Orioles DO NOT Sign Fowler

[BlackSox13]

Yet they won the division with 92 wins. They lost in the playoffs because the Mets pitching staff was so good. That had nothing to do with chemistry.

I don't disagree with that, just don't agree with winning builds team chemistry. Winning helps but it didn't help in the case of at least four known players to have problems with Puig. On one occasion Puig and Grienke had to be separated and on another occasion Puig and Turner had to be seperated. Obviously he didn't get along well with some of his teammates, or his own sister for that matter. Puig is a problem the Sox don't need.

[BlackSox13]

The counterargument is Kemp, Puig, Hanley and Co. all got along great in that second half of 2013 when they went like 42-9.

 

Part of the problem is having too much talent on one team and players being benched is that it leads to jealousy (see Cavs) when not every player is treated in the same way. Mattingly let Puig get away with a lot his rookie year and then it was difficult to get the genie back in the bottle.

I don't buy it for a second. Why would Puig be jealous over Van Slyke who's a backup OF or Turner who plays 3B or Kershaw/Greinke whom are starting pitchers? Nothing to be jealous of. Puig is just an asshole, plain and simple.

[caulfield12]

I don't buy it for a second. Why would Puig be jealous over Van Slyke who's a backup OF or Turner who plays 3B or Kershaw/Greinke whom are starting pitchers? Nothing to be jealous of. Puig is just an asshole, plain and simple.

 

You have it backwards. Maybe not jealous, but they felt it wasn't fair or right.

 

As far as characterizing someone in that way, everyone says the same about AJ Pierzynski.

 

Unless we grew up in the same exact situation in Cuba, had buscones and shadowy hitmen threatening our lives and numerous attempts to flee your country and leaving family behind...then he had very little time in the minors to make an adjustment and at the age of 22 you're the biggest star/phenom in the majors for half a season.

 

I'm not sure how many people in the world are equipped to deal with it all. Probably the same percentage of huge lottery winners who are still happier ten years after winning than the day they won.

 

I know Molly Knight has her book and her own agenda, but if the case was so simple Puig would be on another team right now. Clayton Kershaw would have bucked against doing a promotional camp down in Cuba along with Puig and the disgruntled teammates would have forced a trade. It's also no surprise from following Greinke his entire career in KC that he clashes with as many if not more people than Puig.

Edited February 4, 2016 by caulfield12

[BlackSox13]

You have it backwards. Maybe not jealous, but they felt it wasn't fair or right.

 

As far as characterizing someone in that way, everyone says the same about AJ Pierzynski.

 

Unless we grew up in the same exact situation in Cuba, had buscones and shadowy hitmen threatening our lives and numerous attempts to flee your country and leaving family behind...then he had very little time in the minors to make an adjustment and at the age of 22 you're the biggest star/phenom in the majors for half a season.

 

I'm not sure how many people in the world are equipped to deal with it all. Probably the same percentage of huge lottery winners who are still happier ten years after winning than the day they won.

 

I know Molly Knight has her book and her own agenda, but if the case was so simple Puig would be on another team right now. Clayton Kershaw would have bucked against doing a promotional camp down in Cuba along with Puig and the disgruntled teammates would have forced a trade. It's also no surprise from following Greinke his entire career in KC that he clashes with as many if not more people than Puig.

You're putting words in their mouths by saying they were jealous of Puig. Turner wasn't even with the Dodgers when Puig became the Dodgers starting OF in '13, Greinke and Kershaw have NOTHING to be jealous over with Puig, so that leaves Van Slyke and not a shred of evidence to support Van Slyke being jealous of Puig. It wasn't fair or right? This is the MLB, not romper room. Good grief, somebody call the whambulance for poor little arrogant Yasiel, its nappy time for him.

 

Bottom line is that when four players on the same team have a problem with one, its likely that the one player is the problem. Let's not forget about Puig's off the field incident this winter. You can make any excuse you like but Puig's biggest problem is Puig, not his teammate's.

 

 

[caulfield12]

It's not so simple as the accounts we get from the media or Molly Knight, because that's only 5-10% of it.

 

It's not like the White Sox haven't brought in guys like Javy, Swisher, Orlando Cabrera, Carl Everett (he had one of the worst reputations in baseball at one point in his career), AJ Pierzynski, etc. Bobby Jenks, reading all the comments from the Angels organization, you would have thought he was Satan reincarnated but he was a surprisingly pleasant and accessible clubhouse character guy until the very end of his White Sox days.

 

Just because it's supposedly four players, well, you can say the same thing about Adam Eaton in his time with the DBacks...that he was getting on the nerves of almost all of his veteran teammates in AZ. Or with Lawrie and all the of places he has been despite his relative youth. Quite a few swear by the guy, and others say he rubs a lot of his teammates the wrong way. The price of acquisition was almost nothing.

 

Now Todd Frazier, everyone loves the guy...but that doesn't mean the fans will accept a 650 OPS from him, any more than they did from Dunn, Cabrera (who also has his share of detractors, and not just for the PEDs) or LaRoche.

Edited February 4, 2016 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

I don't disagree with that, just don't agree with winning builds team chemistry. Winning helps but it didn't help in the case of at least four known players to have problems with Puig. On one occasion Puig and Grienke had to be separated and on another occasion Puig and Turner had to be seperated. Obviously he didn't get along well with some of his teammates, or his own sister for that matter. Puig is a problem the Sox don't need.

 

Trying working in a place with a bunch of assholes. It makes a difference.

[caulfield12]

Trying working in a place with a bunch of assholes. It makes a difference.

