southsider2k5 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 https://twitter.com/loswhitesox/status/702557664115617793 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) Things that make ya go hummmmm Edit: does this new swing change his eyes so he doesn't swing at everything known to man? Edited February 24, 2016 by hi8is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Before he crouched, then extended then started his swing, it was a hitch that made him have to start early to catch up to fastballs. He's trying to eliminate the process of having to stand up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Looked like a weak grounder to 2b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 That swing and approach looked so nonchalant and lazy I can't even really take anything from it. Not being critical or anything I just dont think there is much to gather from that one swing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Hard to say much, other than the change in stance. He's taking soft hacks for now, like all the rest of them. Not using much leverage, which was one of his problems before, but that may be because it is early BP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 But can he get on base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Feb 24, 2016 -> 03:55 PM) But can he get on base? 3rd highest walk rate and 4th highest OBP on the team last year. If he could hit for the .175 - .200 ISO like a guy with his size and power should be he would be fine on offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Considering he has issues pulling the ball, shortening his pre-swing mechanics should be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 24, 2016 -> 04:00 PM) 3rd highest walk rate and 4th highest OBP on the team last year. If he could hit for the .175 - .200 ISO like a guy with his size and power should be he would be fine on offense. lol that just says how bad we were as a team last year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 24, 2016 -> 04:26 PM) WTF. That can't be right. Wow. Of players who would actually qualify for a batting title, Avi was third in BB% at 6% last year behind LaRoche and Adam Eaton. He was fourth in OBP behind Abreu, Eaton, and Melky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor13 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I really hope it helps Avi pull the ball more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (hi8is @ Feb 24, 2016 -> 02:41 PM) Things that make ya go hummmmm Edit: does this new swing change his eyes so he doesn't swing at everything known to man? Check out his walk rate. Compare it to say, oh, the "professional hitter." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 24, 2016 -> 04:26 PM) WTF. That can't be right. Wow. Nope. Just shows how terrible we truly were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 24, 2016 -> 05:00 PM) 3rd highest walk rate and 4th highest OBP on the team last year. If he could hit for the .175 - .200 ISO like a guy with his size and power should be he would be fine on offense. It's not about walks -- he swings and makes contact with terrible pitches. His O-Swing% (46.6%) was worst on the team by more than eight percentage points, and third worst in the entire MLB (league average was 31.3%). This causes him to make bad contact, which is a significant contributor to his curiously low power numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 08:58 AM) It's not about walks -- he swings and makes contact with terrible pitches. His O-Swing% (46.6%) was worst on the team by more than eight percentage points, and third worst in the entire MLB (league average was 31.3%). This causes him to make bad contact, which is a significant contributor to his curiously low power numbers. My point was that you could live with Avi's .257 AVG and .309 OBP if he were hitting for power. If his SLG was in the .450's his offense would not be the biggest problem. Of all the things that you can complain about Avi, his OBP and walk rate are not at the top of the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 10:03 AM) My point was that you could live with Avi's .257 AVG and .309 OBP if he were hitting for power. If his SLG was in the .450's his offense would not be the biggest problem. Of all the things that you can complain about Avi, his OBP and walk rate are not at the top of the list. That's true, but the factors that lead to his AVG/OBP/BB% are many of the same that make his SLG so bad. His approach/pitch recognition are to blame for nearly all of his issues at the plate. If you take the approach of extreme optimism, it's possible that a new stance/swing could give him a better look at the ball and allow him to react to the pitch quicker, but I think it's more likely that the problem is his eyes. Ironically, the fact that he was willing to try to take a few walks last year only strengthens my belief that he can't hit, because that removes "willingness to be patient" from the list of possible solutions. I know you're probably just frustrated with the negativity, and I've been a source of way more of it than usual across the entire forum. FWIW, I still really hope I'm wrong about Avi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 09:03 AM) My point was that you could live with Avi's .257 AVG and .309 OBP if he were hitting for power. If his SLG was in the .450's his offense would not be the biggest problem. Of all the things that you can complain about Avi, his OBP and walk rate are not at the top of the list. Yes, if Avi's slugging was 85 points higher we'd all be a lot happier with him. That doesn't make a .309 OBP good, it just means he has numerous other flaws. If he only had one flaw, the OBP, I'd be a big fan. What I think you're trying to say is that based on his build, hitting for more power is an easier path to improvement for Avi than taking more walks. This makes a little more sense because we know the power is in there, he just can't apply