OF Options

[BlackSox13]

But the issue is Sox don't want to give out the big contract or length to get the big free agent they need but at the same time can't develop the big time player either. They are stuck in the middle and it's eventually going to cost them if they don't make the playoffs and end up having to trade sale and probably Abreu .

I hear ya and I don't envy Hahn right now because he and KW are in a tough spot. The owners set the budget and its Hahn and KW 's jobs to work within that budget. What makes their jobs more difficult is that JR is 80 and wants to see another winner so, imo, that's why we keep hearing the " re-tooling" and "re-building on the fly" stuff from Hahn and KW. We've been hearing it for some years now. I don't blame JR for wanting to see another winner before he goes but his desire to win again and his set budget do make things challenging and pretty much rule out an all out re-build. But in fairness to the owners, Hahn and KW have taken some gambles that backfired on them. In all, the entire organization as a whole is responsible for the shape they are in, owners/management/players alike.

 

I give the Sox credit though. They have been better at scouting and drafting the last few years and we're starting to see some signs of life in the minors, although alot of that talent is at AA and below. But, we do have Anderson, Fulmer and May appearing on the horizon so there's some hope. Plus, I think the Dodgers wanting Montas, Micah and Thompson from the Frazier trade says something about those players. Obviously the Dodgers felt there was some genuine talent in that mix to help the Sox acquire Frazier from the Reds and the Dodgers have been pretty good on evaluating young talent by the looks of their farm. To me, Micah was nothing special but Thompson should at least make a solid 4th OF and Montas should turn into a good reliever/closer if things don't work out for him as a SP. So, in all fairness, the Sox have been developing players in recent years and were seeing bits and pieces of it.

 

 

[dmbjeff]

They went foreclosure house shopping. Hoping to find an upscale 6 bedroom house for the cost of a 1 bedroom crappy condo. They figured, one of these will fall in to our lap. Until they didn't.

 

Light em up:

 

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 4m4 minutes ago Scottsdale, AZ

More KW: "But you have to ask how much the Ferrari costs. We had a lot of great Ferrari ideas, let’s put it that way.”

 

 

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 4m4 minutes ago Scottsdale, AZ

More KW: "It’s like going down to the Ferrari dealership when you can only afford a Volkswagen. It kind of is what it is in some cases...

 

 

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 5m5 minutes ago Scottsdale, AZ

Ken Williams on CWS offseason pursuits: "Listen, we always check in on everyone that is of potential interest. But in some cases …

 

[LDF]

I hear ya and I don't envy Hahn right now because he and KW are in a tough spot. The owners set the budget and its Hahn and KW 's jobs to work within that budget. What makes their jobs more difficult is that JR is 80 and wants to see another winner so, imo, that's why we keep hearing the " re-tooling" and "re-building on the fly" stuff from Hahn and KW. We've been hearing it for some years now. I don't blame JR for wanting to see another winner before he goes but his desire to win again and his set budget do make things challenging and pretty much rule out an all out re-build. But in fairness to the owners, Hahn and KW have taken some gambles that backfired on them. In all, the entire organization as a whole is responsible for the shape they are in, owners/management/players alike.

 

I give the Sox credit though. They have been better at scouting and drafting the last few years and we're starting to see some signs of life in the minors, although alot of that talent is at AA and below. But, we do have Anderson, Fulmer and May appearing on the horizon so there's some hope. Plus, I think the Dodgers wanting Montas, Micah and Thompson from the Frazier trade says something about those players. Obviously the Dodgers felt there was some genuine talent in that mix to help the Sox acquire Frazier from the Reds and the Dodgers have been pretty good on evaluating young talent by the looks of their farm. To me, Micah was nothing special but Thompson should at least make a solid 4th OF and Montas should turn into a good reliever/closer if things don't work out for him as a SP. So, in all fairness, the Sox have been developing players in recent years and were seeing bits and pieces of it.

 

that first paragraph is among the best counter this week ..... a really great job.

