OF Options

[LDF]

How would that make them look better to fans? Putting that out there seems like it has way more downside than upside.

in my opinion to convince the fans that they were putting the product out in the field and then sell tickets, sell season tickets.

[BlackSox13]

Frazier replaces Gillaspie, Olt and Beckham.

 

Lawrie replaces Sanchez and Micah.

 

Avila/Navarro replaces Soto and Magic Glasses.

 

Rollins/Saladino replaces a well respected but aging Alexei.

 

Latos was added for some ratation depth ( we'll see how the knee holds up).

 

Jones is back and 100%

 

Trying times for Sox fans everywhere!

[GreenSox]

Any offseason in which the Sox acquired basically an entire new infield to go along with their superstar 1b and one of the best 3B in all of baseball doesn't to me seem "frustrating".

It is frustrating because this is the exact same approach Ken Williams has taken for years and it has repeatedly failed. He moves young players for veterans; but leaves significant holes, such that the team is a not real contender (without injuries the team is a marginal contender, as constructed). The org. remains outrageously insular and insider.

He says he has a volkswagen budget. Well if that's your budget, you need to use the farm more, and he refuses to do that.

 

And if they really couldn't afford the modest Fowler* salary, then they positively are going on the cheap and cutting the budget and they have to use the farm.

 

*And yes I didn't them to sign Fowler because I'm hoping they can do gangbusters in the draft and because, frankly, I don't think this team contends with him anyway and because i think there's a decent chance Avi becomes competent and the alternative would have been to sell him for dimes on the dollar.

Edited February 24, 2016 by GreenSox

[LDF]

Frazier replaces Gillaspie, Olt and Beckham.

 

Lawrie replaces Sanchez and Micah.

 

Avila/Navarro replaces Soto and Magic Glasses.

 

Rollins/Saladino replaces a well respected but aging Alexei.

 

Latos was added for some ratation depth ( we'll see how the knee holds up).

 

Jones is back and 100%

 

Trying times for Sox fans everywhere!

and improve on players they, the FO acquired to help the team. i can see one player, failing, but we are talking, pretty much a majority of the team. the team is in this state b/c of whom???

 

and the job is not done. b/c it would cost a little more money.

[sammy esposito]

Frazier replaces Gillaspie, Olt and Beckham.

 

Lawrie replaces Sanchez and Micah.

 

Avila/Navarro replaces Soto and Magic Glasses.

 

Rollins/Saladino replaces a well respected but aging Alexei.

 

Latos was added for some ratation depth ( we'll see how the knee holds up).

 

Jones is back and 100%

 

Trying times for Sox fans everywhere!

While I don't know too much about Frazier he has played the outfield but I guess that could be weighed against how well he plays 3rd but if our infielders Saladino and Sanchez hit perhaps Todd could play in right field a little,

 

[Saufley]

Ventura...absolutely

 

You're right. I forgot all about him. If Kenny needs a sacrificial lamb he'll do.

[southsider2k5]

Ventura...absolutely

 

His replacement is here, and already getting high praise from players this spring.

[Chicago White Sox]

Frazier replaces Gillaspie, Olt and Beckham.

 

Lawrie replaces Sanchez and Micah.

 

Avila/Navarro replaces Soto and Magic Glasses.

 

Rollins/Saladino replaces a well respected but aging Alexei.

 

Latos was added for some ratation depth ( we'll see how the knee holds up).

 

Jones is back and 100%

 

Trying times for Sox fans everywhere!

Ugh, I hate posts like this. We're coming off a poor season with a position player group who was historically bad and you're actually ripping fans that aren't satisfied with the addition of one impact player and two other solid positional upgrades. No doubt we're better, but the question is are we good enough to be legit contenders? The AL Central is going to be incredibly competitive next year and it is easily could come down to a game or two. Starting both Avi Garcia & Adam LaRoche in the same lineup without anyone pushing them for playing time is a recipe for disaster, especially when you consider how flush with OF talent the market was.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the front office didn't have the means to pull off a complete offseason, then they should have gone in a different direction and took advantage of the insane pitching prices. Right now, the Sox have half-assed and I don't get why you constantly applaud them for that. Hopefully they add another OF in the next few weeks and make this debate pointless, but until then let's stop ripping Sox fans who aren't simply happy with "better" than last year.

