caulfield12 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (kevo880 @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 04:23 PM) I usually agree with the general consensus on this board, but apparently I'm in the minority that I'm overall happy with the off season. Would I like and upgrade at RF and/or SS? Of course that would be nice, but we have upgraded pretty massively at 2B, 3B, and C. Not to mention signing Latos for next to nothing and adding more depth to the bullpen. How much more can you realistically expect to happen in 1 off season? I personally love that Hahn is being smart and not giving in to the player demands. There are so many FA's still out there that I'm sure would like to be playing this season and earning a contract. There is no reason to give in to their demands and pay them what they want. I'm fine with running Saladino out there for 1 season. We have Anderson waiting in the wings and we will have him hopefully at SS for league minimum for years. When it comes to RF, I think it'd be dumb to give Fowler a 4 year deal or close to a $50 million dollar contract, while giving up the 28th overall pick in the draft at the same time. When it comes down to it, I'm not an Avi supporter, but I understand giving him 1 more season to see if he can put it together like the Sox thought he could when they acquired him. I think the way to build a winner is to find the bargains in FA and build from within. I do see that plan in place at the moment. Before anyone says it, I realize we have traded many prospects in our top 25 from last season, but let's be honest, who are we really going to miss? Montas maybe if he ever stays healthy. Other than that I'd be surprised if they amount to much in the majors. The problem is Hahn did the complete opposite of that with LaRoche, Cabrera, Duke, Robertson and Bonifacio (overpaying)...so now it feels like they're way overcorrecting in the other direction and becoming timid. (Not going to waste time arguing the Samardzija deal again.) In order to compete when there's so much parity, you need to be excellent in 2-3 areas, like pitching, speed, defense, bullpen, line-up balance, fundamentals, manager/coaches maximizing talent, etc. As it stands right now, our only real advantage is starting pitching and the bullpen. That and the historical record of staying healthier, which doesn't feel like it can hold up indefinitely. It's probably reasonable to argue this is about the best they could have done without the budget constraints. On the other hand, Hahn made a series of mostly terrible moves last offseason, so he's at least partially to blame for the financial predicament. The sad thing here is the boos will undoubtedly go to Avi and Ventura and not Hahn if it blows up again. Edited February 20, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 05:07 PM) I think we all get a little more worked up than we should, this team should be better and if the bullpen and rotation hold, should contend. Take the 2015 Royals. They were contending with one of the worst rotations in baseball, Rios in Rf, and Infante at 2nd most of the season. They upgraded for sure, and probably wouldn't have won without the upgrade, but there were some bums in that line up a good part of the season. I just think we see obvious available chances to make the team better, and so far they seem to have passed on all. It is easy to frustrate. The key difference is they had the minor league depth to go all-in and trade their equivalents of Anderson, Fulmer and Adams for Zobrist and Cueto. Is that the type of move that we (can or) should expect at the trade deadline this year when the Sox are bunched in the wild card pack with 7-8 other teams and no clear direction to go in again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 06:10 PM) The key difference is they had the minor league depth to go all-in and trade their equivalents of Anderson, Fulmer and Adams for Zobrist and Cueto. Is that the type of move that we (can or) should expect at the trade deadline this year when the Sox are bunched in the wild card pack with 7-8 other teams and no clear direction to go in again? Unless Sale gets hurt, they won't need an ace. A guy like Zobrist went for a price like Erik Johnson. If Fulmer or another guy step up, and Latos provides anything, they can get by without trading Adams., or Anderson or Fulmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Could you trade Erik Johnson for Manaea and Aaron Brooks today? At worst, as a prospect, Manaea is in that same 75-100 range as Montas...although a lot of scouts are more bullish on his long-term starting potential. Already, that's a higher cost than Adams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) Looks like he got his notes mixed up with Gar Forman. Thank you for making my day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 06:26 PM) Could you trade Erik Johnson for Manaea and Aaron Brooks today? At worst, as a prospect, Manaea is in that same 75-100 range as Montas...although a lot of scouts are more bullish on his long-term starting potential. Already, that's a higher cost than Adams. Maybe, but they wouldn't be trading for them. They would be trading for a 2 month rental. 2 years ago, Johnson was a prospect in the 60s. Edited February 20, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo880 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 07:03 PM) The problem is Hahn did the complete opposite of that with LaRoche, Cabrera, Duke, Robertson and Bonifacio (overpaying)...so now it feels like they're way overcorrecting in the other direction and becoming timid. (Not going to waste time arguing the Samardzija deal again.) In order to compete when there's so much parity, you need to be excellent in 2-3 areas, like pitching, speed, defense, bullpen, line-up balance, fundamentals, manager/coaches maximizing talent, etc. As it stands right now, our only real advantage is starting pitching and the bullpen. That and the historical record of staying healthier, which doesn't feel like it can hold up indefinitely. It's probably reasonable to argue this is about the best they could have done without the budget constraints. On the other hand, Hahn made a series of mostly terrible moves last offseason, so he's at least partially to blame for the financial predicament. The sad thing here is the boos will undoubtedly go to Avi and Ventura and not Hahn if it blows up again. In response to the first paragraph, all of those moves were applauded when they happened. The sox won the offseason. I somewhat agree they are over compensating for their mistakes, but I also think they learned a lesson that most teams don't build a winner by building through FA. I think they are doing the best they can to put a very competitive team on the field while trying to build from within. That is why they wouldn't part with Fulmer or Anderson or the 3 top 50 picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 QUOTE (kevo880 @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 06:52 PM) In response to the first paragraph, all of those moves were applauded when they happened. The sox won the offseason. I somewhat agree they are over compensating for their mistakes, but I also think they learned a lesson that most teams don't build a winner by building through FA. I think they are doing the best they can to put a very competitive team on the field while trying to build from within. That is why they wouldn't part with Fulmer or Anderson or the 3 top 50 picks. Well put. SOx are definitely an improved ballclub as we sit here heading into camp. And opening day isn't tomorrow, I'd be very surprised if an OF isn't brought in shortly. And no thanks if the rumor is true that Fowler is looking for 4 years (!) or $45 million, plus the loss of a pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 06:36 PM) Maybe, but they wouldn't be trading for them. They would be trading for a 2 month rental. 2 years ago, Johnson was a prospect in the 60s. Yes, and so were Avi and Hawkins...but that doesn't provide much surplus value at the present moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I say get a LFer and let Melky start his career at DH now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 02:38 PM) Chicago White Sox @whitesox 14m14 minutes ago "As we sit here today, we feel well positioned to contend." - Rick Hahn Earth to Jerry, Kenny & Rick: your ace starting pitcher today said he has yet to play in a "meaningful game" in his entire career, and that nothing else matters if the team doesn't make the playoffs. That of course echoes what many of us here have been saying for a long time now. So as you sit here today, Rick, you had better hope you either add another missing part or two, or hope beyond hope that the underperforming assets from last year figure it out and make it happen this season, cuz Mr. Sale's patience? It be wearing thin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 01:38 PM) Chicago White Sox @whitesox 14m14 minutes ago "As we sit here today, we feel well positioned to contend." - Rick Hahn More work yet from Rick to do before opening day for this statement to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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