2016-2017 NFL Thread

[Soxfest]

I mean, we aren't close to firing Pace. But he has to get better. He has let more talent go than he's brought in. It's okay, he wanted to build a team through something other than free agency but we aren't seeing any impact talent. But Loggains is may be hurting our offensive development. Dude is maybe the worst in a long line of bad OCs

He makes Schoop look good.

[chw42]

Hoyer makes Cutler look really good.

[SoxAce]

I think the roster is a bigger problem than the coach.

 

Two high first round draft picks for Pace are still wild cards, that's not good on today's NFL

 

Yep. Pace has done well with the second round and later picks (Whitehair, Goldman, Bullard, Bush, Amos, etc.) but you absolutely need to hit on the 1st round picks. Those are your cornerstones. Every other player selected is a bonus if they become pro bowl talents.

 

[bmags]

Bill Connelly of SBN has this metric called havoc rate, which basically takes all of the plays where a defense has a TFL, pass breakup, int, sack, etc and divides it by total plays. It is a good stat to see what type of defense coaches angle for. I mention because I feel like the bears defense through three games has to have lowest havoc rate of all time.

[chw42]

Good to see the Bears at least trying some deeper routes.

[SoxAce]

Nice game from Zach Miller.

[chw42]

We came out way too conservative on offense. You can definitely run some of the deeper routes vs. Dallas. Their line doesn't bring a whole lot of pressure.

[SoxAce]

Wow.. Kevin White.

[chw42]

Good to see Kevin White getting more targets.

[The Beast]

1.) The McCaskeys are part of the problem, is what I thought when I saw Virginia McCaskey in the box.

2.) Football is not an individual sport, so the blame can't be solely on Cutler when the defense isn't stopping anyone on downs that matter. There are so many holes outside of the QB position, it's not even funny.

3.) I don't know why it isn't obvious to Cutler haters that they can just wait this year out, let the guaranteed money get paid and they can draft a young QB in the first four rounds. Then again, they need more defensive help than a QB.

4.) Meatheads will say Hoyer should be the starter the rest of the year and that he is better than Cutler. Or say he doesn't care because he's not passionate on the field. Tools.

[SoxAce]

Massie trips Hoyer resulting in fumble. He's been bad so far this year.

[Bananarchy]

The Bears are horrible. The Cowboys aren't very good and the Bears looked terrible against them.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The Bears aren't very good but it's overreaction city on defense. They are down their 3 best players: Goldman, McPhee, and Trevathan. Also missing Fuller and Callahan. Next man up is just a cute thing that coaches say. But when "Next man up" is a guy that sucks, this is what happens. Their decimated defense isn't good enough to withstand getting nothing from the offense. If you could guarantee me the #1 or #2 pick right now I'd take it but I don't believe they will be that awful once Cutler returns. They have absolutely no depth, their offense and OC are bad, and they are decimated by injuries.

[Kyyle23]

The Bears aren't very good but it's overreaction city on defense. They are down their 3 best players: Goldman, McPhee, and Trevathan. Also missing Fuller and Callahan. Next man up is just a cute thing that coaches say. But when "Next man up" is a guy that sucks, this is what happens. Their decimated defense isn't good enough to withstand getting nothing from the offense. If you could guarantee me the #1 or #2 pick right now I'd take it but I don't believe they will be that awful once Cutler returns. They have absolutely no depth, their offense and OC are bad, and they are decimated by injuries.

 

The offense leaves the defense on the field all game, and that makes them look infinitely worse than they actually are. Loggains gotsta go, dude has no plan. Its just like he is picking plays from a hat

[Chisoxfn]

I'm thinking Ryan Pace isn't very good. It will be interesting if Fox survives this season as Bears coach. schefter was on the radio saying it would be wrong to think he's back next year no matter what.

I can't see us moving away from Fox this early or Pace and to be frank, I think it would be a mistake. They are truly rebuilding and the last time this franchise had rebuilt was early in the Lovie Smith era (and it wasn't very long). That is a long time without rebuilding. Now we probably should have rebuild sooner, but the front office didn't have that plan. We need to find a QB and we need to develop young players. I think we should see signs point up when we get the full unit back and get our young players more experience. Our defense is going to struggle given the weakness in the secondary to go with the fact that we don't have enough of a pass rush (and well, I don't really know who would have expected us to have a ton of it either, we don't have a dynamic pass rusher...yet...hopefully Floyd can emerge as part of that equation).

 

Offensively, it has been rough, but totally overhauled line last minute, brand new running backs, new tight ends, rookie wideout (by all accounts). I expect we'll see improvement as the season goes on. By the way, Howard looks like he's got some potential and White finally had one catch that made you go wow (even though he didn't catch a deep ball he should have had).

[Chisoxfn]

I think the roster is a bigger problem than the coach.

 

Two high first round draft picks for Pace are still wild cards, that's not good on today's NFL

I will say it a lot, but this roster was so bad and it looked to me like the Bears finally realized they had to rebuild at all possible cost and they have done that, but because of how devoid this team was of talent (because we were mediocre for so freaking long), we really were in a spot that our mediocrity was due to veteran players with limited upside vs. young players who were on the rise. We literally had too few young, talented players, and that has to change and we are seeing tons of young blood get development. Next year I expect we'll see things rise (although the critical aspect in all of this will be finding a good young QB who can be groomed all while the defense, etc get groomed).

[Chisoxfn]

The Bears aren't very good but it's overreaction city on defense. They are down their 3 best players: Goldman, McPhee, and Trevathan. Also missing Fuller and Callahan. Next man up is just a cute thing that coaches say. But when "Next man up" is a guy that sucks, this is what happens. Their decimated defense isn't good enough to withstand getting nothing from the offense. If you could guarantee me the #1 or #2 pick right now I'd take it but I don't believe they will be that awful once Cutler returns. They have absolutely no depth, their offense and OC are bad, and they are decimated by injuries.

