Orioles DO NOT Sign Fowler

[Balta1701]

Yes we are a couple of pieces short. So is the entire AL Central. I don't think we are the leading candidate here, but we sure aren't out of it. The team has been improved a lot during the off-season, and it might be enough.

 

Here is the thing though, even if we can't win it this year, the next off-season is probably going to be one of the best sellers markets in the history of baseball. All you have to do is look at the free agent market and know that teams that are willing to trade assets aren't going to be competing against quality free agents. They are going to be going against the worst free agent market in modern history. In a scenario where the Sox don't make it, AND decide to sell, they can decide to sell short term assets, such as Frazier and Lawrie, or they can go full out rebuild and trade from the starting pitcher stash. If they were to do it, they should be able to control the selling market more than most times.

Ok, I've got to ask this because I think I've read this from you several times.

 

Here are 2 scenarios:

 

"The White Sox sell Frazier and one of their pitchers and actually decide to rebuild next offseason"

 

"The White Sox realize their payroll is $15 million less, have $15 million to play with, and pump it all into one more season saying this will be the year!!!!!". They then pay a high price, as in the previous 2 years, to bring in 1-2 players that fill whatever hole they're filling that offseason (RF?).

 

Can you honestly tell me you have any reason whatsoever to believe the White Sox will do anything other than try to be a buyer in a seller's market? Have they done anything to convince you that they'd actually sell under any circumstances other than "in the middle of a 65 win season"?

 

I've seen absolutely nothing from this franchise that suggests they won't convince themselves they're 1 player away next offseason regardless of whether they win 68 or 88 games this year.

[Balta1701]

The Nats offer was a fortune and he wouldnt have to put up MVP numbers again to receive it. But they are on a whole other planet when it comes to business decisions then where I am. LOL

He turned down a difference of about $30 million guaranteed, per press reports of the Nats deal being about $100m, in exchange for a shot at an extra $50-$100m.

 

Call it the Jimmy Butler game. Jimmy turned down $55 million or so before 2014, and then before 2015 was sitting on $90 million.

[Kyyle23]

He turned down a difference of about $30 million guaranteed, per press reports of the Nats deal being about $100m, in exchange for a shot at an extra $50-$100m.

 

Call it the Jimmy Butler game. Jimmy turned down $55 million or so before 2014, and then before 2015 was sitting on $90 million.

 

Yea, let's call it the Juan Gonzalez game and say he turned down what was then the highest contract in the league and never sniffed it again. Cespedes isn't a lock for a repeat of last season

[GGajewski18]

These 2 need to sign already. We've been talking about these 2 to Baltimore for 2-3 weeks now. Getting annoying, just like the rest of this off season since the Frazier trade.

 

(I did love the Latos and Albers signing)

[ChiSox59]

He turned down a difference of about $30 million guaranteed, per press reports of the Nats deal being about $100m, in exchange for a shot at an extra $50-$100m.

 

Call it the Jimmy Butler game. Jimmy turned down $55 million or so before 2014, and then before 2015 was sitting on $90 million.

 

Jimmy - my guy.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Well, I disagree. The White Sox had a chance to exceed that offer and did not, and I've seen nothing that indicates our offer was better than Kansas City. I am sure Gordon did want to stay in KC, but offering him a better deal to play with you (your "could help it" scenario) I am confident would have swayed him.

 

 

I bet the Sox offered 4 years at decent $$. No reason for KC to give a 4 year deal and 5th year option if Sox hardlined at 3 years.

[caulfield12]

So we're supposed to believe they only offered four years to Gordon primarily due to the White Sox?

 

What evidence is there to support that?

 

After all, KC gave $20 million more than any team in the majors was willing to bid on Ian Kennedy, and they gave him five years, so why would it be a surprise their own homegrown player who they're even more familiar with ended up with four? Heck, Ben Zobrist is 3-4 years older and still received four guaranteed years from the Cubs.

 

Can one argue the whole plan for the offseason after mid December was just to raise years and total FA dollars for other teams? Sounds like a strategy of sorts, except the Indians and Twins aren't spending and the Tigers especially can outbid everyone when they choose to do so.

