Orioles DO NOT Sign Fowler

[bmags]

Have to disagree on that one. Markaikas is a much better fielder seeing he did win the gold glove in 2014 i believe. His defense has slipped but would be the best left or right fielder on this team by far. Plus the 377 OBP would be great in the 2 hole. He knows how to handle the bat very well. Who cares about his lack of homers but he can probably hit 8-12 in this ballpark but if he hit 3 and batted what he did last year it would be a big boost for us. And he did hit 38 doubles last year. Ive been on the Markaikas band wagon for months now. . Love to have him on the field and in clubhouse.

 

Listen gold glove follower...

[bmags]

I've been chanting patience as much as anyone, but if Fowler signs for 2 years $20 million with Baltimore, and Hahn doesn't have something else up his sleeve, I will be more than a little perplexed.

 

The only thing is that 2 for 20 seems rather casually used. I feel like if we dug into it we'd find those rumors coming from speculation or a dubious source.

 

I thought Fowler would cost 16 million and demand a 3-4 year deal. Two for 20 is fantastic, if we want to move a different directoin that's a contract where you can easily move. That's all I've wanted in this OF chase. Someone that is absolutely a starter for 3-4 years, or someone we can easily pivot from (ala AJax)

[SoCalSox]

Believe in Nightengale until proven otherwise

 

I personally still don't believe most of what he says, even Bucket has said he doesn't know nearly as much as most in here think.

 

It seems like they are only willing to blow the budget on certain players & those players now seem to be gone...

[southsider2k5]

Fun stat, steamer projects Markakis to be worse defensively than Avi in 2016. Markakis has horrible defensive WAR ratings throughout his career.

 

Avi put up a -1.8 dWAR last year. Markakis put up a -1.5. Nick might have put up better offensive stats, but are they worth $11 million a year for the next three years? God no.

[Balta1701]

Still think if they don't bring in Desmond or another outfielder, Raburn would be an ideal fit.

No one has said it in reply so I will.

 

Bringing in Ryan Raburn would be a terrible idea for the White Sox because he would no longer be able to hit against the White Sox. This would cause a serious decrease in his yearly production. Drop his RBI numbers, for example, by 25%.

 

it would, however, improve our pitching staff.

[fathom]

No one has said it in reply so I will.

 

Bringing in Ryan Raburn would be a terrible idea for the White Sox because he would no longer be able to hit against the White Sox. This would cause a serious decrease in his yearly production. Drop his RBI numbers, for example, by 25%.

 

But wouldn't it also help our pitchers out, as they would no longer have to face him?

[Balta1701]

But wouldn't it also help our pitchers out, as they would no longer have to face him?

yeah, edited that in...just don't expect offense out of him

 

The best, of course, would be for some NL team to sign him. Same benefits, no weakened hitter on the roster.

[OmarComing25]

yeah, edited that in...just don't expect offense out of him

 

The best, of course, would be for some NL team to sign him. Same benefits, no weakened hitter on the roster.

But we might still have to face him depending on which NL team it is. Safest way is if a Japanese team offers him a decent contract.

[Balta1701]

But we might still have to face him depending on which NL team it is. Safest way is if a Japanese team offers him a decent contract.

But not 19 times per season.

[caulfield12]

I think Latos ends up the Sox #3 starter to break up the lefties. I'm thinking we'll see an opening day rotation of Sale, Q, Latos, Rodon, Danks. I admit that I'm optimistic Latos will be healthy to start the season and Cooper will be helpful to Latos. Latos has some nasty stuff and I think a pitching coach like Cooper is the kind of coach a guy like Latos needs to get back on track. Plus, the Sox are good at keeping players healthy.

 

As for Jackson, his CF defense would be a huge improvement. Even if the Sox stuck with Eaton in CF, Jackson's glove in RF is light years better than Avi's.

 

Samardzija? Liriano? Paulino?

 

Let's not be too optimistic until we see where he's at physically.

 

 

Fwiw, pretty sad we're arguing about guys like Shuck, Sands and Raburn after all the excitement beginning in December.

Edited February 17, 2016 by caulfield12

[OmarComing25]

But not 19 times per season.

Watch the Braves sign him and have him single-handedly win two of the three games against the Sox this year.

