iWiN4PreP Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 https://twitter.com/Kelly_Crull/status/7029...1292800/video/1 Dexter returning to the cubs ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 12:13 PM) I don't give a f*** what the reason is, Sox fans have the right to be pissed off about this. Why? He wanted to play for the Cubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) Agree this was not an awful offseason but I don't agree "they made quite a few substantial improvements". Frazier should be substantial and hopefully Lawrie is a solid improvement. But the catchers , Latos, Rollins etc are all pretty questionable and you lost Shark and Alexei. I have posted several times that I feel these substantial improvements you refer to will weaken our infield defense compared to 2nd half of last season. I don't think they are still a wildcard contender but more like a .500 team They both will likely be better in 2016 but in 2015 Shark was replacement-level and Alexei was below replacement-level. His defense was not very good last year. It shouldn't be very difficult to get at least modest improvements from those spots in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) Why? He wanted to play for the Cubs It makes sense. Another great chance to make the playoffs and possibly the WS. Baltimore and White Sox are probably .500 teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 03:24 PM) They both will likely be better in 2016 but in 2015 Shark was replacement-level and Alexei was below replacement-level. His defense was not very good last year. It shouldn't be very difficult to get at least modest improvements from those spots in 2016. Just to note - by using the phrase "replacement level" you're indicating a stat that partially disagrees with your statement. Fangraphs clocked him at 2.7 WAR, which was exactly what he also put up in 2012 and 2013. B-R put him as worse than that I will also note - something I think is Fangraphs giving more of the credit for the terrible season to the defense and B-R saying the whole white sox pitching staff was weak last year (including Sale, FWIW). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 02:25 PM) It makes sense. Another great chance to make the playoffs and possibly the WS. Baltimore and White Sox are probably .500 teams. Wanted to play for the Cubs, wants to be a contender, Cubs are currently favorites to win a WS. I completely understand why the Sox had .0000001% chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 It's been said before, but the real frustration here is seeing Coghlan go to Oakland for peanuts, not Fowler signing elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 02:29 PM) Just to note - by using the phrase "replacement level" you're indicating a stat that partially disagrees with your statement. Fangraphs clocked him at 2.7 WAR, which was exactly what he also put up in 2012 and 2013. B-R put him as worse than that I will also note - something I think is Fangraphs giving more of the credit for the terrible season to the defense and B-R saying the whole white sox pitching staff was weak last year (including Sale, FWIW). That's great, but he led the league in earned runs allowed, hits, homers and the defense was the problem has a big arrow pointing to his own defense. The fact is, the Sox defense was fine when after the All Star break, he decided to suck. It wasn't on Melky, or Avi, or anyone else. It was Shark. 14-18 in his starts which pencils out to about 71 wins in a 162 game schedule. He was awful. WAR isn't the end all. If the choice was a pitcher who gave up fewer runs or a pitcher with the higher WAR, I'll take the lower WAR every time. Replacing his 2015 performance, despite his WAR number, shouldn't be a tall task. Edited February 25, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) Right, but the trade off is likely losing a prospect that is closer to the majors if they trade for an OF now, or in June/July. Yes, but I'd assume that Hahn targeting someone with multiple years of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (Knackattack @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 03:33 PM) It's been said before, but the real frustration here is seeing Coghlan go to Oakland for peanuts, not Fowler signing elsewhere. Agreed -- another great fit off the table. If there's reason to be upset, it's about the aggregate result of the offseason OF "hunt," not any individual player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 03:33 PM) That's great, but he led the league in runs allowed, and the defense was the problem has a big arrow pointing to his own defense. The fact is, the Sox defense was fine when after the All Star break, he decided to suck. It wasn't on Melky, or Avi, or anyone else. It was Shark. He was awful. WAR isn't the end all. If the choice was a pitcher who gave up fewer runs or a pitcher with the higher WAR, I'll take the lower WAR every time. The trick is...I kinda buy that, but at the same time there's information here. If Fangraphs is hanging too much on the defense, then that also means the other pitchers weren't as strong as fangraphs put them either. So, if you're going to say it's all on Samardzija and he's a below-replacement player, as is said there, then Sale was a 3.3 WAR pitcher by the same standard, no where near an ace level season. I think reality remains somewhere in-between. Yes, he got rocked in August, but at the same time, if a guy is pitching for a team with a terrible offense, if he gives up 5 runs or 9 runs you lose either way. At the same time, he also got the team a fair number of wins in June and September and definitely helped keep them in the "we're still in this!!" mode that Hahn was in at the end of July last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (Knackattack @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) It's been said before, but the real frustration here is seeing Coghlan go to Oakland for peanuts, not Fowler signing elsewhere. And how do we know he was offered to the Sox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) Agreed -- another great fit off the table. If there's reason to be upset, it's about the aggregate result of the offseason OF "hunt," not any individual player. If you're going to commit to another year of Avi in RF just say it. I've been behind every move they made this