I am with you and I look forward to seeing our defense when it gets healthier. It won't be great, cause we lack playmakers, but that is something I've been saying for a while. If we can find one or two playmakers (hopefully Floyd becomes one and maybe Goldman becomes another) and we add one more in the draft, then I think we'd have the rest of the pieces to bring it all together (all major ifs, but I hope we get to see Goldman back along with McPhee, Trev, Fuller, etc. and actually see this defense as is. Given we are in a full rebuild, I think we all knew we wouldn't have much depth (given our 1st unit was still being built out, clearly our back-ups aren't going to be top shelf).

[bmags]

I've said it before, but the defense looks so bad because Loggain's offense is not creating sustainable drives. Last year the bears were NINTH in time of possession, and that's why even if our defense was horrible in DVOA, Fangio's extreme bend don't break defense with Gase's offense designed to maximize TOP led to the bears in a lot of close games despite talent.

 

Well, Loggain's offense is currently dead last. And we are seeing what those extra possessions by the opposing offense is doing to the score.

 

That said, every team has injuries. My main concern watching the bears in preseason was how razor thin they were, and even their backups were losing their 1 on 1 matchups. We are 2-3 years of top ten draft picks away from assembling a deep enough core.

Edited September 26, 2016 by bmags

[Chisoxfn]

I've said it before, but the defense looks so bad because Loggain's offense is not creating sustainable drives. Last year the bears were NINTH in time of possession, and that's why even if our defense was horrible in DVOA, Fangio's extreme bend don't break defense with Gase's offense designed to maximize TOP led to the bears in a lot of close games despite talent.

 

Well, Loggain's offense is currently dead last. And we are seeing what those extra possessions by the opposing offense is doing to the score.

 

That said, every team has injuries. My main concern watching the bears in preseason was how razor thin they were, and even their backups were losing their 1 on 1 matchups. We are 2-3 years of top ten draft picks away from assembling a deep enough core.

So you said it yourself, we don't have the talent. I can't fault Fox for that and I think it is critical to be patient in the process. Now if by the end of next year, we aren't seeing talent emerge and get developed, then we have real issues (and I'd even go as far as saying, if by the end of this year we are saying Pace's picks are all busts, then again, something similar). I'm not saying it now and I don't even want to think about a new coach until the end of next year (and I certainly hope at that point, we are seeing the arrow start pointing up).

[bmags]

So you said it yourself, we don't have the talent. I can't fault Fox for that and I think it is critical to be patient in the process. Now if by the end of next year, we aren't seeing talent emerge and get developed, then we have real issues (and I'd even go as far as saying, if by the end of this year we are saying Pace's picks are all busts, then again, something similar). I'm not saying it now and I don't even want to think about a new coach until the end of next year (and I certainly hope at that point, we are seeing the arrow start pointing up).

 

I don't know that I have ever not recognized that we don't have talent?

 

I didn't advocate firing fox but I don't think Loggains has the previous success or current results to allow him to stay on as OC even through the full season. Kevin White hasn't looked that good, but everyone has correctly identiifed that he has not really been used the way you'd expect, see: Houston letting fuller run streaks.

 

Though the defense I knew would be rough, the offense should not be this bad, especially running the ball.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't know that I have ever not recognized that we don't have talent?

 

I didn't advocate firing fox but I don't think Loggains has the previous success or current results to allow him to stay on as OC even through the full season. Kevin White hasn't looked that good, but everyone has correctly identiifed that he has not really been used the way you'd expect, see: Houston letting fuller run streaks.

 

Though the defense I knew would be rough, the offense should not be this bad, especially running the ball.

I'm not a fan of Loggains, but I'm not ready to run a guy out 3 games into the job. I don't see what good that does for anyone involved. My view is we are going to have a new starting QB next year (or at least grooming one) so whomever we bring in next year is what matters and we better have some consistency to it. Our offense has clearly sucked, but it also had a ton of moving parts early in the season.

 

I expect we'll win 2 of our next 3 games.

[bmags]

I would be fine with Loggains had I known what he was trying to achieve. But supposedly he is trying to run Gase's offense. Sounds like Tice running Martz playbook.

[shipps]

I am cool with being patient.

 

It makes it pretty difficult when it looks like your team took a step back though. Not that I was expecting this team to be world beaters but they look pretty damn clueless and this is something that Bears reporters were saying was going on through training camp and preseason. I can take a loss if I see some more development of players and see a more defined plan of what this team is going to evolve into.

[iamshack]

Honestly, how can you even truly evaluate what is happening right now?

 

These results, while tough to stomach during the games, are not hurting us long term...this was always going to be a transitional year, and given the injuries we've already incurred just two games into the season, getting a few good bounces to go our way and being competitive is not in the cards. We need to be patient and continue to determine who is worth keeping around and who isn't. Losing these games in the fashion we have makes Mondays/Tuesdays more painful, but come April, we'll get better for it.

 

No need to panic. The coaching staff needs to focus on developing our critical young players and the long game.

[Chisoxfn]

Honestly, how can you even truly evaluate what is happening right now?

 

These results, while tough to stomach during the games, are not hurting us long term...this was always going to be a transitional year, and given the injuries we've already incurred just two games into the season, getting a few good bounces to go our way and being competitive is not in the cards. We need to be patient and continue to determine who is worth keeping around and who isn't. Losing these games in the fashion we have makes Mondays/Tuesdays more painful, but come April, we'll get better for it.

 

No need to panic. The coaching staff needs to focus on developing our critical young players and the long game.

Great post, totally agree.