Orioles DO NOT Sign Fowler

[OmarComing25]

There's no question Soler has more value than Avi, but the Cubs probably are overrating him a bit. He's a very poor defender, was bad offensively in spite of an unsustainably high BABIP that's due for regression, and looks like he'll have ongoing injury concerns. I'd rather have Jackson or Jennings. At least they can defend well.

Edited February 2, 2016 by OmarComing25

[Quin]

Cubs' marketing!!! Harry Caray! Babes in the bleachers drinking Buds.

 

I would venture that Soler has about the same value Viciedo did after 2012.

 

Um, Viciedo had 25 HRs (compared to 10) and higher OPS. And while both are terrible defensively, Viciedo at least had a cannon of an arm.

[caulfield12]

Um, Viciedo had 25 HRs (compared to 10) and higher OPS. And while both are terrible defensively, Viciedo at least had a cannon of an arm.

 

 

Yes, but Soler has the ability to put up a higher OBP imo.

 

Not taking walks and swinging at pitches outside of the zone (especially high fastballs) just killed his career. Along with the defensive falloff after 2012.

 

That and the post-season run give Soler a burst of added value, but the Cubs would be better off holding onto Soler/Baez (one of them), whichever they believe has the most upside. It's quite possible they're not ready to sell low on either guy. The problem is where are they going to find enough at-bats for both of them to increase their value? Baez tearing up AAA again doesn't help much.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/32558/jorge-soler

If you combine his stats over two years, you get a 758 OPS, 15 homers and 67 RBI's in 455 at-bats, they're actually close to identical from an offensive standpoint.

Edited February 2, 2016 by caulfield12

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

We have Soler, his name is Avi Garcia.

 

Uh...no.

[Knackattack]

Avi sucks really bad, Soler just sucked. Either of them could become really good but it's more likely for Soler since he only sucks and doesn't suck really bad.

[Bob Sacamano]

Let's see Soler play a full season. This year is big for both (assuming both play every day).

Edited February 2, 2016 by soxfan2014

[BlackSox13]

Basically, moving Fowler from center field to right field minimizes his biggest asset, his speed, while emphasizing his arm, a consistent problem. Bad jumps, reads, and routes, his biggest problem, won't be fixed at all by the move to right.

 

A move to left field is another option for Fowler It helps to lessen the impact of Fowler's arm, but then you have to find a new place for Melky Cabrera. Right field for Melky is another bad idea. DH would work, but then Adam LaRoche is left on the bench and you still need a right fielder. In other words, we have a whole new can of worms to deal with.

 

http://www.royalsreview.com/2016/2/3/10900...ects-the-royals

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

Fowler > Garcia, therefore Fowler improves the defense.

[Dick Allen]

I would put Fowler in CF, Eaton in RF, and keep Melky in LF. If the team stays reasonably healthy and the key players can avoid the DL, it contends with any team in the AL Central.

[southsider2k5]

Fowler > Garcia, therefore Fowler improves the defense.

 

Either Fowler or Ethier really improves the team. Each one brings something that Garcia has not brought to this point.

[southsider2k5]

I would put Fowler in CF, Eaton in RF, and keep Melky in LF. If the team stays reasonably healthy and the key players can avoid the DL, it contends with any team in the AL Central.

 

I think if Fowler is signed, Eaton makes the most sense for RF.

[BlackSox13]

Fowler > Garcia, therefore Fowler improves the defense.

Yep, I agree. I get where the article is coming from but the article also neglects to point out that despite Fowler's defense, he's still an upgrade over Avi so the defense does improve.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I'm not positive that Fowler is a better defender than Eaton is.

[SoCalSox]

Yep, I agree. I get where the article is coming from but the article also neglects to point out that despite Fowler's defense, he's still an upgrade over Avi so the defense does improve.

 

Honestly, I think moving Eaton to RF would be a smart move. He has a lot of trouble reading liners in CF & I think that may be helped in RF.

 

I know that I had a much easier time reading the ball period playing RF that I did play LF or CF. Just something about reading the ball off the bat.

 

Eaton also has the speed & arm to play anywhere in the OF, so that's why it also makes sense.

 

I think some people are really underrating how big of an impact Fowler could have if signed. It's almost a no-brainer to me.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Honestly, I think moving Eaton to RF would be a smart move. He has a lot of trouble reading liners in CF & I think that may be helped in RF.

 

I know that I had a much easier time reading the ball period playing RF that I did play LF or CF. Just something about reading the ball off the bat.

 

Eaton also has the speed & arm to play anywhere in the OF, so that's why it also makes sense.

 

I think some people are really underrating how big of an impact Fowler could have if signed. It's almost a no-brainer to me.

 

 

I thought Fowler was better vs RHP.

[BlackSox13]

Honestly, I think moving Eaton to RF would be a smart move. He has a lot of trouble reading liners in CF & I think that may be helped in RF.

 

I know that I had a much easier time reading the ball period playing RF that I did play LF or CF. Just something about reading the ball off the bat.

 

Eaton also has the speed & arm to play anywhere in the OF, so that's why it also makes sense.

 

I think some people are really underrating how big of an impact Fowler could have if signed. It's almost a no-brainer to me.