 

i like to mention though, if as you said, JR is 80 and wants another WS, it would behooves the owners to allow the GM the flexibility to go out and fix this team, get the necessary pieces to make a run for the playoff. (you are right on jr age and req)

Edited February 25, 2016 by LDF

[LDF]

I think caufield was being sardonic re the prolific apologetics re that ridiculous trade.

 

And you're right, he was playing out of position.

many thanks for that head up.

 

humor really goes over my head.

[LDF]

I understand the frustration but then I look around the league at moves other teams have made that failed and realise it's not just the White Sox. For example, look at the Yankees, Boston and the Dodgers and the contracts they are stuck with, the Yanks especially. I'd bet the Yanks would love to go back in time and not sign a few players.

 

At one point during the winter, I had read an article that speculated the Yanks would like to move Ellsbury to try and sign one of the big four. So I went and looked Ellsbury up on BR and FG to see if there could be a potential fit in a trade between the Sox and Yanks. I ame to the conclusion of, "f*** that", really fast! His numbers are steadily declining while under contract through 2020 and making 21M+ per season. Nope, the Yanks can have that contract and looking at that made me feel better about the contracts of LaRoche and Melky. There's also CC, Tex and ARod to go with Ellsbury. I much prefer the White Sox FO approach to free agents than the Yankees and some other teams. IMHO, the Yanks have proven that sometimes it's better to not sign that top flight FA rather than be saddled with a lengthy and costly contract.

 

yeah, i agree with you 100%, teams with a big wallet can't buy the championship, just buy getting every FA they want. Bos of late, Yank, Dodger. but i always maintain that a smart GM with a game plan and pick and choose the right player may pull this off.

 

however, back to the sox, the sox lineup, as of last yr, needed pieces desperately. mostly in order to compete but to bring the fans out. they really needed to fix the front end of the team, the mlb team via fa's, while fixing the back end, the minor league team. the back end is the future, several yrs down the road. these players will be 2+yrs away.

 

so as i have said, this is a huge job to do, then again, they are expected to do this on a penny budget, with 28+ mil coming of the book. the owners need to pony up, just 1 more player.

Edited February 25, 2016 by LDF

[shysocks]

Ugh, I hate posts like this. We're coming off a poor season with a position player group who was historically bad and you're actually ripping fans that aren't satisfied with the addition of one impact player and two other solid positional upgrades. No doubt we're better, but the question is are we good enough to be legit contenders? The AL Central is going to be incredibly competitive next year and it is easily could come down to a game or two. Starting both Avi Garcia & Adam LaRoche in the same lineup without anyone pushing them for playing time is a recipe for disaster, especially when you consider how flush with OF talent the market was.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the front office didn't have the means to pull off a complete offseason, then they should have gone in a different direction and took advantage of the insane pitching prices. Right now, the Sox have half-assed and I don't get why you constantly applaud them for that. Hopefully they add another OF in the next few weeks and make this debate pointless, but until then let's stop ripping Sox fans who aren't simply happy with "better" than last year.

Just want to call attention to this post because it perfectly, succinctly summarizes everything I think about the off-season. I couldn't agree more.

[BlackSox13]

that first paragraph is among the best counter this week ..... a really great job.

 

i like to mention though, if as you said, JR is 80 and wants another WS, it would behooves the owners to allow the GM the flexibility to go out and fix this team, get the necessary pieces to make a run for the playoff. (you are right on jr age and req)

I agree that if the Sox want to win, having more budget to work with would make the jobs of KW and Hahn much easier. But for me, that's where it ends. I don't know the owners finances and I don't feel it would be right for me to say they have the money and are unwilling to spend it because I'm just a fan and don't work in the FO. Knowing JR wants another winner, I'd like to think that if the money was indeed available, it would be spent to help build another winner. Another possibility is that the money is there but wasn't enough to pry Cespedes and Gordon from their desire to stay with their former teams. As for Fowler, not sure what to think other than maybe the FO doesn't feel the end justifies the means, iow, Fowler isn't worth what he got when factoring in the contract, money and comp pick. Looking at Fowler's average to sub-par defense combined with only hitting .228 against RHP last season makes me wonder if the Sox dodged a bullet on this one. Those could be reasons why the Sox backed away from Fowler. As a fan, all I can do is guess/speculate as to why things didn't happen for the Sox this winter. Maybe at some point, KW and Hahn will provide more insight.