 

And, in the end, the Royals will be terrible in 2018 and 2019 whether they have Gordon or not.

Edited February 19, 2016 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

It does matter. Because we were negotiating for a free agent who is allowed to choose the best offer. If we aren't prepared to give the best offer, we shouldn't rely on free agency to fill all of our holes every year. It tends to require money.

 

that is a completely different thing, and nothing like being used.

[southsider2k5]

Ok, I've got to ask this because I think I've read this from you several times.

 

Here are 2 scenarios:

 

"The White Sox sell Frazier and one of their pitchers and actually decide to rebuild next offseason"

 

"The White Sox realize their payroll is $15 million less, have $15 million to play with, and pump it all into one more season saying this will be the year!!!!!". They then pay a high price, as in the previous 2 years, to bring in 1-2 players that fill whatever hole they're filling that offseason (RF?).

 

Can you honestly tell me you have any reason whatsoever to believe the White Sox will do anything other than try to be a buyer in a seller's market? Have they done anything to convince you that they'd actually sell under any circumstances other than "in the middle of a 65 win season"?

 

I've seen absolutely nothing from this franchise that suggests they won't convince themselves they're 1 player away next offseason regardless of whether they win 68 or 88 games this year.

 

I just wonder what you are going to do to fill all of your free time during baseball season this year.

[southsider2k5]

Yea, let's call it the Juan Gonzalez game and say he turned down what was then the highest contract in the league and never sniffed it again. Cespedes isn't a lock for a repeat of last season

 

And Juan Gonzalez even had a history of being that good.

[Rowand44]

Yes we are a couple of pieces short. So is the entire AL Central. I don't think we are the leading candidate here, but we sure aren't out of it. The team has been improved a lot during the off-season, and it might be enough.

 

Here is the thing though, even if we can't win it this year, the next off-season is probably going to be one of the best sellers markets in the history of baseball. All you have to do is look at the free agent market and know that teams that are willing to trade assets aren't going to be competing against quality free agents. They are going to be going against the worst free agent market in modern history. In a scenario where the Sox don't make it, AND decide to sell, they can decide to sell short term assets, such as Frazier and Lawrie, or they can go full out rebuild and trade from the starting pitcher stash. If they were to do it, they should be able to control the selling market more than most times.

This is such a silly plan though. That's the definition of playing the middle.

[caulfield12]

And Juan Gonzalez even had a history of being that good.

 

It's hard to know, but maybe his body started breaking down much earlier due to steroid use...?

 

Of course, typically players are able to extend their careers, but a lot of them started juicing in their late 20s or early 30s.

 

At any rate, it's not a coincidence that Ruben Sierra, Gonzalez and Sosa all came out of the Rangers' organization in that same generation of players.

[bmags]

that is a completely different thing, and nothing like being used.

 

Which, is why we weren't used, we were outbid in a normal bidding of services for a free agent player. Your contention is we were used.

[Kyyle23]

It's hard to know, but maybe his body started breaking down much earlier due to steroid use...?

 

Of course, typically players are able to extend their careers, but a lot of them started juicing in their late 20s or early 30s.

 

At any rate, it's not a coincidence that Ruben Sierra, Gonzalez and Sosa all came out of the Rangers' organization in that same generation of players.

 

I think it has been pretty widely speculated that Juan Gone juiced, and it caused his body to fall apart. Pretty sure he tore his hamstring running to first with the Indians and never played again

[Dick Allen]

So did juicing lengthen careers or shorten them? If the juice caused Juan Gone to fall apart, why were there so many guys pushing 40 putting up .900 or so OPSs?

[Bigsoxhurt35]

So did juicing lengthen careers or shorten them? If the juice caused Juan Gone to fall apart, why were there so many guys pushing 40 putting up .900 or so OPSs?

Everyone's body is different. It generally should wear you down though.

[BlackSox13]

Dan Duquette on Orioles' pursuit of free agents and weighing draft-pick compensation.

