Our Defense is Still Bad

[Dick Allen]

The White Sox did a good job upgrading their infield defense during the season in 2015. How did that translate wins-wise?

 

If they can be average, they will be fine if they score runs. One of the most exciting teams in the past 40 years was the 1977 Southside Hitmen. They may have had the one of the worst defensive teams ever assembled.

[LDF]

however, Micah only played there for ~2 months. He can absolutely be a lot worse than Sanchez, and frankly he should be expected to be a defensive downgrade from Sanchez because Sanchez was really good.

 

most definitely in everything you said,

 

ref to MJ-was so bad the pitchers had a somewhat mutiny in uniting to ask management to get him out of there.

 

Sanchez is the best, but the hit tools are not as good as Lawrie... so they are sacrificing defense for offense. i can live with that, but it is up to the players, meaning the pitchers.

[LDF]

The White Sox did a good job upgrading their infield defense during the season in 2015. How did that translate wins-wise?

 

If they can be average, they will be fine if they score runs. One of the most exciting teams in the past 40 years was the 1977 Southside Hitmen. They may have had the one of the worst defensive teams ever assembled.

 

man that was a great yr for sox baseball, growing up,

 

however the WS yr was great, esp the playoff, that was great.

[RockRaines]

We are clearly hoping the offensive upgrades offset any defensive upgrade.

[Dick Allen]

man that was a great yr for sox baseball, growing up,

 

however the WS yr was great, esp the playoff, that was great.

And there were several WS Champs that weren't exactly stellar defenders. Paulie was decent, but no range, Iguchi was average, Pods couldn't throw, Dye was Dye, AJ not so great. As long as the team makes the plays it's supposed to make...I think sabermetrics makes a bit too much out of most defensive upgrades. There are days OFs really don't have to make a play.

[ptatc]

however, Micah only played there for ~2 months. He can absolutely be a lot worse than Sanchez, and frankly he should be expected to be a defensive downgrade from Sanchez because Sanchez was really good.

All second baseman will be worse this year with the replay for "the neighborhood tag" on the pivot for the DP. I think this will help the less mobile second basemen as it will make the more agile ones come closer to the bag.

[greg775]

Finally a realistic look at our team instead of a rosy outlook when everybody is 0-0. Our defense assures us of no playoffs. The team would have to hit like crazy to make up for this defense.

The formula remains defense and a great bullpen and we have neither. If we wind up somehow outslugging every team in baseball, my bad. But the Sox hitting has not been great of late and as this thread suggests the defense is horrific.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Finally a realistic look at our team instead of a rosy outlook when everybody is 0-0. Our defense assures us of no playoffs. The team would have to hit like crazy to make up for this defense.

The formula remains defense and a great bullpen and we have neither. If we wind up somehow outslugging every team in baseball, my bad. But the Sox hitting has not been great of late and as this thread suggests the defense is horrific.

 

THE SEASON IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Quin]

Wasn't Eaton a Gold Glove finalist a few years ago?

[greg775]

Wasn't Eaton a Gold Glove finalist a few years ago?

His arm is a wet noodle isn't it?

[Quin]

His arm is a wet noodle isn't it?

 

Quite the opposite.

 

Just because he's a short, grindy player doesn't automatically mean a wet noodle.

[LDF]

And there were several WS Champs that weren't exactly stellar defenders. Paulie was decent, but no range, Iguchi was average, Pods couldn't throw, Dye was Dye, AJ not so great. As long as the team makes the plays it's supposed to make...I think sabermetrics makes a bit too much out of most defensive upgrades. There are days OFs really don't have to make a play.

 

nice pov, i like it.

 

i think there is a reliance on Sabe too much.

[Balta1701]

Wasn't Eaton a Gold Glove finalist a few years ago?

You are correct, in 2014 he was a gold glove finalist. UZR had him as a top 10 in the league defensive CF. In 2015 he was quite bad. Not terrible, but bad is an appropriate description - UZR had him as the 3rd worst qualifying CF in the big leagues.

 

It certainly remains possible for him to return to his 2014 form. However, counting on that to rescue a defense that is generally terrible around him seems dicey, especially when he's already dealing with injury rehab. But we'll see. Maybe there's a coaching issue there somewhere? He was benched for a day last year while not listening to the coaches regarding positioning.

[Quin]

You are correct, in 2014 he was a gold glove finalist. UZR had him as a top 10 in the league defensive CF. In 2015 he was quite bad. Not terrible, but bad is an appropriate description - UZR had him as the 3rd worst qualifying CF in the big leagues.

 

It certainly remains possible for him to return to his 2014 form. However, counting on that to rescue a defense that is generally terrible around him seems dicey, especially when he's already dealing with injury rehab. But we'll see. Maybe there's a coaching issue there somewhere? He was benched for a day last year while not listening to the coaches regarding positioning.

 

Oh, I'm not banking on it.

 

Austin Jackson still makes the most sense, because I feel like Eaton would excel in RF as he does have a strong arm.

[Balta1701]

Oh, I'm not banking on it.

 

Austin Jackson still makes the most sense, because I feel like Eaton would excel in RF as he does have a strong arm.

