2016 is the 25th anniversary of "New Comiskey Park" or USCF

[Buehrle>Wood]

It seemed they were ready to change the name. They took down the big US Cellular sign behind home plate, then nothing came of it. Guess usc thought it was just worth it.

[Thad Bosley]

For sure, the timing was poor and it's hard to knock Chicago for going with a rather bland design when at that point it's just what you did. At least they kept the park in the City and didn't move it to the burbs. I don't know much about the history of it, was only a young kid when the Cell opened, was there talk of moving out of the south side?

Oh, there sure was. There sure was, the last time being back in the mid-to-late 80s. That was when our current esteemed owner Jerry Reinsdorf, fresh off of the failure of his first get-rich scheme with the SportsVision debacle, turned his greedy attention to the taxpayers of Illinois. He and his co-owners engaged in a highly public and shameful exercise where they literally blackmailed the state into publicly funding the construction of a new stadium for them, one designed to generate revenues the likes of which they could have never seen at the old ballpark.

 

The blackmail came in the form of threats to move our White Sox to Tampa if the state did not only agree to fund the ballpark construction, but also throw in a sweetheart lease deal on top of it to boot. And if not for some last minute, 11th hour efforts in June of 1988 by former Gov. Jim Thompson to convince some legislators to cave into Jerry and his goons, the blackmail would have prevailed and our White Sox would be playing in Tropicana Field today as we speak.

 

Jerry Reinsdorf - what a guy, eh? He's sure done a mighty fine job of getting a huge return on his investment in the Sox over these past 35 years. Too bad the White Sox faithful can't say the same.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[Panerista]

Oh, there sure was. There sure was, the last time being back in the mid-to-late 80s. That was when our current esteemed owner Jerry Reinsdorf, fresh off of the failure of his first get-rich scheme with the SportsVision debacle, turned his greedy attention to the taxpayers of Illinois. He and his co-owners engaged in a highly public and shameful exercise where they literally blackmailed the state into publicly funding the construction of a new stadium for them, one designed to generate revenues the likes of which they could have never seen at the old ballpark.

 

The blackmail came in the form of threats to move our White Sox to Tampa if the state did not only agree to fund the ballpark construction, but also throw in a sweetheart lease deal on top of it to boot. And if not for some last minute, 11th hour efforts in June of 1988 by former Gov. Jim Thompson to convince some legislatures to cave into those goons, the blackmail would have prevailed and our White Sox would be playing in Tropicana Field today as we speak.

 

Jerry Reinsdorf - what a guy. He's done a mighty fine job of getting a huge return on his investment in the Sox over these past 35 years. Too bad the White Sox faithful can't say the same thing.

I like this guy.

[caulfield12]

If you do think about it objectively, and remove the White Sox being your favorite team from the equation...it's pretty hard to look at the politics of it as well as the cost to taxpayers (especially in light of current budget problems) and feel it was a good deal in terms of the overall public interest of all residents of the State of Illinois.

 

In that sense, this is just what the rich people in our country do...take advantage of tax loopholes, social connections, political donations, bankruptcy law, tax havens. Do you blame the system itself or primarily the individual actors within that system?

 

In this case, the ballclub (increasing valuation/ROI) itself has certainly accrued more benefits than the public. So it comes down to putting a dollar figure on 2005 whether that was worth it for the city and state.

 

Florida taxpayers would undoubtedly disagree their two World Series winners in Miami were worth it, overall. Or football fans in St. Louis.

[Dick Allen]

But why would Jerry Reinsdorf be the bad guy? Wouldn't the elected officials that are supposed to have your best interests in mind be the one's at fault? It isn't a good deal for the taxpayers. The argument is it is a hotel tax so out of towers are really picking up the tab, but still it is money that could be used elsewhere. they were able to make renovations at no cost to the taxpayers other than those pissed off about a name change.

 

 

[Thad Bosley]

But why would Jerry Reinsdorf be the bad guy? Wouldn't the elected officials that are supposed to have your best interests in mind be the one's at fault? It isn't a good deal for the taxpayers. The argument is it is a hotel tax so out of towers are really picking up the tab, but still it is money that could be used elsewhere. they were able to make renovations at no cost to the taxpayers other than those pissed off about a name change.

LMAO!

 

Why would your apparent hero Jerry Reinsdorf be the "bad guy" in this situation? Ooooohhhhhh, I dunno. The threats to move to Tampa if all of his greedy demands weren't met is the first thing that leaps to mind. I don't suppose you could consider Uncle Jer & his shameful co-owners AND the elected officials to all be the bad guys in what went down when this deal was made. Seems pretty obvious that all the major players failed either Sox fans, taxpayers, or both, don't you think?

