dasox24 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 01:19 PM) We have no playmakers. Without playmakers, you won't get turnovers. It is amazing how we were able to scheme to prevent yardage, but until you have quite a few playmakers, you aren't going to be an elite defense. Right now we have one guy (Floyd) who looks like he could emerge into that and another who has potential, but missed almost the whole year with injuries (Goldman). None of the other players on that roster are what I'd view as difference makers or even potential difference makers (at this point). We do have a lot of solid players though (guys like Willie Young, Freeman, Hicks, Trevathan (pre-injury), etc). McPhee was lousy this year, so who knows what he'll be going forward (you can hope for health, but his track record says don't expect it). Secondary is brutal and needs a dynamic player or two and the front seven could use at least one more dynamic player as well, if not two. I find it interesting we fired our RB coach and oline coach when I actually thought those units were fairly solid. I can't really evaluate Loggains given the fact that we had so many freaking injuries on offense. Well said. Fangio worked a miracle. Most of the players on our defense were guys selected between the 4th-7th round, or undrafted free agents. Sure, you can find diamonds in the rough in those rounds, but they are few and far between - that's why they are called diamonds in the rough. Every elite defense has several 1st round talents on their roster. We had Floyd. That's it. And even then, he's only a rookie and missed 1/4 of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Who were the playmakers on the 2014 Bears defense? If their players are worse than they were 2 years ago, that's on Pace. The fact is 17 forced turnovers in 2015 set a franchise record low. The 11 this year shattered it. I don't know if it's coaching, what is emphasized, lack of players , luck, or all of the above, but it needs to change quickly. They have had no talent before and forced a lot more turnovers. Pace can draft 6 future Pro Bowlers in April, if the team is 6-10, neither he or Fox will be around for the annual post mortem press conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Our RB coach wasn't let go, he is taking a job at Texas under Herman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 02:47 PM) Who were the playmakers on the 2014 Bears defense? If their players are worse than they were 2 years ago, that's on Pace. The fact is 17 forced turnovers in 2015 set a franchise record low. The 11 this year shattered it. I don't know if it's coaching, what is emphasized, lack of players , luck, or all of the above, but it needs to change quickly. They have had no talent before and forced a lot more turnovers. Pace can draft 6 future Pro Bowlers in April, if the team is 6-10, neither he or Fox will be around for the annual post mortem press conference. He has had 2 off-seasons to fix the entire team. The offense was old and average, the defense was old and horrible, and so was special teams. This was a major rebuild, not some roster that only needed minor tweaking. No doubt this is an important off-season for Pace, but none of his moves so far show incompetence to me. On the other hand, with someone like Phil Emery, it was clear early on that he wasn't the right guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 12:58 PM) I also think they need to use their free agent money wisely and they probably need to spend a good chunk of it on secondary pieces (as well as using a pretty high pick on the secondary). The most critical decision will relate to the QB position, which is such a freaking crapshoot. I disagree on having to hit on most of them, they need to have a few big wins though, that is for sure, and I do think they are best served by trading down a bit. To me they should acquire a QB outside of the draft. Using a high pick on this QB class looks to be pretty darn stupid. I think they will plug that hole while improving the rest of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Tony Romo will be a Bear next year and they will draft a guy in the second round to develop. Book it. I am pulling a steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 04:22 PM) Using a high pick on this QB class looks to be pretty darn stupid. I think they will plug that hole while improving the rest of the team. Do you count a 2nd as a high pick? I would be genuinely disappointed if there's not at least a 3rd spent on that spot this year. I totally get not using that first round pick on a QB, but especially if one of the "potential 1st round QBs" falls as we have seen before, picking early in the 2nd could set this team up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 02:47 PM) Who were the playmakers on the 2014 Bears defense? If their players are worse than they were 2 years ago, that's on Pace. The fact is 17 forced turnovers in 2015 set a franchise record low. The 11 this year shattered it. I don't know if it's coaching, what is emphasized, lack of players , luck, or all of the above, but it needs to change quickly. They have had no talent before and forced a lot more turnovers. Pace can draft 6 future Pro Bowlers in April, if the team is 6-10, neither he or Fox will be around for the annual post mortem press conference. That's