Hahn's Comments Monday 2/22...

[LDF]

Because different players make different impacts on teams and the box office. It's a big deal if the Sox sign Cespedes, not so much if they sign Fowler. Take Desmond. I'm sure the Sox wouldn't mind having Ian Desmond on their roster, but apparently not at the cost of a draft pick and the money difference for Jimmy Rollins. I am sure they wouldn't mind having Fowler on their team either, but apparently not at the price he is asking even though they could pay it without the checks bouncing.

 

 

I think one thing you are missing is there are a lot of teams that could use these guys. But Gordon and Cespedes liked where they were. Upton went to a team that doesn't care how much it costs. No one has signed Fowler. No one has signed Desmond. No one has signed Jackson. How are the White Sox cheap but not the rest of the league? Who have the Yankees signed this offseason?

 

first, no one knows if the reason the sox walked away, if they were in on the desmond, was b/c of the draft pick. no know that.

 

second, you and others are keying on 2 or the 3 players, and saying phrases of, they will not have sign anywhere else. but it does come back to the money, b/c no one knows if the sox even made an offer. there were no chatter of that.

 

third, again if the funds were so tight, then sell the team

 

lastly using other teams esp the yanks as an example is a little weak, the yanks, thru there press has mention that they want to reduce there team salary. per sportac their team salary going into 2016 is at $220 million.

 

seeing you and other poster trying to justify the reluctance of the sox spending, this remind me of the phrase of Tilting at windmills'

[southsider2k5]

first, no one knows if the reason the sox walked away, if they were in on the desmond, was b/c of the draft pick. no know that.

 

second, you and others are keying on 2 or the 3 players, and saying phrases of, they will not have sign anywhere else. but it does come back to the money, b/c no one knows if the sox even made an offer. there were no chatter of that.

 

third, again if the funds were so tight, then sell the team

 

lastly using other teams esp the yanks as an example is a little weak, the yanks, thru there press has mention that they want to reduce there team salary. per sportac their team salary going into 2016 is at $220 million.

 

seeing you and other poster trying to justify the reluctance of the sox spending, this remind me of the phrase of Tilting at windmills'

 

lol. Using the Yankees payroll as a justification to what the White Sox should be spending? The Yankees also had 2.5 times the revenue the White Sox did.

[Thad Bosley]

I don't see a specific player named.

No, in his response to the Sox' stance on the "free agent outfielders", he didn't mention each of their names separately, but instead referred to them collectively as "these players", and obviously he was referring to Cespedes, Gordon and Upton. Unless you think he was talking about different players in the context of "these players" when he was specifically asked about the free agent outfielders who had signed at the time of Soxfest.

[LDF]

lol. Using the Yankees payroll as a justification to what the White Sox should be spending? The Yankees also had 2.5 times the revenue the White Sox did.

 

again you really do not read, i was responding to DA who, if you read his post, mention the Yanks, so in your ernest, for whatever reason, you mention my post, point your arrow somewhere else.

[Dick Allen]

first, no one knows if the reason the sox walked away, if they were in on the desmond, was b/c of the draft pick. no know that.

 

second, you and others are keying on 2 or the 3 players, and saying phrases of, they will not have sign anywhere else. but it does come back to the money, b/c no one knows if the sox even made an offer. there were no chatter of that.

 

third, again if the funds were so tight, then sell the team

 

lastly using other teams esp the yanks as an example is a little weak, the yanks, thru there press has mention that they want to reduce there team salary. per sportac their team salary going into 2016 is at $220 million.

 

seeing you and other poster trying to justify the reluctance of the sox spending, this remind me of the phrase of Tilting at windmills'

 

Funds must be tight league wide because of Cespedes, Gordon, Upton, Fowler, Desmond, and Jackson, the free agents most mentioned on this board, at this point, 3 of the 30 teams ponied up the cash to sign them. Are the White Sox the only other team that could use their services?

 

[LDF]

Funds must be tight league wide because of Cespedes, Gordon, Upton, Fowler, Desmond, and Jackson, the free agents most mentioned on this board, at this point, 3 of the 30 teams ponied up the cash to sign them. Are the White Sox the only other team that could use their services?