[Bob Sacamano]

Then why did they take on Swisher and Bourn's contracts in the trade with Cleveland?

 

Because they took on 2 bad contracts with one year left for a guy with 2 years left. Wanted to get out of bad money quicker.

[Dick Allen]

Samardzija? Liriano? Paulino?

 

Let's not be too optimistic until we see where he's at physically.

 

 

Fwiw, pretty sad we're arguing about guys like Shuck, Sands and Raburn after all the excitement beginning in December.

Why did you suggest giving Latos $10-12 million in your new market inefficiency thread? You mentioned him several times in that thread, only ranking guys who got $80 million, one rumored to be on the verge of 40-45 million, and $70 million ahead of him. Considering it was a market inefficiency thread you yourself started, I would think the $3 million the Sox paid out would be something you would consider a good deal. But what was I thinking. Caulfield: sign Mat Latos for $10-12 million. Maybe sign Parra for $8 million, and sign Desmond in June. It will be better than signing Cespedes.White Sox sign Latos for $3 million. Caulfield: don't be too optimistic until we see where he is at physically.

 

True colors (royal blue) shown.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Dick Allen

[chitownsportsfan]

Team is better on paper right now then it was this time last year. Avi is a year older and a year further out from that s***ty injury. Carlos has a good 100+ innings of MLB work under his belt. Latos is better than Danks. Danks himself is better than '15 Johnson.

 

I'm excited for the season. Last year I was hoping for 86 wins and realistically thinking 82. This year I'm hoping for 88 and realistically thinking 84, which could perhaps trigger a play in game for the 2nd wild card.

 

Let's get this ish going. Too bad my car is in the shop and pending the cost to fix it probably will have to cancel my plans to head down to Tempe next month.

Edited February 18, 2016 by chitownsportsfan

[Y2Jimmy0]

I've tried to stay patient through out this process but it's becoming increasingly hard to swallow the thought of them not making another move. I have a feeling the Fowler deal is going to piss some fans off if/when he signs with Baltimore.

 

I get the "being on a budget" thing to a certain extent but I thought for sure that the Frazier move was them signaling they would do more than this...

 

 

I don't think it's the budget. I think they want to spend $9 million on the draft.

[Chicago White Sox]

I don't think it's the budget. I think they want to spend $9 million on the draft.

Then they should go out and add Jackson. I'm not ready to pull my pitchfork out just yet, but there is absolutely no excuse for not adding another OF. It would be a sign that the front office is still high on Avi as an OF, which is an incredibly risky gamble to take given how winnable this division is this year. Hahn should be held accountable if Avi is given a starting role and he ends up being one of the primary reasons we miss the playoffs this year.

[chitownsportsfan]

Then they should go out and add Jackson. I'm not ready to pull my pitchfork out just yet, but there is absolutely no excuse for not adding another OF. It would be a sign that the front office is still high on Avi as an OF, which is an incredibly risky gamble to take given how winnable this division is this year. Hahn should be held accountable if Avi is given a starting role and he ends up being one of the primary reasons we miss the playoffs this year.

 

Why would they give up assets for Austin Jackson? Austin Jackson's .5 to 1.5 WAR is not going to do jack s*** better to just tell Avi to sink or swim. If Avi is -2 WAR in June and the Sox are in contention then you bring in a guy like Jackson but not until then. Better to hold onto the assets and see how things look later on.

 

If some stud 3-5 WAR OF was available then yea sure, fug Avi, but replacing Avi with Jackson is fools gold.

[chitownsportsfan]

Then they should go out and add Jackson. I'm not ready to pull my pitchfork out just yet, but there is absolutely no excuse for not adding another OF. It would be a sign that the front office is still high on Avi as an OF, which is an incredibly risky gamble to take given how winnable this division is this year. Hahn should be held accountable if Avi is given a starting role and he ends up being one of the primary reasons we miss the playoffs this year.

 

Put the pitchfork down and take a deep breath. I'll go ahead and say right now that the difference between Jackson's 2016 WAR and Avi's will be under 1, plus or minus.

[BlackSox13]

Why would they give up assets for Austin Jackson? Austin Jackson's .5 to 1.5 WAR is not going to do jack s*** better to just tell Avi to sink or swim. If Avi is -2 WAR in June and the Sox are in contention then you bring in a guy like Jackson but not until then. Better to hold onto the assets and see how things look later on.