it. In contrast, the patience might just be a lost art to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (shysocks @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 09:22 AM) Yes, if Avi's slugging was 85 points higher we'd all be a lot happier with him. That doesn't make a .309 OBP good, it just means he has numerous other flaws. If he only had one flaw, the OBP, I'd be a big fan. What I think you're trying to say is that based on his build, hitting for more power is an easier path to improvement for Avi than taking more walks. This makes a little more sense because we know the power is in there, he just can't apply it. In contrast, the patience might just be a lost art to him. At least they are trying something different. A different stance made all the difference in the world to Nelson Cruz, a guy who had similar issues . The odds are against it, but you never know. The Sox are due for some things like this to go their way. Edited February 25, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 09:28 AM) At least they are trying something different. A different stance made all the difference in the world to Nelson Cruz, a guy who had similar issues . The odds are against it, but you never know. The Sox are due for some things like this to go their way. The other good sign is that he is willing to try, which means he is some level of coachable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Watching Avi in the cage made me wonder something you might be able to answer for me. I would have started a new thread but it's kind of random/silly and people would probably jump me. I was wondering ... during the season and spring training, especially baseball teams need men to throw BP, extra BP, so many BP pitches to hitters. How do teams get this accomplished? You'd think if coaches throw BP every single day to 40 players or more, their arms would fall off. Seriously ... who throws all this BP during spring traning and the regular season. I can't imagine 50 year old coaches' arms being able to throw 50 to 70 mph fastballs to hitters all day/every day without their arms falling off. Do teams employ 50 college kids to throw BP or ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosoxgo2005 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 26, 2016 -> 01:16 PM) Watching Avi in the cage made me wonder something you might be able to answer for me. I would have started a new thread but it's kind of random/silly and people would probably jump me. I was wondering ... during the season and spring training, especially baseball teams need men to throw BP, extra BP, so many BP pitches to hitters. How do teams get this accomplished? You'd think if coaches throw BP every single day to 40 players or more, their arms would fall off. Seriously ... who throws all this BP during spring traning and the regular season. I can't imagine 50 year old coaches' arms being able to throw 50 to 70 mph fastballs to hitters all day/every day without their arms falling off. Do teams employ 50 college kids to throw BP or ??? 70MPH is pushing it for BP... 50 is much more like it. I have coached many collegiate hitters and have thrown hours and hours and hours of BP... first few rounds of our winter workouts when I'd throw BP I'd feel it the next day, but that's because I'm old and fat. After a few days your arm gets used to it and you just experience general soreness. Once I would get my arm lose, I'd be fine. Never felt pain at all. That said, it might be a little different than throwing BP every day for 8 months or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Until he actually proves this works in game, I could honestly care less. How many times did we see Beckham change his stance in the offseason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) I'm surprised that probably 80% of this board wants to throw Avi out with the bath water now, when he's only in his age 24-25 season. Guys like Carlos Gomez or Aaron Rowand come to mind as guys who didn't develop until age 26 or 27. I realize we have a limited time to contend here and we should be trying to win now, but still, maybe management is gambling he can have a rebound season and put up some decent numbers. There's no guarantee any of the FA or trade options left are going to produce more than Avi this year, I suspect. Edited February 27, 2016 by JohnCangelosi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Feb 27, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) I'm surprised that probably 80% of this board wants to throw Avi out with the bath water now, when he's only in his age 24-25 season. Guys like Carlos Gomez or Aaron Rowand come to mind as guys who didn't develop until age 26 or 27. I realize we have a limited time to contend here and we should be trying to win now, but still, maybe management is gambling he can have a rebound season and put up some decent numbers. There's no guarantee any of the FA or trade options left are going to produce more than Avi this year, I suspect. I agree he can improve, but he needs to improve immensely as a offensive player, or pretty significantly offensively defensively, running the bases, to be a useful player. It can happen, but so far, experience doesn't seem to be an answer. If anything he appears to be going backwards or maintaining in most areas the more he plays. Maybe this new stance shakes things up. Maybe he figures out how to run down fly balls, and judge line drives, maybe he doesn't run into as many easy outs in the bases. But if you truly are going for it, there are too many maybes there. If they bring someone else in and Avi develops like we hope, they will find a spot for him. Guys who can play always play. It is pretty crazy to think the White Sox could possibly be good enough not to have room for a productive player. It is just that Avi needs to show that is what he is, Edited February 27, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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