 

but are the other teams really on the verge to compete or think that are ready to compete, or maybe, the other teams already have caliber ready players in position to help the team, to take them to that elusive area of making the playoff.

 

it is all about each team philosophy and talent of the teams.

[southsider2k5]

No, in his response to the Sox' stance on the "free agent outfielders", he didn't mention each of their names separately, but instead referred to them collectively as "these players", and obviously he was referring to Cespedes, Gordon and Upton. Unless you think he was talking about different players in the context of "these players" when he was specifically asked about the free agent outfielders who had signed at the time of Soxfest.

 

You really expect Rick Hahn to come out and cry poor while White Sox fans STILL mock Kenny Williams for what he said over a decade ago? Rick Hahn has even flat out said in the past they won't tell the whole truth to fans. Here, actions (or lack of them) speak louder than words.

[Dick Allen]

I agree with the posters who think the Sox were making offers to the big 3 guys. But the question is how much would it have really cost the White Sox to sign them? It's not like ebay where another $1 would have been enough. And at what point does the price become too much?

 

We will see what they do about an OF. Obviously they had Rollins in the wings as the alternative to Desmond. He most likely will not be as good as Desmond, cost wise, I could see where it makes sense. As far as the OF goes, we will see. I think 2/$25 million for Fowler is a gamble they should take. Maybe they have an alternative that comes to light in a bit where you could see why they wouldn't do that.

 

 

It's like shopping on Stubhub. Your available funds are based on the quality available seats. Where you might be willing to spend $100 on certain seats, you won't spend $25 on others.

[LDF]

 

i would also like to add, it is really not the place of the fans to tell the owners how to use their money, but it is the place of the fans to relay to the owners of the fans displeasure of how the team is being run, and the only way to get their attention is thru not buying tickets.

 

affect them where it hurts, money.

[LDF]

I agree with the posters who think the Sox were making offers to the big 3 guys. But the question is how much would it have really cost the White Sox to sign them? It's not like ebay where another $1 would have been enough. And at what point does the price become too much?

 

We will see what they do about an OF. Obviously they had Rollins in the wings as the alternative to Desmond. He most likely will not be as good as Desmond, cost wise, I could see where it makes sense. As far as the OF goes, we will see. I think 2/$25 million for Fowler is a gamble they should take. Maybe they have an alternative that comes to light in a bit where you could see why they wouldn't do that.

 

 

It's like shopping on Stubhub. Your available funds are based on the quality available seats. Where you might be willing to spend $100 on certain seats, you won't spend $25 on others.

 

in retrospect, you are changing your tune, and i like that, thinking on the fly.

 

but again, it goes back to the premise of my discussions, they have the money and even you admitted so, by the example of shopping. trying to build a team on a penny budget.

[Dick Allen]

i would also like to add, it is really not the place of the fans to tell the owners how to use their money, but it is the place of the fans to relay to the owners of the fans displeasure of how the team is being run, and the only way to get their attention is thru not buying tickets.

 

affect them where it hurts, money.

Sox fans have been doing that for years.

[LDF]

Sox fans have been doing that for years.

 

good and has it worked????

[southsider2k5]

good and has it worked????

 

It sure has limited their options this off-season.

 

[Dick Allen]

in retrospect, you are changing your tune, and i like that, thinking on the fly.

 

but again, it goes back to the premise of my discussions, they have the money and even you admitted so, by the example of shopping. trying to build a team on a penny budget.

The less the upgrade, the less JR, you, or me would be willing to pay. It doesn't make one cheap. It doesn't mean the money is not there. You don't spend to spend. There is no question the Sox need to upgrade the OF in my mind. Cespedes would have been nice. Fowler would be nice. Jackson would be nice. It has to make sense. Locking yourself into a mistake causes problems down the road.

[Hatchetman]

Rick Hahn has even flat out said in the past they won't tell the whole truth to fans.

 

So was he being truthful?

 

[shakes]

first, no one knows if the reason the sox walked away, if they were in on the desmond, was b/c of the draft pick. no know that.