[ChiSox59]

It is frustrating because this is the exact same approach Ken Williams has taken for years and it has repeatedly failed. He moves young players for veterans; but leaves significant holes, such that the team is a not real contender (without injuries the team is a marginal contender, as constructed). The org. remains outrageously insular and insider.

He says he has a volkswagen budget. Well if that's your budget, you need to use the farm more, and he refuses to do that.

 

And if they really couldn't afford the modest Fowler* salary, then they positively are going on the cheap and cutting the budget and they have to use the farm.

 

*And yes I didn't them to sign Fowler because I'm hoping they can do gangbusters in the draft and because, frankly, I don't think this team contends with him anyway and because i think there's a decent chance Avi becomes competent and the alternative would have been to sell him for dimes on the dollar.

 

And those young players KW gave up almost never amounted to anything at all. And I couldn't be less concerned about the prospects we gave up This summer.

 

I'm not a mediocre young player lover like you.

[Dick Allen]

And those young players KW gave up almost never amounted to anything at all. And I couldn't be less concerned about the prospects we gave up This summer.

 

I'm not a mediocre young player lover like you.

I have never understood the constant bashing of KW for trading prospects. Blasting him for inability to develop would make sense, but an All Star team of the prospects he traded away probably couldn't win 40 games in a season.

[BlackSox13]

Ugh, I hate posts like this. We're coming off a poor season with a position player group who was historically bad and you're actually ripping fans that aren't satisfied with the addition of one impact player and two other solid positional upgrades. No doubt we're better, but the question is are we good enough to be legit contenders? The AL Central is going to be incredibly competitive next year and it is easily could come down to a game or two. Starting both Avi Garcia & Adam LaRoche in the same lineup without anyone pushing them for playing time is a recipe for disaster, especially when you consider how flush with OF talent the market was.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the front office didn't have the means to pull off a complete offseason, then they should have gone in a different direction and took advantage of the insane pitching prices. Right now, the Sox have half-assed and I don't get why you constantly applaud them for that. Hopefully they add another OF in the next few weeks and make this debate pointless, but until then let's stop ripping Sox fans who aren't simply happy with "better" than last year.

Like everyone else, I would like to see Avi replaced but I won't let that one singular thing out-weigh the positive things that happened this off season.

 

If you hate posts like the one you quoted, why did you bother responding to it? Don't like what you see, then simply skip over it and move on. If that does not work for you, then might I suggest the ignore button? Surely, I will not give a toss. Go White Sox!

[MDWhiteSoxFan]

Ugh, I hate posts like this. We're coming off a poor season with a position player group who was historically bad and you're actually ripping fans that aren't satisfied with the addition of one impact player and two other solid positional upgrades. No doubt we're better, but the question is are we good enough to be legit contenders? The AL Central is going to be incredibly competitive next year and it is easily could come down to a game or two. Starting both Avi Garcia & Adam LaRoche in the same lineup without anyone pushing them for playing time is a recipe for disaster, especially when you consider how flush with OF talent the market was.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the front office didn't have the means to pull off a complete offseason, then they should have gone in a different direction and took advantage of the insane pitching prices. Right now, the Sox have half-assed and I don't get why you constantly applaud them for that. Hopefully they add another OF in the next few weeks and make this debate pointless, but until then let's stop ripping Sox fans who aren't simply happy with "better" than last year.

 

 

I get what you're saying, but why can't people be happy with the huge upgrades he pointed out? We got a top talent at 3rd to upgrade a historically bad black hole from last season. An upgrade at 2nd over again a historically bad black hole last season. I will say not sure if we upgraded at SS. Seems we have defensively and potential offensively depending who wins the job. Yes only one of those additions are all star caliber but the additions to quality from what we had are humongous. We've upgraded 3-4 positions in 1 off season, that's huge. Is signing another solid positional upgrade going to put us over the top to be favorites? Maybe but not with what is left. These Sox fans that are upset with not signing Cespedes/Upton/Gordon are likely the same fans that were happy with the signings from last year who now hate the front office because they all flopped. Granted Gordon has less of a chance to flop as he knows the division but I just never felt he was leaving KC. Cespedes is an extremely talented yet streaky player, not sure 27 million this year is worth it plus I don't think he wanted to leave NY. He found his greatest success there plus a huge market. Upton apparently had no interest in joining us. I do wish they signed Fowler especially for 11 mil a year, but then again I only wanted them to sign him after I found out how cheap he did sign for. I am still happy with the off season, Rome wasn't built in a day. I will say if come mid year we trade for an OF and give up Anderson, Fulmer, Adams I will be furious. I still hope they sign Jackson, to at least push Avi if not push him to DH platoon.