 

"That’s part of the consideration in the situations with the free agents that require compensation, so if the club is going to participate in that market, they have to take into account the value of the pick – the current value and the potential future value of the pick. So that’s part of our consideration in each of these instances for compensation free agents,” he said. “It’s a system that’s been in place a couple years, but there seems to be certain players in the market where it affects their contract."

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles...0220-story.html

 

I like what Duquette says in this article. Provides a bit of insight into what negotiations are like with players such as Desmond, Fowler and Gallardo that aren't to tier but have comp picks attached to them.

 

Doesn't sound like Fowler to the Orioles is a done deal either. Sounds like Baltimore fans are going through what we Sox fans have already been through with the Fowler rumors.

[caulfield12]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles...0220-story.html

 

I like what Duquette says in this article. Provides a bit of insight into what negotiations are like with players such as Desmond, Fowler and Gallardo that aren't to tier but have comp picks attached to them.

 

Doesn't sound like Fowler to the Orioles is a done deal either. Sounds like Baltimore fans are going through what we Sox fans have already been through with the Fowler rumors.

 

Minus the fact they have the best cumulative record in the AL over the last four seasons.

 

Although I'm sure they are a bit concerned with too many all or nothing types when you add Trumbo and the uncertainty of a Korean hitter into the mix. Still can't believe Davis' deal is almost $100 million more than Abreu and Jose's much closer to his prime.

[BlackSox13]

Minus the fact they have the best cumulative record in the AL over the last four seasons.

 

Although I'm sure they are a bit concerned with too many all or nothing types when you add Trumbo and the uncertainty of a Korean hitter into the mix. Still can't believe Davis' deal is almost $100 million more than Abreu and Jose's much closer to his prime.

What does any of this have to do with 2nd tier free agents, the contracts they seek and the comp picks attached to those free agents?

[caulfield12]

What does any of this have to do with 2nd tier free agents, the contracts they seek and the comp picks attached to those free agents?

 

The situation for White Sox and Orioles fans is quite distinct.

 

They can afford $150 million payrolls and contracts that are almost double the biggest in Sox history. How are the fan experiences and expectations similar when they're clearly all-in and willing to sacrifice the future for the present?

 

I'm also quite sure there are not 400+ pages dedicated to Yoenis Cespedes on their boards even though they made a bigger offer.

 

 

As far as compensation picks go, we've run that topic into the ground for weeks. There's not anything particularly new or insightful to add that hasn't already been covered at length.

Edited February 20, 2016 by caulfield12

[Bob Sacamano]

Orioles sign Gallardo.

[Princess Dye]

for what it's worth, daily dish thinks gallardo's deal might make an O's Fowler signing ...less..likely. Not many are saying that though

 

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2016/2/20/1107...yovani-gallardo

Edited February 21, 2016 by Jose Paniagua

[Whisox05]

#orioles have been talking to Fowler's agent about 2 year deal for around $24 million, plus an option, per source.

https://twitter.com/masnRoch/status/701193844675715072

[BlackSox13]

The situation for White Sox and Orioles fans is quite distinct.

 

They can afford $150 million payrolls and contracts that are almost double the biggest in Sox history. How are the fan experiences and expectations similar when they're clearly all-in and willing to sacrifice the future for the present?

 

I'm also quite sure there are not 400+ pages dedicated to Yoenis Cespedes on their boards even though they made a bigger offer.

 

 

As far as compensation picks go, we've run that topic into the ground for weeks. There's not anything particularly new or insightful to add that hasn't already been covered at length.

I don't say this to be mean but by the time I finished reading this post, I heard Ozzie's voice with Randy Rhoads' guitar licks wailing in the background.

 

Moving along.

 

If speculated contract terms are coming out on Fowler, it sounds like Fowler is heading to Baltimore. Where there's smoke...

[Whisox05]

Didn't have service for a while, but can confirm this deal. O's still interested in Fowler as well. https://t.co/Q7B5FVS7i6

https://twitter.com/Britt_Ghiroli/status/701201368602775552