[Dick Allen]

LMAO!

 

Why would your apparent hero Jerry Reinsdorf be the "bad guy" in this situation? Ooooohhhhhh, I dunno. The threats to move to Tampa if all of his greedy demands weren't met is the first thing that leaps to mind. I don't suppose you could consider Uncle Jer & his shameful co-owners AND the elected officials to all be the bad guys in what went down when this deal was made. Seems pretty obvious that all the major players failed either Sox fans, taxpayers, or both, don't you think?

Then you let him leave. He even said the Governor told him to get a new city so he could use it as leverage. The White Sox, like every other company, try to get what they can from the state and the city. They have an entity that creates revenue for the city and state.The question would be has the state made their money back with this deal. What has the tax on sales at the ballpark, team employees, even visiting players added up to over the years? How many are employed paying taxes instead of unemployed collecting welfare? The state is probably still in the red I would guess. I am totally against publicly funded stadiums, but if a team can get one, they aren't the bad guy. do you resent Boeing for the sweetheart deal they received to move their headquarters , even though not many jobs to Chicago? Do you resent the Bears who basically doubled their franchise value with a Soldier Field rehab that is using the same tax the White Sox stadium uses? If you held getting a deal from the state or city against companies, you would have a lot of conflict every time you went out to eat, or buy some clothes, or put gas in your tank. Reinsdorf did what any competent business leader would do. He got his sweetheart deal both with the stadium and the lease, and then he even got the lease renewed.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Thad Bosley]

Then you let him leave. He even said the Governor told him to get a new city so he could use it as leverage. The White Sox, like every other company, try to get what they can from the state and the city. They have an entity that creates revenue for the city and state.The question would be has the state made their money back with this deal. What has the tax on sales at the ballpark, team employees, even visiting players added up to over the years? How many are employed paying taxes instead of unemployed collecting welfare? The state is probably still in the red I would guess. I am totally against publicly funded stadiums, but if a team can get one, they aren't the bad guy. do you resent Boeing for the sweetheart deal they received to move their headquarters , even though not many jobs to Chicago? Do you resent the Bears who basically doubled their franchise value with a Soldier Field rehab that is using the same tax the White Sox stadium uses? If you held getting a deal from the state or city against companies, you would have a lot of conflict every time you went out to eat, or buy some clothes, or put gas in your tank. Reinsdorf did what any competent business leader would do. He got his sweetheart deal both with the stadium and the lease, and then he even got the lease renewed.

I don't think anyone is questioning Reinsdorf's "competence" as a business leader. His hardcore tactics we've discussed in his threats and blackmail to move the team away from Chicago if the state didn't put in place an agreement that guaranteed he and his investors extraordinary wealth is evidence of that.

 

He is still a bad guy. A very bad guy, as it relates to being the owner of this team we love.

 

The fact he had the audacity to approach the Illinois legislature and pull them away from the important jobs we elect them to do to work on putting together a deal whose only goal was to make he and his owners rich beyond their wildest dreams was purely disgraceful. Don't you think all of the revenue raised through this deal to make Jerry Reinsdorf a very rich man could have been better spent elsewhere for the greater good of the state? No, make all of the excuses you want for this guy, but he has been bad for the White Sox brand since the day he arrived on our doorstep in 1981. Very much looking forward to the next ownership group.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[Dick Allen]

I don't think anyone is questioning Reinsdorf's "competence" as a business leader. His hardcore tactics we've discussed in his threats and blackmail to move the team away from Chicago if the state didn't put in place an agreement that guaranteed he and his investors extraordinary wealth is evidence of that.

 

He is still a bad guy. A very bad guy, as it relates to being the owner of this team we love.

 

The fact he had the audacity to approach the Illinois legislature and pull them away from the important jobs we elect them to do to work on putting together a deal whose only goal was to make he and his owners rich beyond their wildest dreams was purely disgraceful. Don't you think all of the revenue raised through this deal to make Jerry Reinsdorf a very rich man could have been better spent elsewhere for the greater good of the state? No, make all of the excuses you want for this guy, but he has been bad for the White Sox brand since the day he arrived on our doorstep in 1981. Very much looking forward to the next ownership group.

LMAO. LMAO.

[Thad Bosley]

LMAO. LMAO.

Out of bullets again, eh? Well that didn't take long. Dick Allen?

 

 

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

The irony here is that fans would be more willing to excuse all that if he hadn't followed Selig's wishes in 1994 against the interests of his own team, about holding down spending for free agents/collusion (Belle for one year was one of the few exceptions), about not overspending on the draft, and now it would be pretty surprising if we went over the cap for intl. spending as well when smaller budget iteams like the Rays, Royals, Braves and DBacks have gone over or currently are planning to do so.