 

Nevertheless, I still think the Sox are looking for an outfielder and still believe it's possible a trade with one of Tampa or Houston could still happen. Both of them have too many outfielders and the Sox have bullpen depth so there's a potential fit. It's not April 4th just yet.

Edited February 25, 2016 by BlackSox13

[ChiSox59]

You realize that Semien had nearly 3 times the WAR that Lawrie had, don't you?

You realize that Semien had a higher OPS than Melky, don't you?

You do realize that Phegley would have had the 3rd highest OPS on this team (behind Eaton and Abreu) don't you?

 

How many playoff appearances has Kenny Williams delivered with his "proven veterans"?

 

So don't lecture me about mediocrity, sonny.

 

KW didn't trade Semien. Hahn did.

 

Semien is a nice player and one I'd like to have back. But he wouldn't be playing SS for the White Sox. He'd be a nice offensive 2B with a below average glove - something the Sox thought they had in Johnson, who they clearly liked more, with further insurance in Sanchez. The Sox really need to improve IF defense and Semien is not the answer to their problems, but he'd be a nice guy to have around.

 

Josh Phegley blows and isn't even remotely on my radar.

[BlackSox13]

yeah, i agree with you 100%, teams with a big wallet can't buy the championship, just buy getting every FA they want. Bos of late, Yank, Dodger. but i always maintain that a smart GM with a game plan and pick and choose the right player may pull this off.

 

however, back to the sox, the sox lineup, as of last yr, needed pieces desperately. mostly in order to compete but to bring the fans out. they really needed to fix the front end of the team, the mlb team via fa's, while fixing the back end, the minor league team. the back end is the future, several yrs down the road. these players will be 2+yrs away.

 

so as i have said, this is a huge job to do, then again, they are expected to do this on a penny budget, with 28+ mil coming of the book. the owners need to pony up, just 1 more player.

But that 28M coming off the books won't help until after the '16 season has ended and Danks/LaRoche are gone. Another thing to consider is that about half of that money will go right back into the current payroll to cover raises and arbitration for the remaining players on the roster so its not like the Sox will have 28M to spent on free agency.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I agree that if the Sox want to win, having more budget to work with would make the jobs of KW and Hahn much easier. But for me, that's where it ends. I don't know the owners finances and I don't feel it would be right for me to say they have the money and are unwilling to spend it because I'm just a fan and don't work in the FO. Knowing JR wants another winner, I'd like to think that if the money was indeed available, it would be spent to help build another winner. Another possibility is that the money is there but wasn't enough to pry Cespedes and Gordon from their desire to stay with their former teams. As for Fowler, not sure what to think other than maybe the FO doesn't feel the end justifies the means, iow, Fowler isn't worth what he got when factoring in the contract, money and comp pick. Looking at Fowler's average to sub-par defense combined with only hitting .228 against RHP last season makes me wonder if the Sox dodged a bullet on this one. Those could be reasons why the Sox backed away from Fowler. As a fan, all I can do is guess/speculate as to why things didn't happen for the Sox this winter. Maybe at some point, KW and Hahn will provide more insight.

 

Nevertheless, I still think the Sox are looking for an outfielder and still believe it's possible a trade with one of Tampa or Houston could still happen. Both of them have too many outfielders and the Sox have bullpen depth so there's a potential fit. It's not April 4th just yet.

 

 

This is a good post. I agree with all of it.

[ChiSox59]

It is frustrating because this is the exact same approach Ken Williams has taken for years and it has repeatedly failed. He moves young players for veterans; but leaves significant holes, such that the team is a not real contender (without injuries the team is a marginal contender, as constructed). The org. remains outrageously insular and insider.

He says he has a volkswagen budget. Well if that's your budget, you need to use the farm more, and he refuses to do that.

 

And if they really couldn't afford the modest Fowler* salary, then they positively are going on the cheap and cutting the budget and they have to use the farm.

