Fowler Signs with Cubs

[Thad Bosley]

Picking out one contract from 20 years ago with no actual look at what revenues or anything else was is the only fallacy in this thread. It is quite literally making more stuff up to get mad about.

Lol - I wish I had a greater population of contracts such as the one Belle signed from which to cite. That contract from 20 years ago marked the last time our "big market team" acted like a big market team in the market. And since that contract signing, our Sox have managed to make a meager THREE appearances in the postseason in the 19 years since. I know such stats are inconvenient for you and make you mad when they are brought up, SS2K5, but they remain the facts.

 

Sox management doesn't compete the way a big market team ought, and the record sadly continues to reflect their lack of effort in that regard.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[Thad Bosley]

Which is exactly why this team shouldn't go throwing money around, just because.

Ah, so you admit that throwing money at second tier free agents such as the contracts given Cabrera and LaRoche were mistakes by Hahn. It appears you are right about that.

[Dick Allen]

Ah, so you admit that throwing money at second tier free agents such as the contracts given Cabrera and LaRoche were mistakes by Hahn. It appears you are right about that.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Without it, you like LaRoche, were hoping they would spend even more on Matt Kemp, and thought Abreu, Kemp, LaRoche, and Avi made a nice middle of the line up. Your complaining and constant critiquing is a joke. If they listened to you, the payroll would be higher and the team worse.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Thad Bosley]

How much Is available?

 

I agree they have some money to spend but that doesn't mean you spend it all. It has to make sense. Does giving Cespedes $30 million for 2016 and the option to walk away if he is good after one season , or be stuck paying him big money if he is a flop make sense? Does giving Alex Gordon at his age $100 million make sense? How how should they go with Fowler before it makes no sense?

 

Sometimes spending money makes you money. Sometimes spending it foolishly means you won't have it when you need it.

Great question, Dick Allen. When the team signed Belle to that record setting contract (at the time) for the combined $55M that it was, the team's net worth then was $144M. The team's net worth now is approximately $976M, and yet since that extraordinary explosion in wealth amassed by the ownership group, the largest contract they've handed out was the paltry (by comparison) one they gave to Abreu for $68M. That puts the Sox in the exclusive company of being the only team outside the friggin' A's and Pirates who have not offered a contract greater than $70M to anyone. Now it would be one thing if Reinsdorf & Co. could point to a track record of achievement and accomplishment to say "Hey, our way has worked!". But very sadly, they can do no such thing. The team hasn't won more than 90 games in a decade, and the last playoff appearance was eight years ago.

 

The owners have gotten massively rich over the years, while meanwhile, we the fans have been treated to the delight of watching the likes of Dunn, LaRoche, Rios, Beckham, Flowers, Gillespie, etc. trying to ply their trade, with no postseason appearances remotely in sight. Money was spent foolishly on many unsuccessful second and third tier type players during the past ten years (don't forget the likes of Linebrink, Teahen, and Keppinger!). Perhaps it would be better spent on fewer yet far more talented ones going forward. It's not an approach the team has tried in the past, but given the horrid results of the approaches they have tried, it might be one worth looking into.

[Thad Bosley]

Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Without it, you like LaRoche, were hoping they would spend even more on Matt Kemp, and thought Abreu, Kemp, LaRoche, and Avi made a nice middle of the line up. Your complaining is a joke. If they listened to you, the payroll would be higher and the team worse.

LMAO!

[Dick Allen]

LMAO!

Yes.LMAO. Your post from last year was dug up for all to see. The whiner got exposed.

[Thad Bosley]

Yes.LMAO. Your post from last year was dug up for all to see. The whiner got exposed.

LMAO! No one complains, whines, or moans more on this site than you. Not one person.

[LDF]

Great question, Dick Allen. When the team signed Belle to that record setting contract (at the time) for the combined $55M that it was, the team's net worth then was $144M. The team's net worth now is approximately $976M, and yet since that extraordinary explosion in wealth amassed by the ownership group, the largest contract they've handed out was the paltry (by comparison) one they gave to Abreu for $68M. That puts the Sox in the exclusive company of being the only team outside the friggin' A's and Pirates who have not offered a contract greater than $70M to anyone. Now it would be one thing if Reinsdorf & Co. could point to a track record of achievement and accomplishment to say "Hey, our way has worked!". But very sadly, they can do no such thing. The team hasn't won more than 90 games in a decade, and the last playoff appearance was eight years ago.

 

The owners have gotten massively rich over the years, while meanwhile, we the fans have been treated to the delight of watching the likes of Dunn, LaRoche, Rios, Beckham, Flowers, Gillespie, etc. trying to ply their trade, with no postseason appearances remotely in sight. Money was spent foolishly on many unsuccessful second and third tier type players during the past ten years (don't forget the likes of Linebrink, Teahen, and Keppinger!). Perhaps it would be better spent on fewer yet far more talented ones going forward. It's not an approach the team has tried in the past, but given the horrid results of the approaches they have tried, it might be one worth looking into.