 

second, you and others are keying on 2 or the 3 players, and saying phrases of, they will not have sign anywhere else. but it does come back to the money, b/c no one knows if the sox even made an offer. there were no chatter of that.

 

third, again if the funds were so tight, then sell the team

 

lastly using other teams esp the yanks as an example is a little weak, the yanks, thru there press has mention that they want to reduce there team salary. per sportac their team salary going into 2016 is at $220 million.

 

seeing you and other poster trying to justify the reluctance of the sox spending, this remind me of the phrase of Tilting at windmills'

 

Why do you keep insisting the Sox should sell the team if funds are tight? Their projected opening day payroll is roughly $120 million. That's higher than 20 teams opening payrolls in 2015. Should teams like the Cubs, Mariners, Astros, Royals and Orioles have to sell their teams last year? Because their payrolls a year ago were less than the Sox will be this year.

 

And I'm not sure you understand the Tilting at Windmills idiom.

[caulfield12]

Because different players make different impacts on teams and the box office. It's a big deal if the Sox sign Cespedes, not so much if they sign Fowler. Take Desmond. I'm sure the Sox wouldn't mind having Ian Desmond on their roster, but apparently not at the cost of a draft pick and the money difference for Jimmy Rollins. I am sure they wouldn't mind having Fowler on their team either, but apparently not at the price he is asking even though they could pay it without the checks bouncing.

 

 

I think one thing you are missing is there are a lot of teams that could use these guys. But Gordon and Cespedes liked where they were. Upton went to a team that doesn't care how much it costs. No one has signed Fowler. No one has signed Desmond. No one has signed Jackson. How are the White Sox cheap but not the rest of the league? Who have the Yankees signed this offseason?

 

If they don't make a run at Harper, Machado, etc., after the 2018 season...everyone will be shocked.

 

While that's a long window to wait for a player, when you're going to make a $400-500 million investment in a player, you have to plan it out ahead of time and budget accordingly.

 

The Yankees might have gotten the steal of the offseason in Chapman because the charges were dropped, and they also have some pretty nice looking prospects coming up in their system.

 

Finally, I would imagine no team would be all-in with so much riding on the likes of Sabathia, Tanaka, Pineda, etc. They just have to cross their fingers all their veteran hitters like ARod, Beltran, Tex, McCann, Ellsbury, Gardner, don't all crumble at the same time or there won't be much they can do.

[caulfield12]

Why do you keep insisting the Sox should sell the team if funds are tight? Their projected opening day payroll is roughly $120 million. That's higher than 20 teams opening payrolls in 2015. Should teams like the Cubs, Mariners, Astros, Royals and Orioles have to sell their teams last year? Because their payrolls a year ago were less than the Sox will be this year.

 

And I'm not sure you understand the Tilting at Windmills idiom.

 

http://wtop.com/sports/2015/12/2015-final-baseball-payrolls/

 

The White Sox are 16th here at the end of 2015...almost exactly the mode. Part of the reason was not adding anything at the trade deadline or in August.

 

There are another six teams within $10 million or so just below the Sox. You also have the Mets, Pirates and Astros making the playoffs with lower payrolls.

 

Interestingly, that 16th-22nd/23rd spot (3rd quartile) and beyond in payroll has seen only one World Series team in the past 23 years.

 

 

 

[LDF]

The less the upgrade, the less JR, you, or me would be willing to pay. It doesn't make one cheap. It doesn't mean the money is not there. You don't spend to spend. There is no question the Sox need to upgrade the OF in my mind. Cespedes would have been nice. Fowler would be nice. Jackson would be nice. It has to make sense. Locking yourself into a mistake causes problems down the road.

excellent post, i really like it.

 

ref to bold one, you are correct in what you are leading up, while it doesn't make one cheap, then by default it make how he thinks and his priority with ref to winning a WS

 

ref to bold two, i 100% agree. mistakes, howver just b/c one make a mistakes, that should not stop them from making any other improvement, based on the idea of afraid of making mistakes. now making bad choices is another subject.