offseason, but Coghlan was a perfect platoon fit for RF. Cheap and pretty decent on defense too, I feel like they're just going to keep feeding BS to reporters about them "trying on outfielders" because they know everyone hates Avi and they don't want to admit to the fan base that they're gonna roll the dice with him for another year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 12:41 PM) And how do we know he was offered to the Sox? I would imagine that if they trade a quality player like Coghlan for Aaron freakin Brooks they must have tried many other places and not found much interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 David Kaplan @thekapman 2h2 hours ago I have to tell you, I never saw this coming but the Cubs move speaks to the absolute class person that @dexterfowler is. Phenomenal guy. I wonder what Adam Jones thinks about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 03:44 PM) David Kaplan @thekapman 2h2 hours ago I have to tell you, I never saw this coming but the Cubs move speaks to the absolute class person that @dexterfowler is. Phenomenal guy. I wonder what Adam Jones thinks about this What? How? This move wasn't about wanting to stay in Chicago, it was about wanting to re-enter the free agent market in a better year for more money. Which is fine. I don't blame him. But GMAFB about this making Fwoler a "class person." Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) The trick is...I kinda buy that, but at the same time there's information here. If Fangraphs is hanging too much on the defense, then that also means the other pitchers weren't as strong as fangraphs put them either. So, if you're going to say it's all on Samardzija and he's a below-replacement player, as is said there, then Sale was a 3.3 WAR pitcher by the same standard, no where near an ace level season. I think reality remains somewhere in-between. Yes, he got rocked in August, but at the same time, if a guy is pitching for a team with a terrible offense, if he gives up 5 runs or 9 runs you lose either way. At the same time, he also got the team a fair number of wins in June and September and definitely helped keep them in the "we're still in this!!" mode that Hahn was in at the end of July last year. The defense isn't the same for every pitcher, and since a guy like Sale strikes out more guys, he isn't as defense dependent. Sale didn't have his best year either, but sometimes WAR numbers don't add up. To think that Shark's 2015 performance was really worth close to $20 million on the open market is IMO positively preposterous Batman. He went on a real hot streak before he got awful. Another problem was his 1st inning woes. It took any wind out of the sails on several occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) What? How? This move wasn't about wanting to stay in Chicago, it was about wanting to re-enter the free agent market in a better year for more money. Which is fine. I don't blame him. But GMAFB about this making Fwoler a "class person." Lol Step one: Quit listening to Dave Kaplan. He is more of a fan than a commentator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) David Kaplan @thekapman 2h2 hours ago I have to tell you, I never saw this coming but the Cubs move speaks to the absolute class person that @dexterfowler is. Phenomenal guy. I wonder what Adam Jones thinks about this Hahaha, what a diaper full of s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 02:41 PM) And how do we know he was offered to the Sox? Plus why would that team on the northside (I hate seeing that effing banner on here) help out the White Sox in any way? They probably want the Sox to continue to wither and die on the vine. Edited February 25, 2016 by Chet Kincaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 03:47 PM) The defense isn't the same for every pitcher, and since a guy like Sale strikes out more guys, he isn't as defense dependent. Sale didn't have his best year either, but sometimes WAR numbers don't add up. To think that Shark's 2015 performance was really worth close to $20 million on the open market is IMO positively preposterous Batman. He went on a real hot streak before he got awful. Another problem was his 1st inning woes. It took any wind out of the sails on several occasions. But the specific statement I replied to said he was "below replacement". In other words, he was worth less than $0. I found that equally preposterous. Do you disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Knackattack @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 02:43 PM) I would imagine that if they trade a quality player like Coghlan for Aaron freakin Brooks they must have tried many other places and not found much interest. If Hahn had a guy like Coughlan and had to trade him for basically nothing, and his options were the Cubs or the Padres, and he picked the Cubs garbage over the Padres garbage, he would be crazy to do that. Coughlan, if he does do anything, has a far less chance to haunt Theo and the Cubs in Oakland than he does across town. Besides, we don't know what Hahn has in mind other than he does have something in mind. We should see what that is before being upset Chris Coughlan isn't a White Sox. There may be a time you should be upset he wasn't acquired for something useful, but not yet. Edited February 25, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) Wanted to play for the Cubs, wants to be a contender, Cubs are currently favorites to win a WS. I completely understand why the Sox had .0000001% chance. If the Sox or Orioles had offered him 3/$35 with an opt out after one season, he's not on the Cubs today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 25, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) If the Sox or Orioles had offered him 3/$35 with an opt out after one season, he's not on the Cubs today. Correct. But then you either have him for 1 year giving up the draft pick, or disaster happens and you are on the hook for 3. If there was no draft pick tied to him, he would have no problem getting an opt out after 1 year. Edited February 25, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Can the Cubs make Fowler a qualifying offer if he is bought out after 2016, or would the buyout make that against the rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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