 

He was on the inside with Selig all that time, the definition of the establishment...until he lost the power struggle which ended up with Manfred as commissioner and broke from Selig in favor of trying to form his own cabal.

 

So whatever invisible advantages we had from aligning with Bud all that time have been lost.

 

In the meantime, a not insignificant percentage of the White Sox fanbase at least partially blames the other half for the failures of the franchise. It's a pretty amazing trick to pull off, from a public relations standpoint.

 

 

[ewokpelts]

If you do think about it objectively, and remove the White Sox being your favorite team from the equation...it's pretty hard to look at the politics of it as well as the cost to taxpayers (especially in light of current budget problems) and feel it was a good deal in terms of the overall public interest of all residents of the State of Illinois.

 

In that sense, this is just what the rich people in our country do...take advantage of tax loopholes, social connections, political donations, bankruptcy law, tax havens. Do you blame the system itself or primarily the individual actors within that system?

 

In this case, the ballclub (increasing valuation/ROI) itself has certainly accrued more benefits than the public. So it comes down to putting a dollar figure on 2005 whether that was worth it for the city and state.

 

Florida taxpayers would undoubtedly disagree their two World Series winners in Miami were worth it, overall. Or football fans in St. Louis.

Jim Thompson said in 2011 that the tax revenue generated directly from Sox park totaled 200 million from 1991-2011. The initial construction cost? $168 million. And that's not factoring in the hotel tax, which pays for the bonds.

 

[caulfield12]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-11...e-soldier-field

 

See second and last paragraphs...

[caulfield12]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-11...e-soldier-field

 

See second and last paragraphs...

[Dick Allen]

Out of bullets again, eh? Well that didn't take long. Dick Allen?

 

Not out of bullets. You are just being irrational. Are you pissed off at JR for not picking up the tab for the World Series parade?

 

It amazes me how you blame JR for everything.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Dick Allen

[WBWSF]

Always remember the following:

1) The City of Chicago offered to build a new baseball stadium for the White Sox in the South Loop at Roosevelt and Clark.

2) JR turned down the offer and wanted to build a stadium in Addison/DuPage county. Keep in mind that the stadium would of been built with tax payer money on land owned by JR.

3) When the stadium in Addison didn't work out, the City of Chicago offer in the south Loop was off the table.

4) The State of Illinois agreed to build the new park at its present location. If they hadn't agreed to that the White Sox would have moved to Florida.

5) I've tried to simplify this as much as possible but JR should have taken the original offer from the City of Chicago and had the new stadium built in the South Loop. EVERYBODY would have been better off. The White Sox franchise, the White Sox fans and the City of Chicago. Its bad enough the stadium was built where it is now, JR is responsible for the miserable upper deck which nobody likes and has ruined the park. The lower deck is wonderful and the upper deck sucks.

6) Sometime, somewhere and someday the White Sox will have a new owner. The new owner is going to inherit a franchise that has a stadium in a location that is not popular and a stadium with a lousy upper deck. It will be interesting to see if the new owner tries to get another stadium for the White Sox or if he renews the lease when it expires in 2027.

7) Looking back at the whole situation I wish JR would not have bought the White Sox. I wish DeBartolo would have purchased the team.

[Dick Allen]

Always remember the following:

1) The City of Chicago offered to build a new baseball stadium for the White Sox in the South Loop at Roosevelt and Clark.

2) JR turned down the offer and wanted to build a stadium in Addison/DuPage county. Keep in mind that the stadium would of been built with tax payer money on land owned by JR.

3) When the stadium in Addison didn't work out, the City of Chicago offer in the south Loop was off the table.

4) The State of Illinois agreed to build the new park at its present location. If they hadn't agreed to that the White Sox would have moved to Florida.

5) I've tried to simplify this as much as possible but JR should have taken the original offer from the City of Chicago and had the new stadium built in the South Loop. EVERYBODY would have been better off. The White Sox franchise, the White Sox fans and the City of Chicago. Its bad enough the stadium was built where it is now, JR is responsible for the miserable upper deck which nobody likes and has ruined the park. The lower deck is wonderful and the upper deck sucks.

6) Sometime, somewhere and someday the White Sox will have a new owner. The new owner is going to inherit a franchise that has a stadium in a location that is not popular and a stadium with a lousy upper deck. It will be interesting to see if the new owner tries to get another stadium for the White Sox or if he renews the lease when it expires in 2027.

7) Looking back at the whole situation I wish JR would not have bought the White Sox. I wish DeBartolo would have purchased the team.

The miserable upper deck is standard at every park built the last 25 years.

