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Sox should trade for Andre Ethier


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QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 10:59 AM)
I'm with you but I think Rick is torn by the same things fans are: what do you do with a couple of studs like Sale and Abreu who are in the prime of their career? Do you build around them? Do you jettison them for prospects and do a true re-build? Or do you try to add a few pieces and hope you have one of those years?

 

The hope I'm hanging on to is the universals consensus that came out of the clubhouse last season, ie, this team wanted another chance to prove itself. Not saying they deserved that at all but I do like that mentality. LaRoche and others know they seriously underachieved. I don't think they have the talent on paper to compete with a really solid division but maybe a chip on the shoulder can make some things happen.

 

 

The sox can't do a true rebuild. 5 people would show up at games for however long the rebuild took. I love the sox but were not the cubs, and can't afford to do a true rebuild.

 

I am very frustrated with the FO because we are a piece or two away from being a contender. None of these guys left really appeal to me, and have bust written all over them IMO.

 

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QUOTE (chisox802 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 11:20 AM)
The sox can't do a true rebuild. 5 people would show up at games for however long the rebuild took. I love the sox but were not the cubs, and can't afford to do a true rebuild.

 

I am very frustrated with the FO because we are a piece or two away from being a contender. None of these guys left really appeal to me, and have bust written all over them IMO.

 

Not many show up anyway. That is part of the growing pains that would have to happen.

 

A piece or two is really a long ways away. They need another really good SP. They need another bat in that lineup and they whiffed on all their options the past few weeks.

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QUOTE (chisox802 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 11:20 AM)
The sox can't do a true rebuild. 5 people would show up at games for however long the rebuild took. I love the sox but were not the cubs, and can't afford to do a true rebuild.

 

I am very frustrated with the FO because we are a piece or two away from being a contender. None of these guys left really appeal to me, and have bust written all over them IMO.

 

Not sure how the last two years have been any better in rebuild terms.

 

The sox's strategy now is like turning off a street with traffic to go down a local road with a bunch of stop signs. It feels like you are moving and going faster, but you ultimately should have just stayed in the lane you were in.

 

It is easy to imagine this team only getting 78 wins with a significant injury to Abreu or Sale or Q. Your attendance would look about the same as if you won 63.

 

The faster you get to winning seasons the faster you get attendance boost.

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QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 11:01 AM)
I STILL don't understand why everyone is so fascinated by Ethier. Yeah, he used to be good, but he's old and expensive now.

 

Unless the Sox could package LaRoche and a REALLY low level prospect, I want nothing to do with him.

 

 

Here's why: Ethier put up a 2.9 fWAR and had a wRC+ of 137 last year. He was really good vs RHP. Vs RHP: .385 wOBA, 150 wRC+, high .336 BABIP, with a .900 OPS.

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QUOTE (chisox802 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 11:20 AM)
The sox can't do a true rebuild. 5 people would show up at games for however long the rebuild took. I love the sox but were not the cubs, and can't afford to do a true rebuild.

 

I am very frustrated with the FO because we are a piece or two away from being a contender. None of these guys left really appeal to me, and have bust written all over them IMO.

 

They are already 26th in attendance without rebuilding. How much of a difference would it really make?

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 11:42 AM)
They are already 26th in attendance without rebuilding. How much of a difference would it really make?

It makes a difference. Look at Cleveland, they sold out every game how many years in a row? They have made the playoffs since, but still now draw less than the White Sox. Once they leave, it's harder to get them back. Winning doesn't always work.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 11:44 AM)
It makes a difference. Look at Cleveland, they sold out every game how many years in a row? They have made the playoffs since, but still now draw less than the White Sox. Once they leave, it's harder to get them back. Winning doesn't always work.

 

Since 2001, Cleveland has one ALCS trip and lost the play-in game once. That's it. Worse than the White Sox, they aren't winning at all, that's why the fans aren't coming back.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 11:52 AM)
Since 2001, Cleveland has one ALCS trip and lost the play-in game once. That's it. Worse than the White Sox, they aren't winning at all, that's why the fans aren't coming back.

