about them is subjective. You didn't just pick a side you took the time to point out every angle. Very well written also . Must have proof read it thoroughly.

 

Agree 100%. Excellent analysis.

 

Great article! I wish more people would learn to write baseball articles with a clear depiction of the logic and thought process that goes toward the conclusions drawn.

 

Well done.

 

Thanks!

[GGajewski18]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-beginni...-pitch-framing/

 

Article on pitch framing.

[OmarComing25]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-beginni...-pitch-framing/

 

Article on pitch framing.

Interesting article, thanks for the link. I don't think there's been something I've changed my mind on so many times like I have on pitch framing. I really don't know where to stand.

 

A couple comments in that article stood out to me. First, is there data on which umpires are more susceptible to pitch framing? That'd be interesting to see. Second, "I’d like to see swing rate on borderline pitches vs known pitch framers each year. Don’t forget hitters adapt too." That'd be very cool to see too, it'd be interesting to know if hitters change their approach at all with a known pitch framer behind the plate.

[Princess Dye]

catcher position projected to be 3 WAR here

 

https://twitter.com/cistulli/status/692087588992057344

[Eminor3rd]

catcher position projected to be 3 WAR here

 

https://twitter.com/cistulli/status/692087588992057344

 

That would be a boon, no doubt.