Avi Garcia is #1

[Harry Chappas]

The bat is not the problem with him actually.

 

The guy is a terrible fielder and somehow the the dumbest base runner I have ever seen.

 

Those inabilities on the baseball field carry over to the batter's box where he has no ability to recognize a pitch, despite Hawk thinking he was the greatest hitter of all time at doing something...I think it was hitting a pitch you should never swing at and hitting it to RF.

 

 

This was a massive failure by White Sox scouting.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

He's going to have to hit at a well above average rate to make us forget the absolutely abysmal defense we get from him.

Nothing is ever impossible with a good book.

 

[Vance Law]

Yes, I remember well. Half the board was calling him a bright spot in a bad year. The other half was citing his .400 BABIP and warning the first half that it wasn't going to last.

 

Regarding pulling the ball, here are Avi's wRC+ splits vs. MLB last year.

 

Pull: 88 / 156

Middle: 137 / 126

Oppo: 163 / 106

 

He's just weird.

 

What is the split?

[Chicago White Sox]

I still think he's going to be out there day 1 starting with no real competition. As asinine as it is I think the Front Office still has quite a bit of hope that he's going to be a pretty good player. There's just too many issues in his game and almost no bright spots other than his age.

I'm getting this same feeling and it's making me sick to my stomach. If he starts 2016 as our RF, then I want Rick Hahn to be accountable if/when he fails. You don't tell your fanbase you're serious about competing and then trot out one of the worst players in baseball last year at a position where numerous upgrades were available. Until Avi learns how to field & run, the chances of him becoming a productive OF are slim to none. And quite frankly, it's nearly impossible to coach up a lack of instincts & stupidity.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'm getting this same feeling and it's making me sick to my stomach. If he starts 2016 as our RF, then I want Rick Hahn to be accountable if/when he fails. You don't tell your fanbase you're serious about competing and then trot out one of the worst players in baseball last year at a position where numerous upgrades were available. Until Avi learns how to field & run, the chances of him becoming a productive OF are slim to none. And quite frankly, it's nearly impossible to coach up a lack of instincts & stupidity.

 

I think he needs to come to spring training weighing at least 25 lbs. less .

[oldsox]

The bat is not the problem with him actually.

 

The guy is a terrible fielder and somehow the the dumbest base runner I have ever seen.

 

Those inabilities on the baseball field carry over to the batter's box where he has no ability to recognize a pitch, despite Hawk thinking he was the greatest hitter of all time at doing something...I think it was hitting a pitch you should never swing at and hitting it to RF.

 

 

This was a massive failure by White Sox scouting.

Was it? Jeez, the guy hit .370ish in two separate AAA stints. I'm sure the shoulder injury had long term effect. We'll see.

[oldsox]

I think he needs to come to spring training weighing at least 25 lbs. less .

Agreed.

[Chicago White Sox]

Was it? Jeez, the guy hit .370ish in two separate AAA stints. I'm sure the shoulder injury had long term effect. We'll see.

Is batting average the only stat you care about? And I'm not sure an unsustainable AAA batting average really means much when said player has no plate discipline, is a horrible defender, & a dumb base runner.

[OmarComing25]

I'm getting this same feeling and it's making me sick to my stomach. If he starts 2016 as our RF, then I want Rick Hahn to be accountable if/when he fails. You don't tell your fanbase you're serious about competing and then trot out one of the worst players in baseball last year at a position where numerous upgrades were available. Until Avi learns how to field & run, the chances of him becoming a productive OF are slim to none. And quite frankly, it's nearly impossible to coach up a lack of instincts & stupidity.

Agreed, with the bountiful OF market going into this offseason, I had zero doubt in my mind that Hahn would find someone to replace Avi, but now as each day goes by the fear of Avi as our 2016 starting RF is looking more and more likely. And if that happens I can't see that as anything other than a colossal mistake by Hahn.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

What is the split?

 

L/R I would assume. So he can only pull the ball against righties, and is better going away on lefties. The literal example of hit the ball where it's being pitched I guess.