 

i am not taking side but am replying to the post. this post was a very good one.

 

ref the bold, they spent money on ill advice or by poor management decision that was running the team and an idea of the way to do it. most gm or such would have been let go with this kind of success rate.

 

granted 1 WS but when was that?? how long can someone keep riding that moment of success??

[LDF]

Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Without it, you like LaRoche, were hoping they would spend even more on Matt Kemp, and thought Abreu, Kemp, LaRoche, and Avi made a nice middle of the line up. Your complaining and constant critiquing is a joke. If they listened to you, the payroll would be higher and the team worse.

ref the bold, aren't we all guilty of critiquing in some way the sox org???

 

just asking.

 

peace

[southsider2k5]

Lol - I wish I had a greater population of contracts such as the one Belle signed from which to cite. That contract from 20 years ago marked the last time our "big market team" acted like a big market team in the market. And since that contract signing, our Sox have managed to make a meager THREE appearances in the postseason in the 19 years since. I know such stats are inconvenient for you and make you mad when they are brought up, SS2K5, but they remain the facts.

 

Sox management doesn't compete the way a big market team ought, and the record sadly continues to reflect their lack of effort in that regard.

 

Oh wait, this post again. Where did I put my shocked face at?

[southsider2k5]

LMAO! No one complains, whines, or moans more on this site than you. Not one person.

 

The crown is all yours.

[Vance Law]

Ah, so you admit that throwing money at second tier free agents such as the contracts given Cabrera and LaRoche were mistakes by Hahn. It appears you are right about that.

 

Second or third tier free agents:

Jermaine Dye

AJ Pierzynski

Tadahito Iguchi

Orlando Hernandez

 

trash heap:

Bobby Jenks

[caulfield12]

Second or third tier free agents:

Jermaine Dye

AJ Pierzynski

Tadahito Iguchi

Orlando Hernandez

 

trash heap:

Bobby Jenks

 

You forgot Pods, Hermanson, Contreras, Vizcaino, etc.

 

F. Garcia is the only one we really paid a seemingly "high" price at the time of acquisition...and Politte was yet another scrap heap deal.

 

The problem is we've gone eight years without that combined amount of success that we had over those 18 months.

Edited February 28, 2016 by caulfield12

[LDF]

Oh wait, this post again. Where did I put my shocked face at?

 

as a mod once said to me, you can always press the ignore button.

[LDF]

You forgot Pods, Hermanson, Contreras, Vizcaino, etc.

 

F. Garcia is the only one we really paid a seemingly "high" price at the time of acquisition...and Politte was yet another scrap heap deal.

 

The problem is we've gone eight years without that combined amount of success that we had over those 18 months.

 

and how many failed, by failed, i mean help the sox get to the playoff, how many times the sox had a chance to pick up a viable fa, only to go the reclamation route. how many times did that worked, better yet, help get this team to the playoff.

[Dick Allen]

and how many failed, by failed, i mean help the sox get to the playoff, how many times the sox had a chance to pick up a viable fa, only to go the reclamation route. how many times did that worked, better yet, help get this team to the playoff.

Who should the Sox have signed this offseason, and how much should their limit have been to pay them?

[Bob Sacamano]

You forgot Pods, Hermanson, Contreras, Vizcaino, etc.

 

F. Garcia is the only one we really paid a seemingly "high" price at the time of acquisition...and Politte was yet another scrap heap deal.

 

The problem is we've gone eight years without that combined amount of success that we had over those 18 months.

 

Pods, Contreras and Vizcaino weren't second or third tier free agent signings for what it's worth.

[LDF]

Who should the Sox have signed this offseason, and how much should their limit have been to pay them?

 

this is a great question.

 

i never in favor of signing any of the top 4 elite fa's.

 

i wanted or hoped that the sox could have use or max the money they would have spent, to fix this team. i believe i have stated this several times before,i also hope that the sox would spend to the limit of 140-150, with the idea of 28+ mil coming off the books at the end of the yr. now the acct part of the owners budget is or will be done by the experts that they hire, accountants.

 

i had a hard time approving the idea of signing fowlers, but if the price was right, go for it. the idea was to improve this team. while at the same time let the farm improve as well. this would have been a steep price b/c of the comp pick and the yrs it would to make him happy. now part of this is hindsight, i thought something like 12-15 mil per for 3 yrs, and opt clause after 2yr.

 

i am also adamant on blowing thru the int'l signing and get as many prospects in the system for future use. the sox needs backup players for players with the idea of "what happen if they do not develop as hope"

 

now i use the reason of the horrible managing by the FO that got the sox in this state, esp in the draft picks. remember the draft picks are prospects and up to several yrs ago, this farm is vacant on elite prospects.

 

back to your question, i really like a jack as the final piece, i also would sign sminon-sp. those are the only 2 left that i would love to be on the team. so far hahn as done a great job of fixing this team, all i am saying is finish the job.