such a short sighted philosophy. Pace's job right now is to add talent. Pace did that job well last year. In FA he completely revamped the LBs, turning that position into a strength. He added 3 starters - two of whom look like truly impact talent - in the draft. They need to address the secondary, and they need to address the QB position this year, but if Pace has a great draft and they only win 6 games, Pace is still doing his job - adding talent to a bad roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 01:22 PM) Using a high pick on this QB class looks to be pretty darn stupid. I think they will plug that hole while improving the rest of the team. The problem is, the GM / Head Coach can't just wait forever to address QB. You aren't going to win keeping Hoyer and odds only increase of you never seeing your way to success longer term without finding the solution. Kizer has all the tools to be an NFL QB. I don't see how you ignore the position. I think the best move is to trade for Jimmy G or go with Romo and let him buy you time (i.e., allow you to take a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and evaluate and maybe even take another guy a year from now if after a year you don't like what you see from the first pick). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 01:26 PM) Do you count a 2nd as a high pick? I would be genuinely disappointed if there's not at least a 3rd spent on that spot this year. I totally get not using that first round pick on a QB, but especially if one of the "potential 1st round QBs" falls as we have seen before, picking early in the 2nd could set this team up. Very rarely do later round picks pan out, so while I always get the fascination of waiting a bit, I think you either like Kizer or others and think they have a shot or you don't. If you don't, then you need to find a QB another way and it can't be, well lets take a flyer on a guy in the 2nd / 3rd / 4th, cause reality is, if you thought they had a good shot at starting, you'd have taken them higher, so there is a lot more crapshoot to it already (and QB is such a difficult spot to scout) to where I just don't see how you can do that. To me, we are either taking a QB in the 1st round or trading for one (Jimmy G / AJ McCarron / Tony Romo). Had Cutler not totally sucked, I could have gotten more on board with taking someone in the 2nd-4th this year and hell even again a year from now cause you'd have the luxury of time, but we don't have that luxury anymore. They could have had it if they just used a pick on a QB a year ago, but I don't think any of them saw Cutler blowing up as much as he did this year (and the reality is, he'll bounce back and go back to being a league averagish starting QB...unless his arm is shot). And I recognize all my talk of McCarron / Jimmy G is counterintuitive to my late round picks normally don't pan out. Part of that is also the fact that you look at AJ / Jimmy G and it took them a couple years before they were even ready to be "starting" material and if Fox/Pace get a guy like that, forget about them ever being around long-term and remember, while they have to make decisions in the best interest of the franchise, they also have to view things from the lens that these decisions should also maximize their ability to continue to get paychecks from the Bears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 04:57 PM) The problem is, the GM / Head Coach can't just wait forever to address QB. You aren't going to win keeping Hoyer and odds only increase of you never seeing your way to success longer term without finding the solution. Kizer has all the tools to be an NFL QB. I don't see how you ignore the position. I think the best move is to trade for Jimmy G or go with Romo and let him buy you time (i.e., allow you to take a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and evaluate and maybe even take another guy a year from now if after a year you don't like what you see from the first pick). Are you willing to give up that 2nd round pick for JG? That was the price for Cassel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 02:00 PM) Are you willing to give up that 2nd round pick for JG? That was the price for Cassel. I have absolutely zero problem giving up a 2nd for JG. None at all. I prefer that to any other plausible scenario. I'd then try to trade down from #3 to accumulate more picks. Jimmy G is ready to start. Whether he's good or not, hell if I know, but I've seen enough that I'd have no problem going that route and taking the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananarchy Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 If the Patriots want the Bears' second rounder for JG, the Bears need to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 01:47 PM) Who were the playmakers on the 2014 Bears defense? If their players are worse than they were 2 years ago, that's on Pace. The fact is 17 forced turnovers in 2015 set a franchise record low. The 11 this year shattered it. I don't know if it's coaching, what is emphasized, lack of players , luck, or all of the above, but it needs to change quickly. They have had no talent before and forced a lot more turnovers. Pace can draft 6 future Pro Bowlers in April, if the team is 6-10, neither he or Fox will be around for the annual post mortem press conference. They