Hahn's Comments Monday 2/22...

[Lip Man 1]

Rick had what I thought were some interesting comments today in Glendale. Among the sampling:

 

'The Sox drew 1.755 million fans last year, ranking 26th among the 30 teams. It was a slight increase from 1.6 million in 2014 but not enough to make a real difference.

 

"You know what's probably a bigger differentiation between clubs right now than local attendance is the local TV contract," Hahn said. "You've heard it for years on the other side of town, and they're right. That's probably the biggest disparity in club revenues, as opposed to what attendance used to represent."

"For us, the more people who show up, great. It creates a better environment, it potentially allows us more resources, but we also are fully aware of the fact we haven't put a product out there that people have wanted to come and invest their time and money in. We're hoping this year to be a little bit different. We're going to wind up in the same (payroll) area, so it hasn't had a negative impact from that standpoint."

Rick is showing some tact with the attendance comments and he's right in my opinion. Sox fans won't pay to see bad baseball, period.

 

Also the talk about TV deals is also correct in my opinion. If the Sox want to get anything close to a good new TV deal in 2019, they better start winning or they'll be blown away by what the Cubs are going to get when they start their own network.

 

Mark

Edited February 23, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[fathom]

Also likely means Nightengale was absolutely correct and they have no money left. Really seems like a trade with offsetting costs is only scenario to get an impact player

Edited February 23, 2016 by fathom

[LDF]

Rick had what I thought were some interesting comments today in Glendale. Among the sampling:

 

'The Sox drew 1.755 million fans last year, ranking 26th among the 30 teams. It was a slight increase from 1.6 million in 2014 but not enough to make a real difference.

 

"You know what's probably a bigger differentiation between clubs right now than local attendance is the local TV contract," Hahn said. "You've heard it for years on the other side of town, and they're right. That's probably the biggest disparity in club revenues, as opposed to what attendance used to represent."

"For us, the more people who show up, great. It creates a better environment, it potentially allows us more resources, but we also are fully aware of the fact we haven't put a product out there that people have wanted to come and invest their time and money in. We're hoping this year to be a little bit different. We're going to wind up in the same (payroll) area, so it hasn't had a negative impact from that standpoint."

Rick is showing some tact with the attendance comments and he's right in my opinion. Sox fans won't pay to see bad baseball, period.

 

Also the talk about TV deals is also correct in my opinion. If the Sox want to get anything close to a good new TV deal in 2019, they better start winning or they'll be blown away by what the Cubs are going to get when they start their own network.

 

Mark

 

 

to me, there was really no intention of signing any big FA or OF'er this yr, he says it right there, in the bold. they are done.

[GreatScott82]

Between these comments and the Rollins addition, you can pretty much rule out the chances for signing Desmond or Fowler. It looks like your starting RF will be Avi Garcia. I thought Hahn was more creative than this. Hoping the worst RF in the AL defensively and offensively can rebound is a bit of a pipe dream. Especially for a team you expect to contend with.

[Dick Allen]

to me, there was really no intention of signing any big FA or OF'er this yr, he says it right there, in the bold. they are done.

I disagree. I think they were willing to stretch it for certain guys. I am over the disappointment of them not getting Gordon or Cespedes or Upton. But upgrades remain. I do think sometimes they have to bite the bullet and take a chance, and I don't think signing Fowler to a 2 year contract around $25 million is a huge risk these days. I still think they will add an OF. If not, it will be a downer. Especially if Avi performs like the sabermatricians think he will, not how the Sox hope he will.

[LDF]

I disagree. I think they were willing to stretch it for certain guys. I am over the disappointment of them not getting Gordon or Cespedes or Upton. But upgrades remain. I do think sometimes they have to bite the bullet and take a chance, and I don't think signing Fowler to a 2 year contract around $25 million is a huge risk these days. I still think they will add an OF. If not, it will be a downer. Especially if Avi performs like the sabermatricians think he will, not how the Sox hope he will.

 

i really like this post, a well thought out post.

 

it appears as you are resign, as i am, as i am saying, it is what it is.

 

i am ready for the start of st games and no major additions are forth coming.

 

i am trying to resolve myself with the idea of the FO was really not deceiving the fans..... that is for another debate.

[Saufley]

Rick had what I thought were some interesting comments today in Glendale. Among the sampling:

 

'The Sox drew 1.755 million fans last year, ranking 26th among the 30 teams. It was a slight increase from 1.6 million in 2014 but not enough to make a real difference.

 

"You know what's probably a bigger differentiation between clubs right now than local attendance is the local TV contract," Hahn said. "You've heard it for years on the other side of town, and they're right. That's probably the biggest disparity in club revenues, as opposed to what attendance used to represent."