[Thomas_Ventura_Roberts]

Actually, forecasting is about finding imbalances and thinking about how they will be resolved. Two things can happen here; and strictly speaking, neither of them are amenable to traditional statistics. If he doesn't make any improvements in chasing base pitches, then he will continue to struggle. If he becomes even average at that and given his natural talent, he would have a huge improvement in performance. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[caulfield12]

Seems pretty simple to track players who had similar swing percentages at age 23-25 and see how many of them came out of it to consistently post 775-825+ ops numbers...since that's what he would need as a negative defensive contributor.

Edited January 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[shysocks]

What is the split?

I wasn't very clear, my bad. The split is based on where the ball is hit. Just gonna paste it here again for reference:

 

(Avi / MLB)

Pull: 88 / 156

Middle: 137 / 126

Oppo: 163 / 106

 

So MLB hitters last year put up a 156 wRC+ when they pulled the ball, 126 hitting it up the middle, and 106 hitting to the opposite field. Compare this to Avi, who was progressively worse the further to the left he hit. You should really be above 100 in all three of these, because only AB's where contact happened are in the data pool. The fact that Avi put up an 88 when pulling the ball strikes me as weird.

 

Looking at other guys who didn't do so well when they pulled it, that list is real short on power hitters. One of the ways for Avi to improve is to develop that power we've been waiting on, but that will never happen if he doesn't learn to pull it with any authority.

[shysocks]

Seems pretty simple to track players who had similar swing percentages at age 23-25 and see how many of them came out of it to consistently post 775-825+ ops numbers...since that's what he would need as a negative defensive contributor.

Here's a leaderboard of guys that age in the last 30 years with the highest single-season chase percentage. There are ways to be productive at the plate if you're a hacker, but most of them involve hitting for some power.

 

Avi is clearly in rarefied air here. You can't even compare him to anybody. He's at the top. SMDH.

 

 

[bmags]

Here's a leaderboard of guys that age in the last 30 years with the highest single-season chase percentage. There are ways to be productive at the plate if you're a hacker, but most of them involve hitting for some power.

 

Avi is clearly in rarefied air here. You can't even compare him to anybody. He's at the top. SMDH.

 

Was going to say that list had better names than I thought but then I saw it's also historical.

[oldsox]

Is batting average the only stat you care about? And I'm not sure an unsustainable AAA batting average really means much when said player has no plate discipline, is a horrible defender, & a dumb base runner.

Nope. I look at the same stats you do, right out of Baseball Reference. It's the only one I quoted in a very short post. The fact is, he hit well in minors, and these flaws you mentioned probably were not as apparent then as they are now after the 2015 season. I'm not so sure bad scouting made the difference you and others think it did. Having a bad post-trade shoulder injury and being post-trade overweight might make a difference. That's all.

[Dick Allen]

Here's a SSS article on the Avi/Peavy trade. The Sox were asking for the right guys from Oakland.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/7/31/4573...-trade-analysis

[caulfield12]

Here's a SSS article on the Avi/Peavy trade. The Sox were asking for the right guys from Oakland.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/7/31/4573...-trade-analysis

 

Michael Choice, not so much.

 

Couldn't the argument be made that every team in baseball was interested in Gray and Russell?

 

 

 

 

[Knackattack]

Here's a SSS article on the Avi/Peavy trade. The Sox were asking for the right guys from Oakland.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/7/31/4573...-trade-analysis

I remember at the time of the trade I was so stoked we got Garcia.. then I saw him play...

[elrockinMT]

Young guys are generally looked down upon on here, if they are on the Sox. An equivalent young player on another team is someone the Sox should trade for.

 

And still, Avi had a higher walk rate than Melky.

 

 

I prefer to think positive. Avi has had one full season under hs belt. He is a talented young player. I said himself towards the end of the season he knew he had to work on hs hitting. I stress that point because too many young players don't pay attention to their hitting coach and can't self assess their weaknesses as ballplayers. We could be in for a pleasant surprise in 2016 with Avi Garcia

[OmarComing25]

I prefer to think positive. Avi has had one full season under hs belt. He is a talented young player. I said himself towards the end of the season he knew he had to work on hs hitting. I stress that point because too many young players don't pay attention to their hitting coach and can't self assess their weaknesses as ballplayers. We could be in for a pleasant surprise in 2016 with Avi Garcia

Depends on what your definition of pleasant surprise is. If he produces a non-negative WAR in 2016 that will be a pleasant surprise for me.