2016-2017 NFL Thread

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Donald Driver was a very good WR. Greg Jennings in his prime would've been good anywhere, age just caught up with him. Jordy Nelson is a good WR that plays like a great WR because of his chemistry with Rodgers. Randall Cobb is a useful NFL player, or at least has been the last few years.

 

If you want to make an argument for Rodgers doing less than more it would be the fact that the the best RB he's ever had behind him is Ryan Grant.

Donald was on the back end of his career by the time Aaron took over. His prime years were easily during Favre's tenure. Jennings absolutely sucked when he left GB. He was 29 when he left, maybe not in his prime but not exactly over the hill either. Jordy is 31 right now for reference and has been through more severe injuries up to this point than Jennings at a similar age. Outside of 2014 in which he was excellent, Cobb has been "useful" but he hasn't played the last two games and no one has missed him (Aaron hasn't either if you look at his stat line).

[Con te Giolito]

Rodgers image has been crafted differently than Brady's so people aren't as keen to this, but Rodgers is more ruthless with his WR than even Brady. Brady has endured a lot of bad Julian Edelman plays but keeps going back to that well whereas Rodgers will probably never fully forgive Davante Adams for 2015. Bad WR really dont stick around long with him.

 

Also- I hope the Bears draft Joe Mixon. Holy s*** can this kid play, I dont know if he's quite Leonard Fournette but there is no way Dalvin Cook or Christian McCaffery are better than this guy. He can probably be had in the 3rd too. Some trashy southern white woman drunkenly taunted him and called him a n***** in public and got what she had coming. He shouldn't have knocked her out but I hardly see it as a sign of bad character, just bad judgment.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Con te Giolito

[Con te Giolito]

Donald was on the back end of his career by the time Aaron took over. His prime years were easily during Favre's tenure. Jennings absolutely sucked when he left GB. He was 29 when he left, maybe not in his prime but not exactly over the hill either. Jordy is 31 right now for reference and has been through more severe injuries up to this point than Jennings at a similar age. Outside of 2014 in which he was excellent, Cobb has been "useful" but he hasn't played the last two games and no one has missed him (Aaron hasn't either if you look at his stat line).

Well different guys have different aging patterns. Greg Jennings was already falling apart with the Packers.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Well different guys have different aging patterns. Greg Jennings was already falling apart with the Packers.

He was banged up his last season in GB but relatively healthy prior to that.

[GoSox05]

Brady has played in 31 (22-9) playoff games compared to 14 for Rodgers, who is 8-6.

 

Rodgers is great but not in the GOAT conversation yet.

 

 

In one of those playoff losses for Aaron Rodgers he had 423 yards passing, 4 passing touchdowns and 1 rushing touchdown.

 

In one of those playoff wins for Tom Brady he had 239 yards passing, 0 touchdowns and 2 INT.

 

You could flip those stats for each player from different games.

 

 

Not saying who is better, but playoff record has almost nothing to do with it.

[Brian]

Not saying who is better, but playoff record has almost nothing to do with it.

 

If he's going to throw out passer ratings, the number of playoffs games played definitely has something to do with it.

[knightni]

Jordan Howard was pretty amazing this year.

 

Only 12 games full time and he ended up just 300 yards short of Elliott.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

If he's going to throw out passer ratings, the number of playoffs games played definitely has something to do with it.

So the argument is that Brady's larger sample size has led to a lower postseason passer rating? Rodgers has nearly a full season's worth of playoff games under his belt so it's not exactly neglible. Rodgers faces the number 2 passing defense (by opponent passer rating) this weekend so it's certainly an opportunity to make a statement. If he puts up a passer rating > 100 but they still lose because of their porous pass defense, is it Rodgers' fault?

 

If they get past NYG, I see Rodgers putting up big numbers in Dallas and single handedly keeping them competitive in that game vs a superior opponent.

[GGajewski18]

Mahomes from Texas Tech declares. Would love him on the Bears.

[GoSox05]

I don't really like to get into the "who is the best QB" stuff. You could easily make cases for several different qb's.

 

I get to watch Aaron Rodgers play for the team I root for. So that is good enough for me. I don't know if he is the best ever, he might not even be the best this year, but some of the throws he makes are unbelievable. That TD to Allison was one of them. Watched a Vine of it about a dozen times and it's still hard to figure out how he did that.

