Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 07:22 AM) What's the highest salary you would have the White Sox pay him for one, two and three years? Would you stop at three or go to four? How close would you be willing to go to $68-72 million? No chance. That draft pick is worth what, like $10-$15 million on the open market? That's why he isn't signed. Fowler came into the offseason looking at a 4 year $60 million deal. That QO completely saps his value. He should have accepted the QO. I'd say a 3 year deal would be in the $38-$42 million range and a 2 year $24-$28 million would be possible. Denard Span got $31 over 3 years with no QO attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 07:22 AM) What's the highest salary you would have the White Sox pay him for one, two and three years? Would you stop at three or go to four? How close would you be willing to go to $68-72 million? No way. He might get a Melky-like contract, but I would think that since he hasn't signed yet he'll end up with a smaller deal. I could see the Sox offering 2/$26 or 3/$40...something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 07:30 AM) No chance. That draft pick is worth what, like $10-$15 million on the open market? That's why he isn't signed. Fowler came into the offseason looking at a 4 year $60 million deal. That QO completely saps his value. He should have accepted the QO. I'd say a 3 year deal would be in the $38-$42 million range and a 2 year $24-$28 million would be possible. Denard Span got $31 over 3 years with no QO attached. But Span had an injury-marred year, had overhanging concerns in that area (hence the online video and planned public workout) and is older, right? Whereas Fowler performed much better last season. At any rate, I hope we drive up the contract for the Cubs instead of falling victim to desperation and overpaying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 07:48 AM) But Span had an injury-marred year, had overhanging concerns in that area (hence the online video and planned public workout) and is older, right? Whereas Fowler performed much better last season. At any rate, I hope we drive up the contract for the Cubs instead of falling victim to desperation and overpaying. Fowler had a horrendous 1st half and a great 2nd. He wants to get paid which is why he isn't signed. Teams would give up the pick to sign him for a bargain. They won't pay him his market value and give up the pick though. Until he takes a lesser deal, he won't be signed in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 07:22 AM) What's the highest salary you would have the White Sox pay him for one, two and three years? Would you stop at three or go to four? How close would you be willing to go to $68-72 million? I'd wouldn't give him what the Royals gave Ian Kennedy, even though he's a better player. It isn't my money being spent so I really don't care what they give him, but I really doubt he averages anywhere near $15 million a year. If they are saying he should have taken the QO, his offers must be significantly lower than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 07:55 AM) I'd wouldn't give him what the Royals gave Ian Kennedy, even though he's a better player. It isn't my money being spent so I really don't care what they give him, but I really doubt he averages anywhere near $15 million a year. If they are saying he should have taken the QO, his offers must be significantly lower than that. He's unlikely to average $16 million per year for a two or three year pact, that's pushing it. The questioning was on why not to take one year at $15.8 million and then go back into a slim FA class next year. Put up huge numbers as a complementary piece in that more experienced offense in 2016 and it will make you look better than you really are in actuality. Edited January 28, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 08:06 AM) He's unlikely to average $16 million per year for a two or three year pact, that's pushing it. The questioning was on why not to take one year at $15.8 million and then go back into a slim FA class next year. Put up huge numbers as a complementary piece in that more experienced offense in 2016 and it will make you look better than you really are in actuality. He will be lucky to average $12 million. The fact is, if someone offered him what you are suggesting, he wouldn't still be out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 07:29 AM) They would almost definitely be trading Hammel to free up money So that means the Cubs would have to make two trades to fit him in. Seems unlikely, especially if someone moves on him soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 08:42 AM) So that means the Cubs would have to make two trades to fit him in. Seems unlikely, especially if someone moves on him soon. I could see Hammel being a throw-in in a deal just to replace depth for a team the Cubs get a starter from. Edited January 28, 2016 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 08:42 AM) So that means the Cubs would have to make two trades to fit him in. Seems unlikely, especially if someone moves on him soon. Is it legal for the Cubs to sign him, negating the QO, then deal him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 07:18 AM) 3 of the last 4 years Fowler has put up a better WAR than CarGo. Including CarGo's 40 homer season in 2015. I'm all for Fowler because OBP. That's a lacking area on this team. Fowler does strike out some but he'd be a solid addition if we could and I'd imagine it wouldn't be a big deal. 3-4 years $36-48 million? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 09:09 AM) I'm all for Fowler because OBP. That's a lacking area on this team. Fowler does strike out some but he'd be a solid addition if we could and I'd imagine it wouldn't be a big deal. 3-4 years $36-48 million? Agreed. At this point, I could see Fowler accepting a 3/40ish type of deal and that is not a huge investment for the upgrade he would provide. If you take Fowler's stats from last season and put him on the White Sox, he would of ranked 2nd on the team in home runs (17), 3rd on the team in OBP (.346), and far and away the leader in walks (84). His OBP was a tick below Abreu's, who was at .347 last year and he had 26 more walks than Eaton, who led the Sox in that category in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 The question I have is are the Sox seemingly money strapped because they just flat out dont have the payroll flexibility for next year? Or do they have the flexibility but even they dont believe this team will be good to really be competitive by adding a costly piece? Just like their public approach to the off season when it started they still havent made up their mind of what they are for next year, have they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) Agreed. At this point, I could see Fowler accepting a 3/40ish type of deal and that is not a huge investment for the upgrade he would provide. If you take Fowler's stats from last season and put him on the White Sox, he would of ranked 2nd on the team in home runs (17), 3rd on the team in OBP (.346), and far and away the leader in walks (84). His OBP was a tick below Abreu's, who was at .347 last year and he had 26 more walks than Eaton, who led the Sox in that category in 2015. I don't know what his 2 hole numbers have been but that's where I'd put him tentatively: Eaton Fowler Abreu Frazier Melky Lawrie LaRoche Navila Saladino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 10:23 AM) The question I have is are the Sox seemingly money strapped because they just flat out dont have the payroll flexibility for next year? Or do they have the flexibility but even they dont believe this team will be good to really be competitive by adding a costly piece? Just like their public approach to the off season when it started they still havent made up their mind of what they are for next year, have they? This team better have flexibility next season because Danks and LaRoche come off the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 09:25 AM) I don't know what his 2 hole numbers have been but that's where I'd put him tentatively: Eaton Fowler Abreu Frazier Melky Lawrie LaRoche Navila Saladino This is the lineup I'd use too. LaRoche in the 7th spot takes a bit of pressure off of him. Get him in at first more often then last year to increase his value with his defense. I still hope we get a bat to platoon with him. Edit: oh yeah Avi (unless they deal him or send him to AAA. Edited January 28, 2016 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 09:25 AM) I don't know what his 2 hole numbers have been but that's where I'd put him tentatively: Eaton Fowler Abreu Frazier Melky Lawrie LaRoche Navila Saladino top of the lineup is a career OBP of .355 and .363 in front of career slugging % of .540 and .463. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 10:30 AM) This is the lineup I'd use too. LaRoche in the 7th spot takes a bit of pressure off of him. Get him in at first more often then last year to increase his value with his defense. I still hope we get a bat to platoon with him. Edit: oh yeah Avi (unless they deal him or send him to AAA. I left Avi off because I'm not sure what to do. Guess DH platoon but sucks to waste a roster spot on a guy who isn't good at any one thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 09:32 AM) I left Avi off because I'm not sure what to do. Guess DH platoon but sucks to waste a roster spot on a guy who isn't good at any one thing. Agree. I'd rather not waste a bench spot on a guy who may only DH against lefties. Would rather have a guy who could get into the outfield moving Melky to DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Fowler makes much more sense than most people think. Having him at the top of the order in front of guys like Abreu & Frazier could be a very nice thing. Sox really struggled to get on a base & ultimately score runs. They've added some power & now add a OBP guy like Fowler & that should equate for much more runs than some people think. Is he the missing piece? Maybe not, but he'll sure help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 09:40 AM) Fowler makes much more sense than most people think. Having him at the top of the order in front of guys like Abreu & Frazier could be a very nice thing. Sox really struggled to get on a base & ultimately score runs. They've added some power & now add a OBP guy like Fowler & that should equate for much more runs than some people think. Is he the missing piece? Maybe not, but he'll sure help. Agree and him in one of the corners has to be better than Avi or Melky. Add Fowler does have some power himself. I'm actually starting to warm up to the idea of him coming to our team. He's pretty much the only guy I would give up a pick for out of the remaining four players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'd rather add a plus defender to the worst defensive outfield in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 27, 2016 -> 07:27 PM) Thing is, the Sox would be taking Avi out of RF. Fowler is a slight defensive upgrade in CF over Eaton, Eaton should be an upgrade over Melky in LF and Melky would be an upgrade over Avi in RF so the overall OF defense would be improved with better range too. You know the OF defense was bad last year when adding Fowler is considered an upgrade. Exactly. This is a big reason why I would prefer Fowler over Desmond if we are losing a pick, I think he makes the biggest impact just by realigning the outfield D. Plus bumps Melky down the order into a more productive spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 09:59 AM) I'd rather add a plus defender to the worst defensive outfield in baseball. Fowler would allow them to shuffle positions and maximize each guy's best potential spot. Sox don't have the luxury of multiple available OF options in FA at this point, and Fowler is the best of what is available. His potential presence at the top of the order with Eaton has the potential to really jump start the Sox offense this year imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 28, 2016 -> 10:40 AM) Fowler makes much more sense than most people think. Having him at the top of the order in front of guys like Abreu & Frazier could be a very nice thing. Sox really struggled to get on a base & ultimately score runs. They've added some power & now add a OBP guy like Fowler & that should equate for much more runs than some people think. Is he the missing piece? Maybe not, but he'll sure help. I'll admit, I don't know much about him but his OBP is just what the top of this lineup needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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