 

If some stud 3-5 WAR OF was available then yea sure, fug Avi, but replacing Avi with Jackson is fools gold.

The only assets Jackson would cost is money. Jackson defense alone is a big upgrade over Avi.

[Dick Allen]

The only assets Jackson would cost is money. Jackson defense alone is a big upgrade over Avi.

Yes, and Jackson has averaged a 3 WAR the last 6 years. A low of 0.9 in 2014, but had a 2.3 in a down year in 2015. Of course, we have no idea about cost, but if he is cheap, another no brainer.

[chitownsportsfan]

The only assets Jackson would cost is money. Jackson defense alone is a big upgrade over Avi.

 

the assets are the opportunity cost. You're spending money and a roster spot and basically giving up on what could be an asset in the future -- Avi -- and for what? You're giving up flexibility that could be used on a much better upgrade later on. You guys that are pining for Jackson -- have you watched him play since he left Detroit? He's on the wrong side of 30 and put up a whopping 1.7 bWAR last year. Steamer projects him for 1.1 fWAR.

 

He's no great shakes and you're asking him to play RF mostly, where he's played a total of 22 games in his career.

 

The upgrade to go get is Fowler. That is a clear upgrade. Jackson is not worth the opportunity cost.

Edited February 18, 2016 by chitownsportsfan

[SoxSteve]

Avi put up a -1.8 dWAR last year. Markakis put up a -1.5. Nick might have put up better offensive stats, but are they worth $11 million a year for the next three years? God no.

Here we go with the War, steamer, Zips etc. I've seen both of them play alot and Avi is not better nor is it even close. Markaikas is a better outfielder than Garcia or Melky. PERIOD. Plus put him in the 2 hole and you have a awesome lefty 1-2 punch followed up by a bunch of righties. Love the lineup with him in the 2 hole. Plus it's not my money. Il take his 38 doubles and 375 OBP right now. Trade is never going to happen so it is a moot point. And Avi will never win a gold glove and won't even come close like Markaikas did a year ago. Plus i think a Avi - Laroche DH platoon could be effective for a yar and then see if Garcia is worth keeping for 2017.

Edited February 18, 2016 by SoxSteve

[Dick Allen]

the assets are the opportunity cost. You're spending money and a roster spot and basically giving up on what could be an asset in the future -- Avi -- and for what? You're giving up flexibility that could be used on a much better upgrade later on. You guys that are pining for Jackson -- have you watched him play since he left Detroit? He's on the wrong side of 30 and put up a whopping 1.7 bWAR last year. Steamer projects him for 1.1 fWAR.

 

He's no great shakes and you're asking him to play RF mostly, where he's played a total of 22 games in his career.

 

The upgrade to go get is Fowler. That is a clear upgrade. Jackson is not worth the opportunity cost.

he is on the same side of 30 as Avi.

[Dunt]

the assets are the opportunity cost. You're spending money and a roster spot and basically giving up on what could be an asset in the future -- Avi -- and for what? You're giving up flexibility that could be used on a much better upgrade later on. You guys that are pining for Jackson -- have you watched him play since he left Detroit? He's on the wrong side of 30 and put up a whopping 1.7 bWAR last year. Steamer projects him for 1.1 fWAR.

 

He's no great shakes and you're asking him to play RF mostly, where he's played a total of 22 games in his career.

 

The upgrade to go get is Fowler. That is a clear upgrade. Jackson is not worth the opportunity cost.

 

He's 28...

[southsider2k5]

Here we go with the War, steamer, Zips etc. I've seen both of them play alot and Avi is not better nor is it even close. Markaikas is a better outfielder than Garcia or Melky. PERIOD. Plus put him in the 2 hole and you have a awesome lefty 1-2 punch followed up by a bunch of righties. Love the lineup with him in the 2 hole. Plus it's not my money. Il take his 38 doubles and 375 OBP right now. Trade is never going to happen so it is a moot point. And Avi will never win a gold glove and won't even come close like Markaikas did a year ago. Plus i think a Avi - Laroche DH platoon could be effective for a yar and then see if Garcia is worth keeping for 2017.

 

Here we go with the eye test...