 

*And yes I didn't them to sign Fowler because I'm hoping they can do gangbusters in the draft and because, frankly, I don't think this team contends with him anyway and because i think there's a decent chance Avi becomes competent and the alternative would have been to sell him for dimes on the dollar.

 

They use the farm plenty. Just not always the way you want them to. Again, besides Semien (hardly a proven asset) and Gio years ago, what prospects/young players have the Sox traded that blew up? No one. And I am not ready to anoint Semien anything more than an average major leaguer on a whole at this point.

 

I don't have a problem with mixing in young talent every year, and I feel the sox do that just fine. Maybe not as much on the offensive side of things, and obviously we'd all like that to change (I think they're working on it), but that is more a player development/drafting issue than it has been a failing to give young players an opportunity issue. They haven't had many offensive pieces worthy of giving an opportunity to.

 

I personally like the way the Sox run their team. No, it hasn't worked well recently. But they're working on diversifying they way they go about things. Its not all about trading young players for veterans and signing FAs. They have a nice mix of home grown talent through the draft, trade acquisitions, international FAs and regular FAs. They're spending more internationally in recent years, have adjusted their focus on draft day away from safe picks and going for more upside guys, they're drafting more position players.

 

I want my team to be competitive every year - and I appreciate that they try. It hasn't work much lately, but I personally think the Sox are in a pretty good spot right now and for the next 4 seasons. I am excited, and don't see the need to b**** about what could have been with the Semiens, Phegleys, Ravelos, Thompsons, Johnsons, Wendelkens of the world who are unlikely to amount to anything better than league average players at best.

Edited February 25, 2016 by ChiSox59

[Dunt]

Coghlan would've been a nice addition for virtually no cost

[GGajewski18]

Coghlan would've been a nice addition for virtually no cost

 

Exactly what I was thinking. Ugh

[GreenSox]

Coghlan would've been a nice addition for virtually no cost

Kind of explains why they didn't want Fowler; similar profile player. They must want yet another NL slugger. Look for cargo In July, which will cost an arm and a leg. Decent OBP and 16 homers out of the 2 hole certainly would help this team a lot.

 

But goodness was the price low.

Edited February 25, 2016 by GreenSox

[shysocks]

How is our outfield the way it is right now? Everybody zoom out, look at this offseason, and tell me how this is possible. It's preposterous.

 

[fathom]

I bet coghlan trade means Austin Jackson back to Cubs

[Princess Dye]

Josh Reddick - free agent in 2017. The A's wont hesitate to move a guy before that FA year

Edited February 25, 2016 by Jose Paniagua

[flavum]

Hahn was just on ESPN1000. They expect to add before opening day.

 

Cargo? Bruce? Venable? Jackson?

 

Something will happen. It might not be a popular move, but I don't think they're done.

[Princess Dye]

https://twitter.com/thekapman/status/702906516777656321

 

Sounds trade-y.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Jose Paniagua

[GGajewski18]

Hahn was just on ESPN1000. They expect to add before opening day.

 

Cargo? Bruce? Venable? Jackson?

 

Something will happen. It might not be a popular move, but I don't think they're done.

 

Can you get an exact quote? If not, thanks for the comment. I just hope they still add an OFer, and split DH between Avi and LaRoche.

[GreenSox]

Josh Reddick - free agent in 2017. The A's wont hesitate to move a guy before that FA year

And Williams and Hahn are the perfect duet to take the bait

[daggins]

With Coghlin to the A's I'm thinking Reddick gunna moooo to the southside

[Y2Jimmy0]

Josh Reddick - free agent in 2017. The A's wont hesitate to move a guy before that FA year

 

 

The A's have Reddick, Burns, Crisp, Canha, Fuld, Coghlan, and Khris Davis.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

I wouldn't mind Reddick, even as a rental.

 

Worst case scenario is that the Sox send a fringe prospect or two to the A's and get the compensation pick back next year when he leaves.

Edited February 25, 2016 by ChiSoxFanMike

[cabiness42]

With Coghlin to the A's I'm thinking Reddick gunna moooo to the southside

 

What do Sox have that Oakland would want?