[BlackSox13]

and improve on players they, the FO acquired to help the team. i can see one player, failing, but we are talking, pretty much a majority of the team. the team is in this state b/c of whom???

 

and the job is not done. b/c it would cost a little more money.

Honestly, I don't know what else to say that we haven't already discussed. I'm looking ahead to the '16 season and not living in the past or dwelling on off season Twitter/sports writer speculations and rumors. Sure, I could allow myself to get disgruntled over it but what good can possibly come from that? It's circumstances beyond my control, man. I prefer to focus on the number of improvements that were made instead of the one that did not happen, yet.

 

Baseball is #1 to me and literally the only sport I follow so after a long winter devoid of baseball, I'm happy as f*** ST has finally arrived! I'm looking forward to this season.

 

 

[Jerksticks]

I have never understood the constant bashing of KW for trading prospects. Blasting him for inability to develop would make sense, but an All Star team of the prospects he traded away probably couldn't win 40 games in a season.

They'll never admit this DA. Never. It doesn't fit their argument. Or you'll hear "but but but Gio Gonzalez!" Most have cooled off on the Daniel Hudson chip for bashing, rightfully so. As well as Chris Carter. KW & RH don't really lose trades but why give them credit.

[caulfield12]

These Sox fans that are upset with not signing Cespedes/Upton/Gordon are likely the same fans that were happy with the signings from last year who now hate the front office because they all flopped.

 

To me, it's more the narrative throughout last off-season that none of those moves were going to impact our ability to sign players for 2016.

 

And it's not even whiffing on Cabrera and LaRoche, it was those smaller deals like Duke and Bonifacio and even Beckham that would now be quite useful in being able to afford the likes of Austin Jackson. And not trading Samardzija at the deadline in a way forced Hahn's hand to hold onto that pick, at least that's one of the main justifications or rationalizations now.

 

At this point, we're not even able to afford "second tier" options like Fowler, Jackson, Span, Desmond...so we keep bouncing back and forth and are so afraid to commit and make one huge mistake with an Upton or Gordon that we're ending up with much higher bust rates on the second and third tier guys. This isn't just a single year complaint, either, it's been standard operating procedure for the White Sox for many years, with the exceptions of Belle, Abreu, Dunn and Robertson being the only "top tier" players we've signed as FA's.

 

While all of our moves look good in isolation (especially Rollins and Latos), we would need a LOT of things to go right in order to make the playoffs and anomalously good health again.

 

 

 

http://www.redreporter.com/2016/2/24/11105...-the-2016-white

 

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2016/2/16/1101...0975.1456422238

Pirates/White Sox/DBacks three most confusing teams

 

In retrospect, why were we all so excited about the offseason the White Sox had last year? They got a closer, a 35-year-old DH and an aging PED bust, and because we were all hopped up and freebasing transactions, it was easy to mistake activity for effectiveness. And those three players are still key components of the 2016 White Sox roster. Last year, Melky Cabrera, Adam LaRoche and David Robertson combined to make $35 million. They also combined for a win over replacement, according to Baseball-Reference. That's a brutal combination, and everyone's a year older.

 

Those three players might have been a part of the problem, but they weren't the reason the White Sox were so disappointing, Crumbling defense, especially in the infield, combined with hundreds and hundreds of at-bats given to low-upside young players, hamstrung the White Sox far more than the offseason mini-spending spree helped. That's why this offseason, the team addressed the most immediate, unmistakable concerns.