 

 

By that theory, working with Kenny Williams wouldn't exactly be a walk in the park, either.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

The White Sox prefer a left handed OF. They were in on Gordon. Wanted Cespedes but he has reverse splits. The Rogers report that they prefer a LH hitter and Fowler is better as a RH hitter is sort of true, but he is basically the same as Adam Eaton from the left side vs. RH pitchers. Eaton .355 OBP .782 OPS, Fowler .351 OBP .761 OPS. Sign him up and end this now.

[Sockin]

I feel like Fowler really wants to go back to the Cubs.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I feel like Fowler really wants to go back to the Cubs.

 

 

They don't have a spot for him though

[BlackSox13]

Trying working in a place with a bunch of assholes. It makes a difference.

I have, numerous times.

[ChiSox59]

Jon morosi on mlb network said he doesn't see the Sox getting ethier. Said he was the Dodgers best hitter after all star break and they may want to see him going forward. Tho that seems to be his opinion. Also said sox are more heavily involved in the free agent market with fowler and Desmond.

JP Morosi is an idiot. He may have some contacts, but he can't value a player to save his life.

[hogan873]

With the news that there doesn't seem to be a match between the Sox and Dodgers, I would think (hope) that the Sox are looking at Fowler still. He may not be the best upgrade we could have hoped for, but he would certainly be an upgrade over Avi. Having Eaton and Fowler at the top of the lineup would be great for Abreu, Frazier, and Melky.

 

I'm thinking 3/$40 or so would probably get the job done.

[fathom]

Just an uneducated guess, but I wonder if the Sox don't believe Fowler is a good fit defensively. Hahn keeps saying that they need someone who would be a good fit, and with them going after only corner outfielders this offseason, it seems to me they might want to keep Eaton in CF and move Melky or Avi to DH.

[southsider2k5]

Just an uneducated guess, but I wonder if the Sox don't believe Fowler is a good fit defensively. Hahn keeps saying that they need someone who would be a good fit, and with them going after only corner outfielders this offseason, it seems to me they might want to keep Eaton in CF and move Melky or Avi to DH.

 

If I had to guess, it is all about money.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Yep. If Fowler was looking for 4/60, and the draft pick attached is around $10 million on the open market, that knocks his value down. A 3 year deal for something around $36-$38 million is probably what the White Sox are willing to do.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

If Fowler wanted a deal exactly like what Melky got last year, would you guys be ok with the Sox signing him?

Edited February 5, 2016 by ChiSoxFanMike

[southsider2k5]

Yep. If Fowler was looking for 4/60, and the draft pick attached is around $10 million on the open market, that knocks his value down. A 3 year deal for something around $36-$38 million is probably what the White Sox are willing to do.

 

I bet the Sox are looking at Howie Kendricks deal as a baseline.

[SCCWS]

 

 

It is interesting that the eventual signing of Cespedes did not trigger a domino effect w Jackson or Fowler as some speculated. Maybe there is a very limited market for them so the contenders are in no hurry to make quick decisions.

[southsider2k5]

It is interesting that the eventual signing of Cespedes did not trigger a domino effect w Jackson or Fowler as some speculated. Maybe there is a very limited market for them so the contenders are in no hurry to make quick decisions.

 

This is the most nontraditional market place I can ever remember. I never remember this many starter quality players sitting on the sidelines this late in the off-season.

[bear_brian]

My belief is that Fowler is waiting for the Cubs to settle Arrieta's arbitration case. After that is done, the Cubs will either have the available cash for Fowler or not, and things will then proceed accordingly.

[Y2Jimmy0]

My belief is that Fowler is waiting for the Cubs to settle Arrieta's arbitration case. After that is done, the Cubs will either have the available cash for Fowler or not, and things will then proceed accordingly.

 

 

I doubt it. They don't have a spot unless they move Soler and they'd almost be selling low. I also think that they'd like to draft in the 2nd round, which losing Fowler allows them to do.

[OmarComing25]

My belief is that Fowler is waiting for the Cubs to settle Arrieta's arbitration case. After that is done, the Cubs will either have the available cash for Fowler or not, and things will then proceed accordingly.

The middle of the two sides with Arrieta and the Cubs is ~$10 million, which is the most likely scenario. At worst it's an extra $3 million than expected, which I don't think is enough to hold up a possible deal. The bigger problem with the Cubs is opening up a spot for Fowler, not paying him. My guess is they wanted to trade Soler, but don't like the offers out there and don't want to sell low on him.

[BlackSox13]

Soler isn't the guy the cubs need to trade, its Coghlan. We all know that Soler is horrible in RF so a Fowler signing gives the cubs a switch hitter in CF, Heyward's LHB in RF and Soler's RHB platooing LF with Schwarber's LHB. Coghlan and his LHB should be the odd man out. Now, finding a trade for Cophlan is another story.

 

Imo, the cubs are waiting to see what happens with Arrieta and hoping Fowler will sign a one year deal while advocating to him the benefits of re-entering FA next year in a thinner talent pool of outfielders. Just a guess on my part.

[southsider2k5]

Soler isn't the guy the cubs need to trade, its Coghlan. We all know that Soler is horrible in RF so a Fowler signing gives the cubs a switch hitter in CF, Heyward's LHB in RF and Soler's RHB platooing LF with Schwarber's LHB. Coghlan and his LHB should be the odd man out. Now, finding a trade for Cophlan is another story.

 

Imo, the cubs are waiting to see what happens with Arrieta and hoping Fowler will sign a one year deal while advocating to him the benefits of re-entering FA next year in a thinner talent pool of outfielders. Just a guess on my part.

 

If you look at who the Cubs are trying to sell on, I think they realize that both Baez and Soler are more hype than substance and they are trying to sell on them as quick as possible before their market collapses.