[LDF]

Why do you keep insisting the Sox should sell the team if funds are tight? Their projected opening day payroll is roughly $120 million. That's higher than 20 teams opening payrolls in 2015. Should teams like the Cubs, Mariners, Astros, Royals and Orioles have to sell their teams last year? Because their payrolls a year ago were less than the Sox will be this year.

 

And I'm not sure you understand the Tilting at Windmills idiom. ~~~~ yeah right

 

why are you including other teams, when they didn't have to go thru what the sox have done to improve the team in a short time???? that has nothing to do with anything i am talking about, bad attempt and wrong way of thinking.

 

i say sell the team if the team is too much for the owners to do what is needed to make this work. obvious they been having that recurring problem for yrs, to only show 1 WS in all that time, esp with the talent of the team of the 90's.

 

who knows, maybe it is sooo bad they are cutting coupons to help make ends meet.

 

they should sell and enjoy the built in equality .....

Edited February 23, 2016 by LDF

[caulfield12]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/royals...reds/ar-AAdwrBZ

 

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb/kansa...le29118175.html

 

Ben Zobrist made $7.5 million last year, so the Reds paid $2 million and KC $500,000 for the last two months of the season.

 

At any rate, I never said they didn't pick up any money last season, I said that it wasn't picked up for Zobrist and Cueto. If you want to argue about 20% vs. 80%, have at it. If you can find where I expressed this idea in relation to anyone besides those two, have at it.

 

As for Cueto, the Rabbit/Bucket of Suck who writes about their internal issues claimed the money coming from Cincy nearly covered that contract as well.

 

 

If you want to argue about financial subsidies and "actual" payrolls vs. what's reported, have at it.

Edited February 23, 2016 by caulfield12

[Panerista]

good and has it worked????

Because of profit sharing, no it has not. The MLB isn't like the Premier League where a fanbase can walk out causing an ownership team to apologize.

[LDF]

Because of profit sharing, no it has not. The MLB isn't like the Premier League where a fanbase can walk out causing an ownership team to apologize.

 

i will be brutally honest with you, i never thought of that nor knew of that. that just reinforce my opinion of how much the fans not attending the games has little to do with the ability of the owners to walk with a profit.

 

it is all about the money, not the game as he once said when he first bought the team.

[shakes]

why are you including other teams, when they didn't have to go thru what the sox have done to improve the team in a short time???? that has nothing to do with anything i am talking about, bad attempt and wrong way of thinking.

 

i say sell the team if the team is too much for the owners to do what is needed to make this work. obvious they been having that recurring problem for yrs, to only show 1 WS in all that time, esp with the talent of the team of the 90's.

 

who knows, maybe it is sooo bad they are cutting coupons to help make ends meet.

 

they should sell and enjoy the built in equality .....

 

Frankly, I'm not even sure what you are arguing, but I see you keep repeating the owners should sell the team because they are unable or unwilling to spend.

 

The JR is cheap argument is old, unoriginal, lazy, and simply not based in fact whatsoever. The Sox spend more on their major league roster than many teams that have better revenues and/or attendence.

 

If you want to argue they don't spend wisely or their model is antiquated I won't disagree. Although, I do think they are slowly headed in the right direction.

 

[LDF]

Frankly, I'm not even sure what you are arguing, but I see you keep repeating the owners should sell the team because they are unable or unwilling to spend.

 

The JR is cheap argument is old, unoriginal, lazy, and simply not based in fact whatsoever. The Sox spend more on their major league roster than many teams that have better revenues and/or attendence.

 

If you want to argue they don't spend wisely or their model is antiquated I won't disagree. Although, I do think they are slowly headed in the right direction.

 

when the team in on the bottom, and the only directions is up..... well obviously you are correct.

 

the owners are cheap, comment, yeah it is not original, but it still does not make it false.

 

and if you can't understand the sarcasm with out the green, then why even answer the post, if the owners do not want to spend the money and all they care about is money, sell the team, take and keep counting the money they will have made in the built in profit. b/c winning a WS is not their top priority. making an appearance of spending money on salary to deceive the fans is their main goal.