I'm also not sure at all how much I count on Eaton's arm strength right now since he's literally coming off throwing shoulder surgery and still taking it easy early in ST as a consequence.

[Baron]

Off the top of my head I think Eaton was responsible for 21 runs lost last year

[Eminor3rd]

The White Sox did a good job upgrading their infield defense during the season in 2015. How did that translate wins-wise?

 

If they can be average, they will be fine if they score runs. One of the most exciting teams in the past 40 years was the 1977 Southside Hitmen. They may have had the one of the worst defensive teams ever assembled.

 

 

And there were several WS Champs that weren't exactly stellar defenders. Paulie was decent, but no range, Iguchi was average, Pods couldn't throw, Dye was Dye, AJ not so great. As long as the team makes the plays it's supposed to make...I think sabermetrics makes a bit too much out of most defensive upgrades. There are days OFs really don't have to make a play.

 

It's certainly a surmountable flaw, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter. It would be incredibly refreshing if, just once, our team had a shot at being successful that didn't depend on literally EVERYTHING going as well as possible. I understand how difficult that actually is, and I'm along for the ride no matter what -- but it's really hard not to get frustrated when upgrades are freely available, but left sitting on a shelf.

[Eminor3rd]

You are correct, in 2014 he was a gold glove finalist. UZR had him as a top 10 in the league defensive CF. In 2015 he was quite bad. Not terrible, but bad is an appropriate description - UZR had him as the 3rd worst qualifying CF in the big leagues.

 

It certainly remains possible for him to return to his 2014 form. However, counting on that to rescue a defense that is generally terrible around him seems dicey, especially when he's already dealing with injury rehab. But we'll see. Maybe there's a coaching issue there somewhere? He was benched for a day last year while not listening to the coaches regarding positioning.

 

 

Oh, I'm not banking on it.

 

Austin Jackson still makes the most sense, because I feel like Eaton would excel in RF as he does have a strong arm.

 

I believe Eaton will be serviceable wherever we put him.

 

But damn, he would look so more "serviceable" flanking a true plus-CF then he would sandwiched between two statues.

[ptatc]

You are correct, in 2014 he was a gold glove finalist. UZR had him as a top 10 in the league defensive CF. In 2015 he was quite bad. Not terrible, but bad is an appropriate description - UZR had him as the 3rd worst qualifying CF in the big leagues.

 

It certainly remains possible for him to return to his 2014 form. However, counting on that to rescue a defense that is generally terrible around him seems dicey, especially when he's already dealing with injury rehab. But we'll see. Maybe there's a coaching issue there somewhere? He was benched for a day last year while not listening to the coaches regarding positioning.

His arm will be fine by the end of ST. It's a 3-4 month rehab and then building to playing strength.

[gosoxgo2005]

A huge reason why, without looking at stats, that Eaton had bad defensive numbers is because his 2015 April was ATROCIOUS defensively. Bad reads, poor angles, etc. Come May he was back to his above average self in CF. He was just so bad in April his numbers could never fully recover.

[caulfield12]

2015 you also had Crede, Rowand and Uribe that were all excellent or at least above-average...and that old adage of excellent/solid up the middle. Iguchi and Uribe as a combination were very effective. Buehrle was a perennial Gold Glover as well. Plus, AJ made up for some of his weaknesses with leadership and the strong relationship he had with Cooper and the starting staff all being on the same page.

 

With most of our defenders, we're just hoping against hope they can be average. You're also sitting your best defender in LaRoche 90% of the time.

Edited March 1, 2016 by caulfield12

[chitownsportsfan]

Any defense can be decent if you are good up the middle. Problem is, that ain't the Sox. Eaton I would say is average, has good range but mediocre instincts and a noodle arm. Sal could be good at SS but until he's out there on the 6th day in a row in the middle of July you can't really mark that down. Middle case he's an average defensive SS, much like Ramirez. Rollins? There's no way I can see him being average. Maybe "below average" if he can keep his body fresh but there's not much upside there.

 

As for 2B, well, Lawrie really doesn't grade out well there by either sabermetrics or scouting reports. Not ideal. Not a disaster like Micah but not ideal either. Catcher seems to really be the only position up the middle where you'd say they project above average.

 

Not good. The problems in the corners just add to all this but if they at least had solid defenders at C, SS, 2B and CF you could see how they get to middle of the pack overall. Given that they don't, I really don't see it unless Lawrie is better than advertised, Jose turns into a good 1B, and Avi goes from "disaster" to "passably mediocre".

[caulfield12]

Let's just hope and pray our two catchers stay healthy...or we'll be seeing a lot more of Hector Sanchez.

 

Which still might be better than supposed defensive fiend Corky Miller.

Edited March 1, 2016 by caulfield12

[bmags]

Noodle Arm Eaton can hit 100 mph

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-outfiel...-who-threw-100/

[chitownsportsfan]

Noodle Arm Eaton can hit 100 mph

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-outfiel...-who-threw-100/

 

lol, must have really torched the worms around second base! Eaton's problem with his arm seems to be throwing it mostly straight into the ground or wildly off target. If he could get a better launch angle maybe he could put that velocity to better use.