Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 09:42 AM) If they can get Fowler at 2/20, what the f*** are they waiting for? They aren't waiting. Fowler isn't wiling to accept a deal like that yet. That's why he's not signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 07:46 AM) They aren't waiting. Fowler isn't wiling to accept a deal like that yet. That's why he's not signed. I guess that's my entire point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 09:42 AM) If they can get Fowler at 2/20, what the f*** are they waiting for? If Fowler was willing to settle on 2/20, I think he would of signed yesterday. Sox and Fowler are playing chicken it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 If they can get Fowler at 2/20, what the f*** are they waiting for? They are waiting for Fowler to realize that he's only going to get 2/20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Apparently my post wasn't very well written. My entire point was that if they could sign Fowler for that deal it would have been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Yeah I still think that deal is too low. Kendrick is very specifically a 2b or a DH. Fowler could pass in 3 OF positions, or DH (in a literal sense). He is younger than Kendrick. There's no reason he should be stuck to that specific deal. I'd be surprised if less than 12 mill per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 10:57 AM) Yeah I still think that deal is too low. Kendrick is very specifically a 2b or a DH. Fowler could pass in 3 OF positions, or DH (in a literal sense). He is younger than Kendrick. There's no reason he should be stuck to that specific deal. I'd be surprised if less than 12 mill per year. I would, too. But I just want to point out that comparison pricing in this situation is a fallacy -- "market rates" only apply when demand significantly outstrips supply. In the case of free agency, and ESPECIALLY late-offseason free agency, every time a guy signs a deal, he removes a major chunk of demand along with the supply he provides. Dexter Fowler is not currently shopping in the same environment that earlier free agents (even Kendrick) signed. So who knows? He could get sign any manner of crazy deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 10:42 AM) If they can get Fowler at 2/20, what the f*** are they waiting for? I imagine it's more likely that they're waiting for Fowler to cave in to that price than the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 2/$20 million would obviously be a steal, and if those were the terms of current offers then there would be many more suitors than just the Sox in on the bidding. The market MIGHT end up there, but it's not there yet. Maybe 3 years/$35 with an opt out after year 2 gets it done before the sharks start to gather? Even those terms would be a bargain; it's looking more and more like Fowler might end up as one of the best bargains on the FA market by the time he signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 09:52 AM) Apparently my post wasn't very well written. My entire point was that if they could sign Fowler for that deal it would have been done. The point being, as time goes on and suitors fall by the boards, his demands will go down. He turned down $15.8 million 1 year contract. I'm pretty sure he would sign that today. You are right, if they could sign him to that today, they would. It doesn't mean they won't be able to at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) If the Sox can pick up Desmond/Fowler on a 3 year (or less deal) with an AAV around 11 this offseason would have to be considered outstanding. Replace black holes at 3B/2B & SS/RF with three ~2 WAR+ players. Add an incredible value to the rotation and insulate from injury. Lose nothing from the pen and add a couple arms for more depth. Get a more offensively exciting catching position. Catcher = call it even First Base = same Second Base = good improvement Third Base = huge improvement Shortstop = either improvement because it can't get worse from '15 or big improvement in Desmond Left Field = same Center Field = same Right Field = Same or good improvement DH = Same, can't get worse SP1 = same SP2 = same SP3 = I'll call Rodon even to Samardzija but could go either way SP4 = improved SP5 = same Depth = better Bullpen = Everyone is back, Jones/Albers healthy + more depth in Kahnle, Aunmont, Lamb, etc. Is there one position they got worse at? Potentially catcher. That's it. The team lost Montas, Thompson, prospect depth and their payroll was raised just above the extent of salary inflation in average. This is a good offseason. Finish it. Stop making sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 How did catcher get worse or even stay the same? Catcher is very much improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) How did catcher get worse or even stay the same? Catcher is very much improved. According to the early projections, it is something like a 2 to 3 WAR improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I'd also have to argue raBBit, that Rodon will be light years better than Samarjaza and his MLB worst perfs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 We always expect best case scenarios though. One or several of our players will have career low years, hopefully several will post career bests. His projections are pretty modest. C is improved, but probably #1 position to expect significant time off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 01:14 PM) I was operating under career norms and I am in no way expecting best case scenarios. If Frazier could has a sub .300 OBP I wouldn't be surprised. LaRoche performed in the 90-100 percentile. He can't get worse. 3B, SS, 2B and RF were all black holes. You cannot get worse. If a performer is worse than one these positions production level last year they will be replaced. I think Eaton/Melky could have drop offs. Other than that, the Sox just need Sale/Q/Abreu/Eaton/Rodon/Robertson to stay healthy and the bullpen can't blow up. I was actually defending you. I thought your anticipated improvements were pretty conservative. Eaton I would say is most likely drop off in power, hopefully he raises OBP to make up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo880 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) How did catcher get worse or even stay the same? Catcher is very much improved. I was going to say they same. Catcher seems like an obvious improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) I was actually defending you. I thought your anticipated improvements were pretty conservative. Eaton I would say is most likely drop off in power, hopefully he raises OBP to make up for it. Yeah the only one I could see decent regression from compared to last year is CF, and that's because I'm not sure Eaton has 14 HR in him again. Abreu was complete trash against LHP in 2015 after demolishing them in 2014, I think we'll see improvement from him considering his RHP splits pretty much stayed the same. SS, 3B, 2B, DH and RF pretty much can't be worse (especially if they pick up Fowler/Jackson) even with regression from the newcomers, Rodon over a full season should be better than rookie Rodon's partial season, and Latos/Johnson should easily outperform Samardzija. Danks could fall off, as that 2nd half seems unlikely to happen again, and Sale will very likely have a much better ERA this year compared to last. Bullpen should be a push even in a bad-case scenario, and we have depth in case some guys underperform/get injured. We did outperform our WAR and run differential by about 4-5 games, so we have to take that into account. But picking up Desmond/Fowler should have us right in the mix. For all the talk about the Sox relying on guys to bounce back, the Tigers are pretty much hoping for the same thing. Edited February 10, 2016 by OmarComing25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Per Rosenthal: Sources: Fowler possible for #Orioles if they complete Gallardo deal. Would be willing to part with second pick, currently No. 29. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Sox brass is going to get pounded if Avi is your starting RFer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 04:08 PM) Sox brass is going to get pounded if Avi is your starting RFer Austin Jackson and a nice three high picks come draft time to rebuild the recently lost prospects is going to sit well with me. Fowler doesnt do much for a moribund OF defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 04:09 PM) Austin Jackson and a nice three high picks come draft time to rebuild the recently lost prospects is going to sit well with me. Fowler doesnt do much for a moribund OF defense. I'd be more than happy with Austin Jackson at this point, I've maintained OF defense is the quickest way to get this team better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 05:08 PM) Sox brass is going to get pounded if Avi is your starting RFer And they should, honestly. When the market is completely flush with options and prices are lower than they've been in years, you have to make a move that makes as much sense as this one has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 04:16 PM) And they should, honestly. When the market is completely flush with options and prices are lower than they've been in years, you have to make a move that makes as much sense as this one has. I honestly feel bad for Avi...first sign of trouble and he's going to get absolutely roasted. He's going to hear it at the ball park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 QUOTE (Baron @ Feb 10, 2016 -> 04:25 PM) I honestly feel bad for Avi...first sign of trouble and he's going to get absolutely roasted. He's going to hear it at the ball park. You're not kidding. The fans boo'd him pretty good at SoxFest so I can only imagine what they will do at the ballpark if Avi struggles in the beginning of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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