Edited February 25, 2016 by caulfield12

[LDF]

I get what you're saying, but why can't people be happy with the huge upgrades he pointed out? We got a top talent at 3rd to upgrade a historically bad black hole from last season. An upgrade at 2nd over again a historically bad black hole last season. I will say not sure if we upgraded at SS. Seems we have defensively and potential offensively depending who wins the job. Yes only one of those additions are all star caliber but the additions to quality from what we had are humongous. We've upgraded 3-4 positions in 1 off season, that's huge. Is signing another solid positional upgrade going to put us over the top to be favorites? Maybe but not with what is left. These Sox fans that are upset with not signing Cespedes/Upton/Gordon are likely the same fans that were happy with the signings from last year who now hate the front office because they all flopped. Granted Gordon has less of a chance to flop as he knows the division but I just never felt he was leaving KC. Cespedes is an extremely talented yet streaky player, not sure 27 million this year is worth it plus I don't think he wanted to leave NY. He found his greatest success there plus a huge market. Upton apparently had no interest in joining us. I do wish they signed Fowler especially for 11 mil a year, but then again I only wanted them to sign him after I found out how cheap he did sign for. I am still happy with the off season, Rome wasn't built in a day. I will say if come mid year we trade for an OF and give up Anderson, Fulmer, Adams I will be furious. I still hope they sign Jackson, to at least push Avi if not push him to DH platoon.

 

i will speak for myself, i look at the team at the beginning of the season, then i really never thought the FO will fix this many positions and still be in the range of 125-128 mil +/-.

 

what i also knows that this team players comes with an expiration date, how long can players keep playing in their prime??

 

the other part is that the job is not finished b/c of money, money that the sox owners do have and are not going that little extra, esp when 28 mil+/- will be coming off the books. then how to replace some of those players? thru the minor league teams, there too are some heavy hopes on a couple of players to improve and if not, no backup players to fall back on, if that player does not produce or ready to produce.

 

1 of'er is needed, and yeah it would be nice if it was fowlers but there are other options, maybe not as appealing as fowlers, but anyone will be better than Avi in the OF and i am talking about his defense.

 

the expiration date.... the clock is ticking.

Edited February 25, 2016 by LDF

[LDF]

Honestly, I don't know what else to say that we haven't already discussed. I'm looking ahead to the '16 season and not living in the past or dwelling on off season Twitter/sports writer speculations and rumors. Sure, I could allow myself to get disgruntled over it but what good can possibly come from that? It's circumstances beyond my control, man. I prefer to focus on the number of improvements that were made instead of the one that did not happen, yet.

 

Baseball is #1 to me and literally the only sport I follow so after a long winter devoid of baseball, I'm happy as f*** ST has finally arrived! I'm looking forward to this season.

 

ahhh i am just pissy, when the season starts, i will shut up. i will hope with the rest, that the sox will the best season. but baseball fans, sox fans, i feel as they will never be happy, as long as sox baseball is being discussed.