[WBWSF]

The miserable upper deck might be standard for most parks the last 25 years but that still doesn't make it acceptable. JR changed the original design because he wanted more levels of suites. It has ruined the park and most people don't like it up there and don't want to sit up there. I've been a season ticket holder for years, through the good times and the bad times. If they ever moved my tickets upstairs in the upper deck, I wouldn't renew. You're better off watching it on TV rather than sitting up there.

[caulfield12]

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7815788_steepest...ted-states.html

 

The only MLB stadium that has the same rake or slant is Kauffman...which makes sense since that was the principal HOK model minus the fountains/outfield bleachers and concourse.

 

 

http://baseball-fever.com/archive/index.php/t-80181.html

Edited February 6, 2016 by caulfield12

[MHizzle85]

Am I the only one who doesn't hate the upper deck? I think the upper deck behind home plate is probably my favorite place to watch a game at USCF.

[southsider2k5]

But why would Jerry Reinsdorf be the bad guy? Wouldn't the elected officials that are supposed to have your best interests in mind be the one's at fault? It isn't a good deal for the taxpayers. The argument is it is a hotel tax so out of towers are really picking up the tab, but still it is money that could be used elsewhere. they were able to make renovations at no cost to the taxpayers other than those pissed off about a name change.

 

It is the exact same thing that about 100 other sports teams have done over that time frame. But its Jerry, so he is evil. Literally every single other professional sports team in the city of Chicago has gotten a taxpayer funded stadium or stadium improvements. Hell in the last month 3 football teams tried to leave their towns because they didn't get what they wanted.

[cabiness42]

Am I the only one who doesn't hate the upper deck? I think the upper deck behind home plate is probably my favorite place to watch a game at USCF.

 

Nothing specific to USCF, but I don't really like watching a game from the upper deck anywhere.

[Thad Bosley]

The miserable upper deck is standard at every park built the last 25 years.

Wrong again. Quite wrong, actually. Name one other stadium that is as architecturally flawed as was the new Comiskey Park where they built an upper deck with the same obnoxious incline AND complicated matters by putting the opening to that deck down at the base, vs. somewhere in the middle. Talk about discrimination. One might infer they didn't want any elderly and/or obese people sitting in the upper rows given how difficult it would be to get up there, and never mind any up and down trips needed to go the bathroom, etc.

 

Reinsdorf admits he screwed up big time on that upper deck, which would explain why he ended up lopping off about nine rows back in the early 2000s. Has that been standard, too, Dick Allen? Has any other team gone in and taken a buzz saw to their upper deck and literally taken out a third of it? No? Yeah, didn't think so. Hence, the rather wrong nature of you claiming the new Comiskey/USCF upper deck is somewhat par for the course.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[Dick Allen]

Wrong again. Quite wrong, actually. Name one other stadium that is as architecturally flawed as was the new Comiskey Park where they built an upper deck with the same obnoxious incline AND complicated matters by putting the opening to that deck down at the base, vs. somewhere in the middle. Talk about discrimination. One might infer they didn't want any elderly and/or obese people sitting in the upper rows given how difficult it would be to get up there, and never mind any up and down trips needed to go the bathroom, etc.

 

Reinsdorf admits he screwed up big time on that upper deck, which would explain why he ended up lopping off about nine rows back in the early 2000s. Has that been standard, too, Dick Allen? Has any other team gone in and taken a buzz saw to their upper deck and literally taken out a third of it? No? Yeah, didn't think so. Hence, the rather wrong nature of you claiming the new Comiskey/USCF upper deck is somewhat par for the course.

After reading this post, I think the vast majority would think your obsession with Jerry Reinsdorf is very unhealthy.

 

All new upper decks are high and far from the field. If they aren't as inclined, they will be even farther from the field. Go to a newer stadium and take a picture from the 10th row of their top deck and take it from the 10th row at UsCF, and then tell us other than Jerry Reinsdorf is responsible, why USCF is worse.

Just for fun I googled Miller Park upper deck. Tell me why that is better than what Sox fans have.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Thad Bosley]

After reading this post, I think the vast majority would think your obsession with Jerry Reinsdorf is very unhealthy.

LMAO! Who's talking about Reinsdorf? I thought we were talking about the USCF upper deck, whose construction you tried to somehow pass off as "standard"? If you have nothing else to say on the matter, then just don't say anything. It's really that easy.

 

As for Mr. Reinsdorf, since you brought him up yet again, the only thing "unhealthy" is the effect he's had on the White Sox organization throughout his tenure as owner. You know it, I know it. As the Cubs benefitted by getting out from under the long term yet highly ineffective ownership of the Tribune Co. a few years ago, so will the White Sox come the post-Reinsdorf era, whenever that is.