They never won it all when they were selling out. The White Sox drew less the last time they made the playoffs than the season before when they lost 90 games. Tanking for a few years would require some pretty spectacular results. I don't know why people have a problem watching Chris Sale and Jose Abreu play baseball and hope the guys around them improve enough to win. It isn't like tanking guarantees you anything either. KC and Pittsburgh were horrible for a long time. The Cubs have sucked for years. The White Sox are getting high draft picks anyway. So what is the difference other than the prospects they would get for their better players. At this point, do you really think the prospects they get for Sale will be better for the White Sox than Chris Sale? Maybe when he is a year or 2 from leaving and there is no hope for competing.

 

 

This is a fanbase that still holds trading Alvarez, Hernandez and Danny Darwin at the trade deadline 3 games out, against the organization.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 11:35 AM)
Here's why: Ethier put up a 2.9 fWAR and had a wRC+ of 137 last year. He was really good vs RHP. Vs RHP: .385 wOBA, 150 wRC+, high .336 BABIP, with a .900 OPS.

Umm...even with those numbers, would you be comfortable paying $36 million over 2 years to a 33 year old who's essentially a platoon player at this point?

 

I'm desperate, but not that desperate.

 

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QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 01:04 PM)
Umm...even with those numbers, would you be comfortable paying $36 million over 2 years to a 33 year old who's essentially a platoon player at this point?

 

I'm desperate, but not that desperate.

I still feel like they committed to that kind of move when they traded for several other players under control for only 2 years. They have a 2 year window that closes and if it closes without a playoff appearance then they will be a complete mess, with their other major pieces basically forced onto the trading block. They should act like it. But then again they should have acted like it when FA options were available too.

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QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 12:04 PM)
Umm...even with those numbers, would you be comfortable paying $36 million over 2 years to a 33 year old who's essentially a platoon player at this point?

 

I'm desperate, but not that desperate.

Considering major league pitching is 80% right handed, his being a "platoon player" is no big deal. The other stuff, you're right.

Edited by Dick Allen
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While no one shows up to the games now, you still have to keep a fan base some what interested.

 

Maybe I am totally wrong, but if we went into complete re-build mode..... I think you would hear talks of the team being moved.

 

On a Tuesday night you might have a 8-10k show up to a game. I think it would be really really bad if we went the re-build route.... They would have to let people into the game for free IMO.

 

Just my two cents.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 12:59 PM)
They never won it all when they were selling out. The White Sox drew less the last time they made the playoffs than the season before when they lost 90 games. Tanking for a few years would require some pretty spectacular results. I don't know why people have a problem watching Chris Sale and Jose Abreu play baseball and hope the guys around them improve enough to win. It isn't like tanking guarantees you anything either. KC and Pittsburgh were horrible for a long time. The Cubs have sucked for years. The White Sox are getting high draft picks anyway. So what is the difference other than the prospects they would get for their better players. At this point, do you really think the prospects they get for Sale will be better for the White Sox than Chris Sale? Maybe when he is a year or 2 from leaving and there is no hope for competing.

 

 

This is a fanbase that still holds trading Alvarez, Hernandez and Danny Darwin at the trade deadline 3 games out, against the organization.

Worth pointing out every time this statement comes up this season:

 

Theo Epstein took over the Cubs in October of 2011. Since Theo Epstein took over the Cubs that franchise has won 297 games over 4 seasons.

 

Since that same date, the Chicago White Sox have won...297 games.

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QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 12:04 PM)
Umm...even with those numbers, would you be comfortable paying $36 million over 2 years to a 33 year old who's essentially a platoon player at this point?

 

I'm desperate, but not that desperate.

 

 

I never said that the Sox should pay him $18 million per. Dodgers would have to eat some.

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QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 12:04 PM)
Umm...even with those numbers, would you be comfortable paying $36 million over 2 years to a 33 year old who's essentially a platoon player at this point?

 

I'm desperate, but not that desperate.