 

 

[knightni]

I really hope that they draft DeShone Kizer. He's got fire, determination, and NFL level skill.

 

Even with the mess that ND was this year, he still had really good results at the position.

[southsider2k5]

jon greenberg ‏@jon_greenberg 4m4 minutes ago Fun fact: Cutler never went more than two straight games as a Bear without throwing an INT.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Bears Talk ‏@CSNBears 9m9 minutes ago John Fox says both #Bears coordinators will return in 2017.

 

0 replies 1 retweet 0 likes

[Con te Giolito]

Bears Talk ‏@CSNBears 9m9 minutes ago John Fox says both #Bears coordinators will return in 2017.

 

0 replies 1 retweet 0 likes

Zero accountability for a 3-13 season.

[Kyyle23]

They did fire O Line coach Sam Magazu and a assistant DB coach( can't remember the name).

 

No commitment to Cutler, they haven't given up on Fuller, they know the DBs were bad and they need to be upgraded.

 

They also said injuries aren't an excuse and then used injuries as an excuse. The live Facebook feed was deafening with the sound of mouth-breathing

[Con te Giolito]

They did fire O Line coach Sam Magazu and a assistant DB coach( can't remember the name).

 

No commitment to Cutler, they haven't given up on Fuller, they know the DBs were bad and they need to be upgraded.

 

They also said injuries aren't an excuse and then used injuries as an excuse. The live Facebook feed was deafening with the sound of mouth-breathing

RB coach is gone too.

 

Still a bigger head needed to roll. I was really disappointed with Fangio this year looking back.

[Kyyle23]

RB coach is gone too.

 

Still a bigger head needed to roll. I was really disappointed with Fangio this year looking back.

 

Lol Fangio worked miracles this year. He couldn't win the war of attrition

[southsider2k5]

Zero accountability for a 3-13 season.

 

With injuries they had, TBH, I am surprised they were as competitive as they were. They gave away three games at least this year..

[Chisoxfn]

RB coach is gone too.

 

Still a bigger head needed to roll. I was really disappointed with Fangio this year looking back.

We have no playmakers. Without playmakers, you won't get turnovers. It is amazing how we were able to scheme to prevent yardage, but until you have quite a few playmakers, you aren't going to be an elite defense. Right now we have one guy (Floyd) who looks like he could emerge into that and another who has potential, but missed almost the whole year with injuries (Goldman). None of the other players on that roster are what I'd view as difference makers or even potential difference makers (at this point). We do have a lot of solid players though (guys like Willie Young, Freeman, Hicks, Trevathan (pre-injury), etc). McPhee was lousy this year, so who knows what he'll be going forward (you can hope for health, but his track record says don't expect it).

 

Secondary is brutal and needs a dynamic player or two and the front seven could use at least one more dynamic player as well, if not two.

 

I find it interesting we fired our RB coach and oline coach when I actually thought those units were fairly solid. I can't really evaluate Loggains given the fact that we had so many freaking injuries on offense.

[Chisoxfn]

Zero accountability for a 3-13 season.

I view it differently. Did the talent level (when considering injuries) look like a team that should have been way better? That answer is no? Did we see the team quit? That answer is largely no. By and large, I felt the coaches did what they could and did the best they had with what they had and we saw many players take steps forward (recent draft class was fantastic and Hicks came in and looked good on the FA front, etc). I'm not going to fire people because the roster wasn't ready and I'm not going to fire Pace because it is going to take time to turnover this thing like they are trying to do.

 

If we go with a young QB and lose, but see more progress on the development side, I wouldn't want to fire our coaches either. I base things more on available talent, etc. and long term positioning and I do believe we are headed in the right path, however, I do agree, that QB is a massive questionmark. I am a believer that we need to find a way to get Jimmy G here (without sacrificing our 1st round pick). I'm also very open to a trade down to make up for the blow lost by giving up a high 2nd round pick plus something else for Jimmy G.

[LittleHurt05]

With injuries they had, TBH, I am surprised they were as competitive as they were. They gave away three games at least this year..

 

I don't like Fox and especially hate his in-game management, but he definitely wasn't the problem. They competed. The problem was lack of talent due to current/prior front office and injuries.