 

~~~ edit . but passionate sox fans needs a area to vent.

Edited February 25, 2016 by LDF

[LDF]

They'll never admit this DA. Never. It doesn't fit their argument. Or you'll hear "but but but Gio Gonzalez!" Most have cooled off on the Daniel Hudson chip for bashing, rightfully so. As well as Chris Carter. KW & RH don't really lose trades but why give them credit.

 

everything is judge in the moment, it is the hindsight that prove or disproves on who is right.

 

so far as RH, he had some bumpy roads, but the jury is still out on the trades and again hindsight.

 

the draft is where he is doing great and that is at the present as well.

Edited February 25, 2016 by LDF

[LDF]

These Sox fans that are upset with not signing Cespedes/Upton/Gordon are likely the same fans that were happy with the signings from last year who now hate the front office because they all flopped.

 

To me, it's more the narrative throughout last off-season that none of those moves were going to impact our ability to sign players for 2016.

 

And it's not even whiffing on Cabrera and LaRoche, it was those smaller deals like Duke and Bonifacio and even Beckham that would now be quite useful in being able to afford the likes of Austin Jackson. And not trading Samardzija at the deadline in a way forced Hahn's hand to hold onto that pick, at least that's one of the main justifications or rationalizations now.

 

At this point, we're not even able to afford "second tier" options like Fowler, Jackson, Span, Desmond...so we keep bouncing back and forth and are so afraid to commit and make one huge mistake with an Upton or Gordon that we're ending up with much higher bust rates on the second and third tier guys. This isn't just a single year complaint, either, it's been standard operating procedure for the White Sox for many years, with the exceptions of Belle, Abreu, Dunn and Robertson being the only "top tier" players we've signed as FA's.

 

While all of our moves look good in isolation (especially Rollins and Latos), we would need a LOT of things to go right in order to make the playoffs and anomalously good health again.

 

 

 

http://www.redreporter.com/2016/2/24/11105...-the-2016-white

 

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2016/2/16/1101...0975.1456422238

Pirates/White Sox/DBacks three most confusing teams

 

i have to ask this question, are there really posters out there in soxtalk that was upset on the top 3 not signing with the sox???

 

i am not trying to rant or anything, i just didn't see it.

[GreenSox]

And those young players KW gave up almost never amounted to anything at all. And I couldn't be less concerned about the prospects we gave up This summer.

 

I'm not a mediocre young player lover like you

 

You realize that Semien had nearly 3 times the WAR that Lawrie had, don't you?

You realize that Semien had a higher OPS than Melky, don't you?

You do realize that Phegley would have had the 3rd highest OPS on this team (behind Eaton and Abreu) don't you?

 

How many playoff appearances has Kenny Williams delivered with his "proven veterans"?

 

So don't lecture me about mediocrity, sonny.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

Marcus Semien is terrible defensively and made lots of errors...being 6th in WAR for qualified MLB shortstops is meaningless. Edited February 25, 2016 by caulfield12

[LDF]

Marcus Semien is terrible defensively and made lots of errors...being 6th in WAR for qualified MLB shortstops is meaningless.

 

but if he wasn't traded, he would be manning 2b. i wonder how he would have done there.

[GreenSox]

but if he wasn't traded, he would be manning 2b. i wonder how he would have done there.

I think caufield was being sardonic re the prolific apologetics re that ridiculous trade.

 

And you're right, he was playing out of position.

 

 

[BlackSox13]

ahhh i am just pissy, when the season starts, i will shut up. i will hope with the rest, that the sox will the best season. but baseball fans, sox fans, i feel as they will never be happy, as long as sox baseball is being discussed.

 

~~~ edit . but passionate sox fans needs a area to vent.

I understand the frustration but then I look around the league at moves other teams have made that failed and realise it's not just the White Sox. For example, look at the Yankees, Boston and the Dodgers and the contracts they are stuck with, the Yanks especially. I'd bet the Yanks would love to go back in time and not sign a few players.

 

At one point during the winter, I had read an article that speculated the Yanks would like to move Ellsbury to try and sign one of the big four. So I went and looked Ellsbury up on BR and FG to see if there could be a potential fit in a trade between the Sox and Yanks. I ame to the conclusion of, "f*** that", really fast! His numbers are steadily declining while under contract through 2020 and making 21M+ per season. Nope, the Yanks can have that contract and looking at that made me feel better about the contracts of LaRoche and Melky. There's also CC, Tex and ARod to go with Ellsbury. I much prefer the White Sox FO approach to free agents than the Yankees and some other teams. IMHO, the Yanks have proven that sometimes it's better to not sign that top flight FA rather than be saddled with a lengthy and costly contract.

[Whisox05]

I understand the frustration but then I look around the league at moves other teams have made that failed and realise it's not just the White Sox. For example, look at the Yankees, Boston and the Dodgers and the contracts they are stuck with, the Yanks especially. I'd bet the Yanks would love to go back in time and not sign a few players.

 

At one point during the winter, I had read an article that speculated the Yanks would like to move Ellsbury to try and sign one of the big four. So I went and looked Ellsbury up on BR and FG to see if there could be a potential fit in a trade between the Sox and Yanks. I ame to the conclusion of, "f*** that", really fast! His numbers are steadily declining while under contract through 2020 and making 21M+ per season. Nope, the Yanks can have that contract and looking at that made me feel better about the contracts of LaRoche and Melky. There's also CC, Tex and ARod to go with Ellsbury. I much prefer the White Sox FO approach to free agents than the Yankees and some other teams. IMHO, the Yanks have proven that sometimes it's better to not sign that top flight FA rather than be saddled with a lengthy and costly contract.

 

 

But the issue is Sox don't want to give out the big contract or length to get the big free agent they need but at the same time can't develop the big time player either. They are stuck in the middle and it's eventually going to cost them if they don't make the playoffs and end up having to trade sale and probably Abreu .