"For us, the more people who show up, great. It creates a better environment, it potentially allows us more resources, but we also are fully aware of the fact we haven't put a product out there that people have wanted to come and invest their time and money in. We're hoping this year to be a little bit different. We're going to wind up in the same (payroll) area, so it hasn't had a negative impact from that standpoint."

Rick is showing some tact with the attendance comments and he's right in my opinion. Sox fans won't pay to see bad baseball, period.

 

Also the talk about TV deals is also correct in my opinion. If the Sox want to get anything close to a good new TV deal in 2019, they better start winning or they'll be blown away by what the Cubs are going to get when they start their own network.

 

Mark

 

This may expand that "three year window", to be competitive. I can't imagine the Sox wanting to do a tear down and rebuild before a new TV deal is signed. In the next few years we need some of these young kids to take a big step forward.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Saufley

[Chisoxfn]

Also likely means Nightengale was absolutely correct and they have no money left. Really seems like a trade with offsetting costs is only scenario to get an impact player

I've outlined the revenues from TV dollars alone in the past, the money is there, if the right player is there. Now where will the revenues go when they ultimately renegotiate, who knows, but I've long said the butts in the seats are the least significant part of the finances of the game of baseball today. TV TV TV.

[iamshack]

Also likely means Nightengale was absolutely correct and they have no money left. Really seems like a trade with offsetting costs is only scenario to get an impact player

They have money...we need to stop looking at this in such a simplified manner...they have the ability to move money in budgets from one year to the next, etc., if they feel as though making the expenditure is worth it.

 

It makes absolutely no sense that they would have even been involved in talks with three different OFs (and making offers, per some sources), if they did not "have" the money.

[LDF]

They have money...we need to stop looking at this in such a simplified manner...they have the ability to move money in budgets from one year to the next, etc., if they feel as though making the expenditure is worth it.

 

It makes absolutely no sense that they would have even been involved in talks with three different OFs (and making offers, per some sources), if they did not "have" the money.

 

and poster who keeps repeating the company line of the org does not have money. as you said, and i will add as making a token offer to some.

[LDF]

I've outlined the revenues from TV dollars alone in the past, the money is there, if the right player is there. Now where will the revenues go when they ultimately renegotiate, who knows, but I've long said the butts in the seats are the least significant part of the finances of the game of baseball today. TV TV TV.

 

good post, the fans are a wait and see type of group. if they, the org invest, and i have always saying invest, b/c it is an investment from the owners to do this. if they invest and improve, get the excitement back, the fans will show up. the owners has to show the good faith.

[southsider2k5]

They have money...we need to stop looking at this in such a simplified manner...they have the ability to move money in budgets from one year to the next, etc., if they feel as though making the expenditure is worth it.

 

It makes absolutely no sense that they would have even been involved in talks with three different OFs (and making offers, per some sources), if they did not "have" the money.

 

I know others will try to over simplify things, but I am used to that. It is one thing to get a specific expenditure for a top flight guy approved. It is quite another to get it for a second or third tier player. All you have to do is look a the players they are bringing in and the deals they are being brought in at to get that there are pretty obvious limitations they are looking at.

 

If they had easily available money to spend on these guys, they would have done it long ago.

 

I also think fans are conflagrating team statements, with rumors that don't necessarily reflect what the team is actually able to do. I have no doubt that a large chunk of the Sox being connected to players was being done on behalf of agents and players, and probably didn't reflect any real ability to have a fiscal interest in players. Not all rumors are created equal.

 

All the White Sox themselves have said is that they are still trying to improve this team. They have never said they were interested in specific players or specific budgets had been set. Some fans are seeing what they want to see, and that is the worst case scenario.

 

The fact that they are still looking, while useful players are sitting out there tells me everything that I need to know. The most negative will take it as the teams management is either stupid or negligent. I think that is just silly.

[blackmooncreeping]

to me, there was really no intention of signing any big FA or OF'er this yr, he says it right there, in the bold. they are done.

I think they would've paid for a top tier/elite OF, but in terms defined by the Sox. The contracts ultimately signed by those elite level players exceeded the Sox internally defined parameters.

[iamshack]

I know others will try to over simplify things, but I am used to that. It is one thing to get a specific expenditure for a top flight guy approved. It is quite another to get it for a second or third tier player. All you have to do is look a the players they are bringing in and the deals they are being brought in at to get that there are pretty obvious limitations they are looking at.

 

If they had easily available money to spend on these guys, they would have done it long ago.