He may be a platoon player, but he hits right-handed pitching well, and a large percentage of pitchers are right-handed. The money is a concern, of course, but I would imagine the Sox wouldn't make a deal unless the Dodgers send some cash and/or the Sox don't give up much.

 

Ethier is a good option, especially if the Sox want to take advantage of the next two years with Frazier, Abreu, Sale, Quintana...

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QUOTE (chisox802 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 12:10 PM)
While no one shows up to the games now, you still have to keep a fan base some what interested.

 

Maybe I am totally wrong, but if we went into complete re-build mode..... I think you would hear talks of the team being moved.

 

On a Tuesday night you might have a 8-10k show up to a game. I think it would be really really bad if we went the re-build route.... They would have to let people into the game for free IMO.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Would 8-10k really be that much of a difference?

 

Tuesday night 08/26/14 - 12,462

Wednesday night 08/27/14 - 11,976

 

Tuesday night 09/08/15 - 11,990

Wednesday night 09/09/15 - 11,667

Tuesday night 09/15/15 - 12,446

Wednesday night 09/16/15 - 13,005

 

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 11:59 AM)
They never won it all when they were selling out. The White Sox drew less the last time they made the playoffs than the season before when they lost 90 games. Tanking for a few years would require some pretty spectacular results. I don't know why people have a problem watching Chris Sale and Jose Abreu play baseball and hope the guys around them improve enough to win. It isn't like tanking guarantees you anything either. KC and Pittsburgh were horrible for a long time. The Cubs have sucked for years. The White Sox are getting high draft picks anyway. So what is the difference other than the prospects they would get for their better players. At this point, do you really think the prospects they get for Sale will be better for the White Sox than Chris Sale? Maybe when he is a year or 2 from leaving and there is no hope for competing.

 

 

This is a fanbase that still holds trading Alvarez, Hernandez and Danny Darwin at the trade deadline 3 games out, against the organization.

 

The only reason the Cubs are where they are is because their fans supported them through their rebuild and allowed them to hand out something like half a billion in free agent contracts while they were "rebuilding".

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 12:15 PM)
Worth pointing out every time this statement comes up this season:

 

Theo Epstein took over the Cubs in October of 2011. Since Theo Epstein took over the Cubs that franchise has won 297 games over 4 seasons.

 

Since that same date, the Chicago White Sox have won...297 games.

 

Ergo, we should be getting 40k a night.

 

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 12:15 PM)
Worth pointing out every time this statement comes up this season:

 

Theo Epstein took over the Cubs in October of 2011. Since Theo Epstein took over the Cubs that franchise has won 297 games over 4 seasons.

 

Since that same date, the Chicago White Sox have won...297 games.

You should also point out during that time the Cubs drew 11,137,363, the White Sox drew 7,140,999. Close to 1 million fans a year more. In fact it they could have matched the Cubs attendance, it would have been the greatest 4 year stretch in their history. The only reason to tank is for the first round pick. After that, any player you can select is available to a team that tried to contend but did not as long as they have their draft picks. The Cubs being awful got them Bryant and Schwarber. All the other guys they could have acquired anyway.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 01:27 PM)
You should also point out during that time the Cubs drew 11,137,363, the White Sox drew 7,140,999. Close to 1 million fans a year. The only reason to tank is for the first round pick. After that, any player you can select is available to a team that tried to contend but did not as long as they have their draft picks. The Cubs being awful got them Bryant and Schwarber. All the other guys they could have acquired anyway.

Um...ok????????

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 12:29 PM)
Um...ok????????

The Sox got Rodon, not bad. We will see what Fulmer does. Sale was a 12 pick. Do you know, since Dayton Moore has been the GM of the Royals, the White Sox have more accumulative WAR out of their 1st round picks than the Royals? In fact, all of the Royals 1st round picks since 2007, and they have had 6 in the top 8, 5 in the top 5, don't add up WAR wise to Chris Sale. Yet, somehow they won the World Series.

Edited by Dick Allen
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