 

I'm not as concerned about the head coach as I am the GM. How much time do you give Pace? I feel as if he has been hit or miss on his picks so far. He did nothing with the QB position for 2 years and now it's a black hole. You don't wanna fire him too soon, but you let him drag you in the mud too long if he's not up to the task.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't like Fox and especially hate his in-game management, but he definitely wasn't the problem. They competed. The problem was lack of talent due to current/prior front office and injuries.

 

I'm not as concerned about the head coach as I am the GM. How much time do you give Pace? I feel as if he has been hit or miss on his picks so far. He did nothing with the QB position for 2 years and now it's a black hole. You don't wanna fire him too soon, but you let him drag you in the mud too long if he's not up to the task.

Outside of the lack of talent at the QB position, I've been quite happy with Pace. This years draft is thus far, looking like one of the best drafts in football (Floyd / Whitehair / Howard would all go in the 1st round if you did a redraft today, imo). His free agent signings were very solid (Trevathan / Freeman / Hicks were all quality additions, albeit Trevathan might never be the same after his injury).

 

Last year's draft is not looking as good, but I can't really blame him for the Kevin White fiasco and Goldman looks like a potential pro bowler when on the field, although you can't deny the fact that he has had a problem staying on the field. A year ago, I would have said this draft looked good as we saw flashes from Langford, Goldman, and Amos (while still having a bit more hope about White then I do today). Now I'd say that it is a bit more dissapointing, but some of that is due to injuries (and not in the sense that the guy we drafted was injury prone as White wasn't that) and you also have to remember for that draft he didn't have his scouting regime in place, etc, so to some extent you are relying pretty heavily on the work of the previous regime. Grassu looked like he was going to have a much better second year prior to getting hurt as well. Basically put, injuries put a real damper on the 2015 draft (at this point) and we can only hope that somehow guys recover from those injuries and emerge in year three.

 

With me, I'm about being patient because a new GM is just going to restart the entire shuffle process and in theory, by switching a lot, you end up taking a lot of steps backward without ever really giving yourself the opportunity to step forward. I haven't seen anything from Pace yet that makes me think he isn't the right guy and I think a GM deserves 5 years.

 

On Fox, I completely agree with you that his in-game management leaves a lot to be desired, but I do think he does a good job of finding good coordinators and coaches and keeping guys hungry. I don't know if we'll win a championship with him, but I still believe we are in a much better place then where we were. Maybe at some point, the front office will need to make a change, but now wasn't the time. In hindsight, maybe we should have kept Gase while we had him in the building, but hard to make that call after one year and Fox has proven that he is absolutely a competent head coach.

 

I also agree completely with you on the criticality of the GM, but I think coaching is just as critical if not more critical, because that is who ultimately puts the players in the best position to succeed and develop and it is very clear that some staffs can do it and some staffs can't. I think there are often times players in this league who fail because they went to the wrong place (not because they didn't have the talent). It is also why it is important/critical for the GM / Coach to be on the same page regarding talent, needs, use of players, scheme-fits, etc, to ensure everyone is bought in on what you are doing and that you are bringing in the right guys to help achieve that. I really do hope the rumors of Fox / Pace not seeing eye-to-eye and the whole Fangio thing are just that, because if those issues exist and we aren't making changes, then I think that is the ultimate recipe for disaster. Pace either needs to fully believe or he doesn't and if he doesn't, he should have the power to make the change and if the Bears don't trust him to do those things, then they shouldn't have Pace around either. You put people in positions and you then have to trust them to execute and if what you see isn't working (more the process, etc, cause right now, obviously with the personell we aren't going to be happy with the record), then you can't be afraid to act.

[SoxAce]

Outside of the lack of talent at the QB position, I've been quite happy with Pace.

 

Same. One of the few bright hires this organization has done.

[RockRaines]

They need to collect as many picks as possible in this draft and have to hit on most of them. If that doesnt happen then next offseason will be much much worse for them.

[Chisoxfn]

They need to collect as many picks as possible in this draft and have to hit on most of them. If that doesnt happen then next offseason will be much much worse for them.

I also think they need to use their free agent money wisely and they probably need to spend a good chunk of it on secondary pieces (as well as using a pretty high pick on the secondary). The most critical decision will relate to the QB position, which is such a freaking crapshoot. I disagree on having to hit on most of them, they need to have a few big wins though, that is for sure, and I do think they are best served by trading down a bit. To me they should acquire a QB outside of the draft.