 

I also think fans are conflagrating team statements, with rumors that don't necessarily reflect what the team is actually able to do. I have no doubt that a large chunk of the Sox being connected to players was being done on behalf of agents and players, and probably didn't reflect any real ability to have a fiscal interest in players. Not all rumors are created equal.

 

All the White Sox themselves have said is that they are still trying to improve this team. They have never said they were interested in specific players or specific budgets had been set. Some fans are seeing what they want to see, and that is the worst case scenario.

 

The fact that they are still looking, while useful players are sitting out there tells me everything that I need to know. The most negative will take it as the teams management is either stupid or negligent. I think that is just silly.

I guess I don't necessarily agree that the deals being offered to players like Rollins and Latos are necessarily out of desperation as much as shrewd negotiation. I don't know that Latos couldn't have been signed for more, I just accept that $3 million is the most that Rick Hahn was willing to pay him. This is one of Rick Hahn's core competencies.

 

In regards to the Sox being connected to certain players, I understand what you are saying, but if players' agents are using my organization in an attempt to drive market behavior while I know my organization is not involved in serious negotiations, I would be at the very least, making some better attempts to quash that message. As we have seen, leading on your fanbase only results in a disappointed fanbase, despite some really good progress otherwise.

Edited February 23, 2016 by iamshack

[Dick Allen]

I guess I don't necessarily agree that the deals being offered to players like Rollins and Latos are necessarily out of desperation as much as shrewd negotiation. I don't know that Latos couldn't have been signed for more, I just accept that $3 million is the most that Rick Hahn was willing to pay him. This is one of Rick Hahn's core competencies.

 

In regards to the Sox being connected to certain players, I understand what you are saying, but if players' agents are using my organization in an attempt to drive market behavior while I know my organization is not involved in serious negotiations, I would be at the very least, making some better attempts to quash that message. As we have seen, leading on your fanbase only results in a disappointed fanbase, despite some really good progress otherwise.

First off, the fanbase would probably be more pissed the Sox didn't make an attempt at these guys than being an also ran. And letting teams "use" you does have it's advantages. It can drive prices up, and therefore reduce available funds for your competitors in regards to players you do go after. That said, I don't think it was BS the Sox were in on Gordon and Cespedes. I just think money available for them was not made available for lesser players. They have price for Fowler and Desmond. Rollins apparently was the alternative to Desmond, and they probably have an alternative to Fowler.

[iamshack]

First off, the fanbase would probably be more pissed the Sox didn't make an attempt at these guys than being an also ran. And letting teams "use" you does have it's advantages. It can drive prices up, and therefore reduce available funds for your competitors in regards to players you do go after. That said, I don't think it was BS the Sox were in on Gordon and Cespedes. I just think money available for them was not made available for lesser players. They have price for Fowler and Desmond. Rollins apparently was the alternative to Desmond, and they probably have an alternative to Fowler.

I don't disagree with any of this.

[Thad Bosley]

I know others will try to over simplify things, but I am used to that. It is one thing to get a specific expenditure for a top flight guy approved. It is quite another to get it for a second or third tier player. All you have to do is look a the players they are bringing in and the deals they are being brought in at to get that there are pretty obvious limitations they are looking at.

 

If they had easily available money to spend on these guys, they would have done it long ago.

 

I also think fans are conflagrating team statements, with rumors that don't necessarily reflect what the team is actually able to do. I have no doubt that a large chunk of the Sox being connected to players was being done on behalf of agents and players, and probably didn't reflect any real ability to have a fiscal interest in players. Not all rumors are created equal.

 

All the White Sox themselves have said is that they are still trying to improve this team. They have never said they were interested in specific players or specific budgets had been set. Some fans are seeing what they want to see, and that is the worst case scenario.

 

The fact that they are still looking, while useful players are sitting out there tells me everything that I need to know. The most negative will take it as the teams management is either stupid or negligent. I think that is just silly.

Well yeah they did, actually, at least after the fact. Consider Rick Hahn's comments on the first night of Soxfest when specifically asked about the three premium free agent outfielders:

 

“Let me make something really clear: There is absolutely no hardline, dogma, limit on contract terms with free agents. The reason we didn’t sign any of the hitters that thus far have signed elsewhere at the end of the day is not about contract term limitations. We had numerous conversations, with various parameters, various structures, right up until the day or the day before these players wound up choosing their ultimate destinations.”

 

I wouldn't call that fans seeing what they want to see at all.

[Dunt]

I think they would've paid for a top tier/elite OF, but in terms defined by the Sox. The contracts ultimately signed by those elite level players exceeded the Sox internally defined parameters.