don't have less talent than they had 2 years ago. Their secondary is bad. The front 7 when healthy is pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Weekend predictions: Oakland over Houston (predicting Cook has a decent game) Seattle over Detroit (Nailbiter that may come down to the last team with the ball) Green Bay over NY (Rodgers breaks it open in 2nd half after an early slug fest) Pittsburgh over Miami (Surprisingly high scoring) Edited January 4, 2017 by BigSqwert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 04:37 PM) They don't have less talent than they had 2 years ago. Their secondary is bad. The front 7 when healthy is pretty good. Two years ago they were heavy on skill players and barren on trenches. now have good/great play, young and improving dline play, and good linebacker core. And worse skill players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 10:55 AM) They need to collect as many picks as possible in this draft and have to hit on most of them. If that doesnt happen then next offseason will be much much worse for them. How many is "most of them"? I still think you are a bit off on just how far away they are. They just need to get this thing rolling downhill a bit. They are getting there... Just look at the Cowboys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 06:13 PM) How many is "most of them"? I still think you are a bit off on just how far away they are. They just need to get this thing rolling downhill a bit. They are getting there... Just look at the Cowboys. I'd agree. Hitting on "most of the 7 picks" is impossible. If you hit on 3, it's a good draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 04:00 PM) Are you willing to give up that 2nd round pick for JG? That was the price for Cassel. The price isn't measured against a trade made 8 years ago. The price is being measured against what Sam Bradford got, that's why you keep seeing 1st and 4th. And the Patriots have little motivation to come off that price because why should they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 06:37 PM) Weekend predictions: Oakland over Houston (predicting Cook has a decent game) Seattle over Detroit (Nailbiter that may come down to the last team with the ball) Green Bay over NY (Rodgers breaks it open in 2nd half after an early slug fest) Pittsburgh over Miami (Surprisingly high scoring) I can see all of those except I really can't see Oakland winning without Carr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Garoppolo was a 2nd round pick to begin with, so the question would you be willing to give up a 2nd round pick is pretty funny. The Patriots would most definitely want more than that in return and deservedly so. IMO, if you believe in Garoppolo, a 1st & 4th is nothing. That 1st shouldn't be the #3 overall pick however, so I would definitely trade down a few spots in the 1st and try to recapture a pick or two. I really think that's the better play reaching on one of the QB prospects in this draft at #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 05:44 PM) Two years ago they were heavy on skill players and barren on trenches. now have good/great play, young and improving dline play, and good linebacker core. And worse skill players. Yeah this is true. Kevin White can't be counted on. This kind of hinges on Jeffery. Jeffery and Meredith each had 800+ yard seasons with bum QB's. Jordan Howard is very good. It's clear that QB and secondary are top needs but another pass rusher, a starting TE, and more speed at WR is also necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 06:30 AM) The price isn't measured against a trade made 8 years ago. The price is being measured against what Sam Bradford got, that's why you keep seeing 1st and 4th. And the Patriots have little motivation to come off that price because why should they? Because I don't see anyone paying it, he only has 1 year left on his deal, their starting QB thinks he's playing into his 40's. Something has to give somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 03:36 PM) That's such a short sighted philosophy. Pace's job right now is to add talent. Pace did that job well last year. In FA he completely revamped the LBs, turning that position into a strength. He added 3 starters - two of whom look like truly impact talent - in the draft. They need to address the secondary, and they need to address the QB position this year, but if Pace has a great draft and they only win 6 games, Pace is still doing his job - adding talent to a bad roster. . He needs to add talent that can actually stay on the field. White, Goldman, Floyd, they all might be great, but if they can't stay on the field they aren't good picks. His free agents have had a tough time staying on the field as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 07:45 AM) Because I don't see anyone paying it, he only has 1 year left on his deal, their starting QB thinks he's playing into his 40's. Something has to give somewhere. I think they are in a similar position as the Sox were with Sale. There is no rush here, they have the hot property(not nearly as valuable as Sale of course), and can slow play it. They may not get a 1st and 4th, but I dont think they are getting only a 2nd back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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