Edited February 28, 2016 by LDF

[caulfield12]

Pods, Contreras and Vizcaino weren't second or third tier free agent signings for what it's worth.

 

Contreras was, in the sense that we felt he was vastly undervalued...received a significant financial subsidy over a multi-year commitment and sold high on Loiaza as well. It worked exactly like a second tier signing for a first-tier talent.

 

Pods was coming off a disappointing sophomore season and they simply wanted to dump Lee's salary and redistribute it over multiple players.

 

 

Or you could just argue Politte and Contreras came from the scrap heap...since Cashman dumped him largely because of the Red Sox owning him in some key head to head match-ups in 2003 and 2004.

Edited February 28, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

this is a great question.

 

i never in favor of signing any of the top 4 elite fa's.

 

i wanted or hoped that the sox could have use or max the money they would have spent, to fix this team. i believe i have stated this several times before,i also hope that the sox would spend to the limit of 140-150, with the idea of 28+ mil coming off the books at the end of the yr. now the acct part of the owners budget is or will be done by the experts that they hire, accountants.

 

i had a hard time approving the idea of signing fowlers, but if the price was right, go for it. the idea was to improve this team. while at the same time let the farm improve as well. this would have been a steep price b/c of the comp pick and the yrs it would to make him happy. now part of this is hindsight, i thought something like 12-15 yrs for 3 yrs, and opt clause after 2yr.

 

i am also adamant on blowing thru the int'l signing and get as many prospects in the system for future use. the sox needs backup players for players with the idea of "what happen if they do not develop as hope"

 

now i use the reason of the horrible managing by the FO that got the sox in this state, esp in the draft picks. remember the draft picks are prospects and up to several yrs ago, this farm is vacant on elite prospects.

 

back to your question, i really like a jack as the final piece, i also would sign sminon-sp. those are the only 2 left that i would love to be on the team. so far hahn as done a great job of fixing this team, all i am saying is finish the job.

 

 

They're not going to add both Simon and Latos, but there is definitely an argument for Parra as well as Denard Span and of course Jackson still...none of those three came with draft pick compensation attached.

 

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Contreras was, in the sense that we felt he was vastly undervalued...received a significant financial subsidy over a multi-year commitment and sold high on Loiaza as well. It worked exactly like a second tier signing for a first-tier talent.

 

Pods was coming off a disappointing sophomore season and they simply wanted to dump Lee's salary and redistribute it over multiple players.

 

 

Or you could just argue Politte and Contreras came from the scrap heap...since Cashman dumped him largely because of the Red Sox owning him in some key head to head match-ups in 2003 and 2004.

 

They weren't free agents is my point.

[Thad Bosley]

The crown is all yours.

Unfortunately for you and Dick Allen, what the two of you constitute as "moaning, complaining and whining" is only those instances where someone posts a point of view different than that of yours, and in particular, if it's even remotely critical of Sox management (oh god forbid!). I'm sure if someone got on here and savagely ripped the fan base like you do all the time, you wouldn't count that as moaning, complaining or whining whatsoever. Although now that I mention it, we don't see fan base bashing messages too often around here, mostly just from you. Wonder why that is!!

[southsider2k5]

Unfortunately for you and Dick Allen, what the two of you constitute as "moaning, complaining and whining" is only those instances where someone posts a point of view different than that of yours, and in particular, if it's even remotely critical of Sox management (oh god forbid!). I'm sure if someone got on here and savagely ripped the fan base like you do all the time, you wouldn't count that as moaning, complaining or whining whatsoever. Although now that I mention it, we don't see fan base bashing messages too often around here, mostly just from you. Wonder why that is!!

 

That is actually not true. It is when it gets irrational, repetitive, and obsessive. Literally all you post is about Sox management being horrible. Honestly Dick Allen and I have had major differences over the the years, and nothing about his posting has even approached what you give. He can at least give rationale and linear thoughts, and be involved in more than one discussion.

[Thad Bosley]

That is actually not true. It is when it gets irrational, repetitive, and obsessive. Literally all you post is about Sox management being horrible. Honestly Dick Allen and I have had major differences over the the years, and nothing about his posting has even approached what you give. He can at least give rationale and linear thoughts, and be involved in more than one discussion.

Rational = evaluating actual results and facts, such as the Sox' record of performance.

 

Irrational = casting baseless aspersions about an entire fan base.

 

Irrational = making references to an organization's level of resources when you have no facts to support such references.

[LDF]

That is actually not true. It is when it gets irrational, repetitive, and obsessive. Literally all you post is about Sox management being horrible. Honestly Dick Allen and I have had major differences over the the years, and nothing about his posting has even approached what you give. He can at least give rationale and linear thoughts, and be involved in more than one discussion.

 

that is one thing that many can not see, what is or what will this site be if we are all followers. no one to have a different opinion that the mods / admin has??

 

this is not a negative rant against the admin / mods, but many are afraid to cross them and their opinions.

 

a healthy discussion is great, with a difference of opinions. esp if no cussing is used to express their opinions. it makes for great reading.