 

Therein lies the fundamental problem with the White Sox organization. They "are in" on top tier free agents, but only on their terms, which in reality aren't realistic, so it's basically a bunch of lip service.

[Dick Allen]

Therein lies the fundamental problem with the White Sox organization. They "are in" on top tier free agents, but only on their terms, which in reality aren't realistic, so it's basically a bunch of lip service.

They signed Robertson, Melky, Abreu.....all teams have their limits. The Dodgers who supposedly have no limits let Greinke go. If the Sox gave Cespedes $150 million and he stunk up the joint, all the people who wanted him now would be calling the White Sox idiots.

[LDF]

I think they would've paid for a top tier/elite OF, but in terms defined by the Sox. The contracts ultimately signed by those elite level players exceeded the Sox internally defined parameters.

 

and you make an excellent point.

 

but the main point is, no one and i do mean no one knows what the sox resource is when it come to profit and lost. a lot of speculation and this include me as well.

 

according to known numbers and that may be a little out of the truth, the sox does have that money to use, if not, then the sox should really sell the team and cash in on the built in profit, before they have to go and get food stamps.

[southsider2k5]

Well yeah they did, actually, at least after the fact. Consider Rick Hahn's comments on the first night of Soxfest when specifically asked about the three premium free agent outfielders:

 

“Let me make something really clear: There is absolutely no hardline, dogma, limit on contract terms with free agents. The reason we didn’t sign any of the hitters that thus far have signed elsewhere at the end of the day is not about contract term limitations. We had numerous conversations, with various parameters, various structures, right up until the day or the day before these players wound up choosing their ultimate destinations.”

 

I wouldn't call that fans seeing what they want to see at all.

 

I don't see a specific player named.

[LDF]

First off, the fanbase would probably be more pissed the Sox didn't make an attempt at these guys than being an also ran. And letting teams "use" you does have it's advantages. It can drive prices up, and therefore reduce available funds for your competitors in regards to players you do go after. That said, I don't think it was BS the Sox were in on Gordon and Cespedes. I just think money available for them was not made available for lesser players. They have price for Fowler and Desmond. Rollins apparently was the alternative to Desmond, and they probably have an alternative to Fowler.

 

first, it is deceit of the owners if they were really not going to make an effort to get anyone, the next question should be, why did they, the sox FO do this???

 

soxfest comes to mind and trying to pacify the fans, getting the fans in the band wagon to purchase tickets.

 

second, if they did make funds available, then that in itself says that the money is there, why hold back???

[southsider2k5]

first, it is deceit of the owners if they were really not going to make an effort to get anyone, the next question should be, why did they, the sox FO do this???

 

soxfest comes to mind and trying to pacify the fans, getting the fans in the band wagon to purchase tickets.

 

second, if they did make funds available, then that in itself says that the money is there, why hold back???

 

The White Sox just were picked as the 4th best off season in MLB. They brought in Frazier, Lawrie and a new catching tandem to start with. They have talked to many other players. Saying they didn't make effort to get anyone is just 100% wrong.

[Chisoxfn]

First off, the fanbase would probably be more pissed the Sox didn't make an attempt at these guys than being an also ran. And letting teams "use" you does have it's advantages. It can drive prices up, and therefore reduce available funds for your competitors in regards to players you do go after. That said, I don't think it was BS the Sox were in on Gordon and Cespedes. I just think money available for them was not made available for lesser players. They have price for Fowler and Desmond. Rollins apparently was the alternative to Desmond, and they probably have an alternative to Fowler.

Excellent post. You are on a roll today DA.

[Dick Allen]

first, it is deceit of the owners if they were really not going to make an effort to get anyone, the next question should be, why did they, the sox FO do this???

 

soxfest comes to mind and trying to pacify the fans, getting the fans in the band wagon to purchase tickets.

 

second, if they did make funds available, then that in itself says that the money is there, why hold back???

Because different players make different impacts on teams and the box office. It's a big deal if the Sox sign Cespedes, not so much if they sign Fowler. Take Desmond. I'm sure the Sox wouldn't mind having Ian Desmond on their roster, but apparently not at the cost of a draft pick and the money difference for Jimmy Rollins. I am sure they wouldn't mind having Fowler on their team either, but apparently not at the price he is asking even though they could pay it without the checks bouncing.

 

 

I think one thing you are missing is there are a lot of teams that could use these guys. But Gordon and Cespedes liked where they were. Upton went to a team that doesn't care how much it costs. No one has signed Fowler. No one has signed Desmond. No one has signed Jackson. How are the White Sox cheap but not the rest of the league? Who have the Yankees signed this offseason?