Somewhere in one of the numerous outfielders threads, it was debated as to where to play the outfielders if Fowler was signed. According to fangraphs, Fowler is a slight upgrade in CF over Eaton and I think Eaton could play better RF defense than Melky and certainly better than Avi.

[Dick Allen]

Somewhere in one of the numerous outfielders threads, it was debated as to where to play the outfielders if Fowler was signed. According to fangraphs, Fowler is a slight upgrade in CF over Eaton and I think Eaton could play better RF defense than Melky and certainly better than Avi.

I agree, plus if you moved Eaton to LF and Melky to RF, that is moving 2 guys different places. Moving one is OK, and it makes more sense anyway IMO.

[Balta1701]

Somewhere in one of the numerous outfielders threads, it was debated as to where to play the outfielders if Fowler was signed. According to fangraphs, Fowler is a slight upgrade in CF over Eaton and I think Eaton could play better RF defense than Melky and certainly better than Avi.

The problem is - the numbers in CF are completely unclear. Last year, Fowler was a better defender than Eaton in CF, Eaton was a poor defender and Fowler was close to average. However, in 2014, Eaton was close to average and Fowler was abjectly terrible, worse than Eaton was in 2015. So somehow Fowler went from godawful to ok and Eaton went from ok to poor. Adding in previous years for Fowler does not help - he bounced between poor and average in years before that also.

 

If you can predict which one of them will be better next year go ahead. I have no idea. They could both be terrible, they could both be ok, one could be ok and the other terrible, and I find no way in the available stats to offer a prediction.

[Dick Allen]

Ethier would be fine, but he most likely would cost players, plus he is 34 coming off his best year in a while, and he is switching leagues, so there may be an adjustment period. Fowler's offensive numbers in Houston were pretty stellar. Plus Fowler can play CF.

[SoCalSox]

The problem is - the numbers in CF are completely unclear. Last year, Fowler was a better defender than Eaton in CF, Eaton was a poor defender and Fowler was close to average. However, in 2014, Eaton was close to average and Fowler was abjectly terrible, worse than Eaton was in 2015. So somehow Fowler went from godawful to ok and Eaton went from ok to poor. Adding in previous years for Fowler does not help - he bounced between poor and average in years before that also.

 

If you can predict which one of them will be better next year go ahead. I have no idea. They could both be terrible, they could both be ok, one could be ok and the other terrible, and I find no way in the available stats to offer a prediction.

 

Also have to take into account with Fowler that he was playing CF in Houston, which to me seems like an awful place to be at that field, especially with that mound thing.

[Eminor3rd]

I'm not positive that Fowler is a better defender than Eaton is.

 

I'm not either. But it seems like he's faster, and Eaton may have a better arm.

[bear_brian]

The problem is - the numbers in CF are completely unclear. Last year, Fowler was a better defender than Eaton in CF, Eaton was a poor defender and Fowler was close to average. However, in 2014, Eaton was close to average and Fowler was abjectly terrible, worse than Eaton was in 2015. So somehow Fowler went from godawful to ok and Eaton went from ok to poor. Adding in previous years for Fowler does not help - he bounced between poor and average in years before that also.

 

If you can predict which one of them will be better next year go ahead. I have no idea. They could both be terrible, they could both be ok, one could be ok and the other terrible, and I find no way in the available stats to offer a prediction.

 

About a week ago, someone posted that Cub management had told Fowler to play a deeper CF last year, and he seemed to play much better defense. Perhaps that is the reason for the discrepancies.

 

[Balta1701]

Also have to take into account with Fowler that he was playing CF in Houston, which to me seems like an awful place to be at that field, especially with that mound thing.

he also bounced between being a poor and average defender in Colorado. Quick check of his defensive value (position adjusted)

 

2009: -14.4

2010: -2.7

2011: -3.1

2012: -11.9

2013: -0.3

2014: -20.6

2015: 0.6

 

And just so it's here, Eaton:

2013 (1/2 season): -11.2

2014: -1.6

2015: -8.8

 

You find a pattern in that good enough to use for prediction, I can't. Both of them have bounced between poor and average, with one "terrible" season thrown in by Fowler. You could very easily shift one of them and have the guy who stays in that spot put up a "poor/terrible" season.

[BlackSox13]

The problem is - the numbers in CF are completely unclear. Last year, Fowler was a better defender than Eaton in CF, Eaton was a poor defender and Fowler was close to average. However, in 2014, Eaton was close to average and Fowler was abjectly terrible, worse than Eaton was in 2015. So somehow Fowler went from godawful to ok and Eaton went from ok to poor. Adding in previous years for Fowler does not help - he bounced between poor and average in years before that also.

 

If you can predict which one of them will be better next year go ahead. I have no idea. They could both be terrible, they could both be ok, one could be ok and the other terrible, and I find no way in the available stats to offer a prediction.

I know what you mean. I have no clue what changed with Eaton from '14 to '15. At this point, I would move Eaton to RF because he has the arm for it.

[Dick Allen]

I know what you mean. I have no clue what changed with Eaton from '14 to '15. At this point, I would move Eaton to RF because he has the arm for it.

He's probably better suited for RF than Fowler. It all might be moot, but I really think the Sox will sign Fowler.